Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis part 2 - Ireland

rbkwp

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Cameron

butcher dont forget swarm
most educated/well spoken/well chosen choice of words Brit award for 2015
thus spakes the mouse who hides behind the Os apron strings,the Eu proper, and the crap NATO/UN

'that is the answer to brinjginjg peace to the retgiojn
what a lot of shit
hes solved the Syrian war with his words huh'
after 5 years hes worked it out duh'
 

Jason

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This is the track record of dealing with Islamic terrorism:
Afghanistan - direct intervention - disaster
Iraq - direct intervention - disaster
Libya - no fly zone - disaster
Syria - no intervention - disaster
Eritrea - no intervention - disaster
Somalia - no intervention - disaster
Yemen - let Saudi do it - disaster

Somewhat more positive has been the French action in Mali. Russia responded to the threat in some of the southern Russian republics by massive and brutal intervention (eg Chechnya) which has ensured that there is stability though the process is ghastly. It is possible that Russia plans to do the same in Syria.

There is a view that if more nations had been prepared to act in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya - and indeed in Syria - there may have been a better result. Again and again it is USA with support from UK and France, and perhaps some purely token support from elsewhere.
 

Perados

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I still don't get it that you think there is no intervention in Syria... to deliver weapons, educate warrior and fly attacks is definitely NOT "no intervention"

In Afghanistan the whole NATO was/is involved, what more nations you would like to have invaded them? And for several years Germany leads the Afghanistan mission... to say only USA, Britain and France do the job is wrong again. - and if Britain/USA desites to run an illegal war, you don't have to wonder that no one supports you

The attack on Iraq was sinply wrong and NO INTERVENTION definitely would have been better. - this would have prevented the rise of IS and we wouldn't have the problems in Syria.

Somalia/Eritrea is a result of westeen policy. To say there is no intervention is only correct in the case of military intervention.
To improve the situation in Somalia, the EU, China and other nations should stop fishing in their territory.

Yes, Russia has a bit of peace in Chechnya. But after a brutal war and installing a corrupt and brutal dictator... a better solution could have been more autonomy or even independence.
To take Russia as a role model is stupid... even more if you think about what they do in east Ukraine. (The total opposite than in Chechnya)

And there is no solution in Mali... what France does is to support the status quo, that has caused all the problems. Instead to offer military support to Mali, they should make sure that the Mali government guarantees equal standard of living. This really would undermine the support for Boko Haram.


The conclusion of your list is: NO INTERVENTION WORKED OUT WELL (and what you call "no intervention" actually was an intervention)

We have to change our policy and economy. That's the only thing that will improve the situation.
 

Perados

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_85892045_63761db6-abe6-496d-b623-1878da3d1568.jpg

Labour's Denis Healey dies at 98
Looks like he had a german brother
2012_Theo_Waigel.jpg


And a Russia
48523_1.jpg
 
Last edited:

rbkwp

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This is the track record of dealing with Islamic terrorism:
Afghanistan - direct intervention - disaster
Iraq - direct intervention - disaster
Libya - no fly zone - disaster
Syria - no intervention - disaster
Eritrea - no intervention - disaster
Somalia - no intervention - disaster
Yemen - let Saudi do it - disaster




England RWC out of the game on there home soil
southern hemisphere reigns
Wills George and Harry be a lil dissapointed huh
aawwww .. to bad never mind, courtesy of Au wallabies, not to mention Wales last week sigh'

dont need n warring disasters for this to take place
just a possible majority of British conservatives in the team ..
i.e. losers' / let the side down!


haha
yes he was infamous for his bushy eyebrows pera
but he never behaved like Cameron aka Breznev duh ha'
 

eurotop40

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Yes, and we need the benefit system to address this.

In my working life I've had five major moves, plus stints abroad. I move for work. We need the benefit system to abandon the idea that people need only look for work in their home area and give people the push to move where the jobs are.

This is one of the EU pillars.
 

Jason

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Cameron has told a television interview that he might back Brexit. He hedged extensively and there are plenty saying he will back LEAVE whatever, but this is a pleasing bit of flexibility.

