Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis part 2 - Ireland

Jason

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You are conflating short sharp lockdowns with the bumbled politically motivated populist lockdowns we've had in the west. Short lockdowns work to stop healthcare collapse - longer stricter lockdowns were not advocated by anyone as a potential solution to this mess, and they don't work in non-authoritarian countries due to rising social disobedience.

I think you are spot on here,

UK had months of lockdown, including our “freedom day” delayed for no reason which now seems reasonable. Months of lockdown has caused harm that we struggle to measure for very little benefit. Unfortunately as we go into the autumn there will be loud calls for another lockdown. Lockdown is now associated by many with not going to work but being paid. A very big group in UK desire lockdown. If we have a new variant which avoids the vaccines the demand for months of lockdown will become very loud indeed. The scenario of another seven month lockdown is I think not very likely but certainly possible, and it would be because of political expedience not virus control.

The endless comparison of Sweden with Norway, Finland and Denmark is not helpful. Sweden has in Stockholm and Gothenburg some of the highest population density in Europe. There is nothing remotely comparable in Norway and Finland, and Copenhagen (while a big city) cannot match the density. Better to compare Sweden with UK, Belgium, and indeed Spain and Italy. It is the dense urban areas with multi-occupant homes that are the big non-hospital spreaders of coronavirus.
 

seventiesdemon

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What is one word the young now understand. Lockdown. Our generation, Internet. Before us it was Buzz bomb, before them it was, Car, before them it was Railroad......................Peace has always been a word we understand, but rarely see come into long term practice.

Wrong thread? Oh well :)
 

g0nz0

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The endless comparison of Sweden with Norway, Finland and Denmark is not helpful. Sweden has in Stockholm and Gothenburg some of the highest population density in Europe. There is nothing remotely comparable in Norway and Finland, and Copenhagen (while a big city) cannot match the density. Better to compare Sweden with UK, Belgium, and indeed Spain and Italy. It is the dense urban areas with multi-occupant homes that are the big non-hospital spreaders of coronavirus.

So yes and no. It is reasonably difficult to an apples-vs-apples comparison, without controlling for confounding factors like population density, cultural and societal differences, age demographics, climate, ...

The reason that a comparison with Spain and Italy is not useful is primarily cultural. In Italy especially, there is much greater prevalance of elderly living with the young. You simply don't see this in Sweden, so culturally they are more similar to their Scandanavian cousins.

I specifically called out population density as a concern when comparing the Nordic countries. Likewise, when comparing Sweden against the UK, France, the US, the EU average, I called out the problem of differences in culture.

The pertinent point is that under no metric did Sweden do especially well, and they may well have long term health consequences stored up in the case of long hauliers. So did Sweden get it right? I don't think so...
 

dandelion

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The pertinent point is that under no metric did Sweden do especially well,
Surely the point is its polocy of mimimum restrictions did no worse than those with maximum restriction.

I specifically called out population density as a concern when comparing the Nordic countries.
It doesnt matter if a nation has millions of miles of empty countrside. People mostly live in towns. For covid comparison purposes the right sort of metric is something like the average number of contacts each person has in their daily lives. A country with one big city where most live plus lots of endless nothing could score very high.

I called out the problem of differences in culture.
But then we rerturn to the thorny question of just how much a mask really helps. Or habitual kissing on meeting, shaking hands, whatever. I dont think we have any real answers to that?
 

Jason

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But then we rerturn to the thorny question of just how much a mask really helps. Or habitual kissing on meeting, shaking hands, whatever. I dont think we have any real answers to that?

WHO collect the evidence for masks in a pdf. There’s pages of it, but it is exceptionally luke warm. There’s no evidence that non-surgical masks on a healthy community achieves anything. There’s a disconnect with their headline page for the masses where they say be good and wear a mask, and what they themselves say the evidence says.
 

Jason

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But then we rerturn to the thorny question of just how much a mask really helps. Or habitual kissing on meeting, shaking hands, whatever. I dont think we have any real answers to that?

WHO collect the evidence for masks in a pdf. There’s pages of it, but it is exceptionally luke warm. There’s no evidence that non-surgical masks on a healthy community achieves anything. There’s a disconnect with their headline page for the masses where they say be good and wear a mask, and what they themselves say the evidence says.
 

g0nz0

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Jason

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Boris Johnson broke ministerial code jetting to the Hartlepool by-election on taxpayer funds, Conservative Party spending return suggests

The level of self-entitlement, grifting and sucking off the tit of the state is astonishing.

My bet is that it doesn't matter to the electorate, and will continue as defacto Tory policy ad infinitum. Suck it for every last drop.


"The Prime Minister visited Teesside on official Government business, meeting workers to coincide with an increase in the national living wage. This was followed by a short political visit, as permitted by the Ministerial Code. All relevant costs have been correctly accounted for and appropriately proportioned. At all times Government rules and electoral requirements have been followed in relation to Ministerial visits."


The statement indicates that there has been no breach of the ministerial code. Johnson has acted entirely within the rules. The rules are voluminous, most have existed for a long time, and are not set by the governing party. Curiously for the Conservative Party to have paid would have been a direct breach of the ministerial code as it stands today as it would be a political party paying for government business, which is a clear conflict.
 

g0nz0

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"The Prime Minister visited Teesside on official Government business, meeting workers to coincide with an increase in the national living wage. This was followed by a short political visit, as permitted by the Ministerial Code. All relevant costs have been correctly accounted for and appropriately proportioned. At all times Government rules and electoral requirements have been followed in relation to Ministerial visits."


The statement indicates that there has been no breach of the ministerial code. Johnson has acted entirely within the rules. The rules are voluminous, most have existed for a long time, and are not set by the governing party. Curiously for the Conservative Party to have paid would have been a direct breach of the ministerial code as it stands today as it would be a political party paying for government business, which is a clear conflict.

Pull the other one, there are bells on it.

About as compliant (after the fact) as Boris' home decor or takeout bills.

A self entitlement towards self enrichment runs deep amongst those gangsters.