A poll of Conservative party members shows:
STAY 30%
LEAVE 66%
(Taking out the "don't knows" this is 69% for LEAVE.)

We seem to have a series of EU bad-news stories forthcoming. I'm back on my idea from years ago that ultimately Cameron will support LEAVE.
 

rbkwp

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Excuse me RB, the rest of us are still at the party.


haha
btw
i placed 10 to win on Wales for the final
it was paying either 12/17? ha bit o fun
ya never know, esp iof they beat Au next week waahooooo ..
 

Perados

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As it looks like do parts of the german expect 1.5 million refugees in 2015. And if the number of arriving refugees stays this high (nearly 10,000 a day), 1.5 million is very likely...

In the meantime it looks like the EU has found a "solution" for their refugee crisis. - but a quota isn't the solution.

South Sudan, Sudan and Eritrea get payed millions and their police gets educated, to stop refugees. Just like Mubarak and Gaddafi, the EU use Eritrea, Sudan and south Sudan to guarantee that refugees from Africa doesn't make it to the Mediterranean Sea.
Again doesn't it matter how these dictatorships and military regimes stop the refugees, as long as they do...

Also the EU pays turkey to build 3 more refugee camps for another 2,000,000 refugees and to increase their border controls at the Greek-Turkey border.

Ignore the cause and ignore how badthey get treated elsewhere, as long as they don't make it to Europe.

Yes, the EU and its members really deswrved the peace Nobel prize
 

Jason

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Yes, the EU and its members really deserved the peace Nobel prize

Sarcasm noted.

In my view we in comfortable western nations need to show a bit of consistency in our policy overseas. Right now we have in Saudi Arabia the case of Ali al-Nimr, sentenced to execution by beheading followed by crucifixion of his dead body for public display. There is so much wrong with this that I hardly know where to start. He was 17 when the alleged crime was committed (so a child) and there's actually real doubt about whether he committed it. Why aren't we being consistent in our opposition to wrong? This proposed execution is an evil act.

If we are to take on the evil acts of ISIS we have to take on evil acts elsewhere in the Arab world. I really don't think we can pick and chose, saying we oppose ISIS burying people alive but tolerate Saudi beheading and crucifixion and (in the case of Russia) support the Assad regime. We have to say the same thing all the time.

I don't think there is a quick solution. However I do think the way forward is to create safe zones in or close to areas of conflict and get people back to these. Syria will not rebuild if the best of a generation have moved to Germany. I've sympathy with the idea of support for refugee camps in Turkey. I think this is the best of the bad options. More problematic are agreements with Sudan, South Sudan and Eritrea, though here the detail matters a lot.
 

Jason

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Excuse me RB, the rest of us are still at the party.

I'm feeling very Welsh today. Sosban fach yn berwi ar y tân! Cymru am byth! I could probably even manage a chorus of Men of Harlech! By the way does anyone really think Owain Glyndwr would have supported rule of Wales from Brussels?
 

Perados

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Sarcasm noted.

In my view we in comfortable western nations need to show a bit of consistency in our policy overseas. Right now we have in Saudi Arabia the case of Ali al-Nimr, sentenced to execution by beheading followed by crucifixion of his dead body for public display. There is so much wrong with this that I hardly know where to start. He was 17 when the alleged crime was committed (so a child) and there's actually real doubt about whether he committed it. Why aren't we being consistent in our opposition to wrong? This proposed execution is an evil act.

If we are to take on the evil acts of ISIS we have to take on evil acts elsewhere in the Arab world. I really don't think we can pick and chose, saying we oppose ISIS burying people alive but tolerate Saudi beheading and crucifixion and (in the case of Russia) support the Assad regime. We have to say the same thing all the time.
before we name the crime done in other areas, we should name the crime done by ourselves.

As it looks like bombed the American airforce a Hospital in Kundus, because they thought Taliban were hiding in it. (At least that is what the Afghanistan government repeats all the time to justify the attack) - but to attack a Hospital, no matter what the reason is, is a war crime.

To support dictatorships and deliver weapobs to a regime like Saudi Arabia is just a crime as what these dictatorships do, because we guarantee to keep on ruling.

To run a war because we want to "spread democracy" is a crime as well.

To pay dictatorships, to make sure that refugees can't demand their right of protection is a crime as well.

If a state isn't able to protect it's territory, it's a crime if we send our ships to steal their recourses.

If we force underdeveloped areas to accept our substituted products, something that will distroy huge parts of their economy, is this a crime.


Yes, the west is in a very comfortable zone... and our hypocrisy and feeling of superiority let us ignore how much goes wrong in our own countries.

Every kind of murder as punishment is a crime, no matter how you do it.
I don't think there is a quick solution. However I do think the way forward is to create safe zones in or close to areas of conflict and get people back to these. Syria will not rebuild if the best of a generation have moved to Germany. I've sympathy with the idea of support for refugee camps in Turkey. I think this is the best of the bad options.
Most children will grow up without a proper education, most adults will have to stay in these camps without anything to do.

Non of them will be able to rebuild Syria.
- A whole new generation without an education is a massive burden.
- Can you imagen what it will do to you if you have to stay in a camp without anything to do? A huge number of these adults will have to suffer under depressions and many wont be able to do the work they did before the war..

Yes, after the war Syria will need the elite to rebuild their nation. But it has to be an elite able to work.

In Germany and most parts of Europe they have the chance to keep on working and even improve their skills.
Currently many German cities run "refugee universities" and offer them a free education.
Companies hire refugees and improve their skills or educate them.

The final step has to be to encouragethem to return to Syria as soon as their skills are needed. Even if it would be on the disadvantage for Germany.
Realistic is that a large part will stay in Germany, but as long as some return to Syria it's a benefit for Syria. Simply because of the then stronger connection between Germany and Syria.
Statistics show that, with increasing migration does the economical connection increase as well and both benefit from it.
More problematic are agreements with Sudan, South Sudan and Eritrea, though here the detail matters a lot.
I don't think details matter.
Even if the EU would demands that these nations treat refugees with respect, it's unlikely that they will.
If they treat their own people bad, they won't treat refugees better.
And if they torture refugees, just like Gaddafi did, the EU won't care. Because if the EU would care, we would gad to stop the support and accept that refugees come to Europe.

At the end do must European leaders think (maybe different to their population) that a few thousand tortured refugees are better than a few hundred thousand refugees arriving to Europe. (Talking about crimes)
 

Jason

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The "refugee university" idea is a good one.

After the Iraq war there was no money at all spent on supporting universities in Iraq. Iraq had the structures (building, teachers) but needed up-dating. Required investment wasn't huge, but it just didn't happen.

Supporting universities in Syria, Iraq and elsewhere is possible, even in refugee camps. If Gaza is regarded as a refugee camp, then there is an example of a refugee camp with half a dozen universities.
 

Jason

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I guess there are several ways you can call Gaza... but refugee camp never crossed my mind.

The official designation is that Gaza is eight refugee camps with a population of around 1.2m. There a further 0.6m living in Gaza outside of areas designated as refugee camps. About 2/3 of the population of Gaza are technically refugees. The camps have existed since 1948 and Gaza is therefore the longest enduring refugee camp.

We are presumably going to see new Gaza-type entities established in Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, perhaps elsewhere. We need a body of law to be developed to deal with the problems that will arise. The problems of Israel and Palestine demonstrate the need for a new body of law.
 

rbkwp

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Snowden
the so called American tritor, the BBC interviwed
re GCHQs dodgy behaviour if you ask me ..

Cams the man
is the UK beating the US at something, or Russia for those who may think i am leaving them out ha'

Inside the world's largest weapons show


Published on Oct 5, 2015
Every 2 years, the UK hosts the world's largest arms fair - the four-day Defence and Security Equipment International (DSEI) show. The latest one was in September.It's mainly to promote the British arms industry. But attendees include manufacturers from around the world, who come to make mammoth deals.We sent British journalist Joe Mellor to see what's on offer and who's buying. Read Al Jazeera America's recent report on the global arms trade: