Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis part 2 - Ireland

[eurotop40]

Yes it is shocking.

First of all there's the issue of a foreign head of state getting directly involved in a UK referendum. This crosses a line. Usually the UK would respond with some form of diplomatic protest. For example when France's President Hollande talked down the UK economy we lodged a protest. We should be doing the same now - we should call the American ambassador to Downing Street and Cameron should tell him that America's action is unacceptable.

Then there's the issue of Obama telling the UK we would be "back of the queue". There's all sorts of problems with the idea that the US would consider treating its close ally in this manner, as well as the view that it is bluster. UK trade with the US is almost as large as that of the rest of the EU combined. Additionally it is much easier for two nations to agree a treaty than twenty-nine (right now the EU-Canada trade deal is being held up by Romania that is demanding a change in policy on migration of Romanians to Canada).

However the overwhelming problem is that Americans don't say "back of the queue". They say "last in line". It seems very likely that the phrase comes from a Brit. Obama has asked a Brit "what do you want me to say?"

Obama is POTUS. He acts for the good of the USA. Getting the USA involved in this spat is not good for the USA. He has done it as part of a deal. And that's where it gets worse. The chatter is that there's been discussion of UK troops on the ground in Libya, and chatter that Cameron is going to make this happen.

Special relationship à la carte (as usual for the UK, in spite of their cuisine).

 

[TinyPrincess]

The world is suffering from everyone paying too much tax.

...

If every last loop-hole is closed down then the rich will stop working.

Have to disagree. The world is suffering from too many paying too little tax. And the rich wouldn't stop working - then they wouldn't be rich for long.

Plenty of loopholes unless they are made public - in Sweden tax papers are public. If this was standard all over loopholes were impossible.


You could even make a system with no taxes for most - only taxing the super rich. It would work - even though we always have to listen to the cry babies. You can only become rich if you have people working for you.

I wouldn't stop working or generating jobs - no matter how hard I would be taxed. If I was taxed 90% I would still be able to live life in luxury - and I'm not super rich.

 

[Perados]

Obama said some VERY interesting things... and I wonder if Jason would react in the same way, if Obama would have supported a Brexit.

The most interesting part was:
The relation between Beitain and the USA isn't good/special enough to replace a EU membership...

Well, it looks like Jason's preferred anglosphere isn't really existing.

And I wonder, is London's mayor a little racist? He made statements like: Obama's african routs are the reason why he tries to establish an anti british mood in Europe...
IS THIS GUY SERIOUS?

 

[Perados]

Has Obama the right to talk about british policy in Britain?
YES HE HAS

Just as we demand from Merkel to talk IN Turkey about media freedom, or that Hollande will talk about Crimea IN Russia, or that Cameron will talk about human rights IN China...
Has Obama the right to talk about a Brexit IN Britain.
PERIOD

 

[marinera]

Have to disagree. The world is suffering from too many paying too little tax. And the rich wouldn't stop working - then they wouldn't be rich for long.
.....

Adding some real facts: the highest growth of GDP per capita in USA happened when the marginal rate of income tax was 90%+.

 

[marinera]

If Obama wants to give lessons to EU, he should start taking 1 millions of refugees per year at least. USA is as, if not more, guilty of the causes of immigration crisis.

 

[Perados]

UK trade with the US is almost as large as that of the rest of the EU combined.

I wonder where you get your data at?

Germany is by far your largest trading partner (world wide) and even if we exclude Germany, the trade with your number 2 and 3 of EU trade partner (Netherlands and France) still dwarf the trade with the USA...


And the other way around it's just as marginally. The British part of the EU USA trade is just around 10%...


So, where are your "nearly 50%"?????

Additionally it is much easier for two nations to agree a treaty than twenty-nine (right now the EU-Canada trade deal is being held up by Romania that is demanding a change in policy on migration of Romanians to Canada).

Thank god for Romania...
CETA and TTIP aren't good for the people, nor for large parts of the economy.


But yes, while the EU trade is around 10% of the US economy, the British trade is just under 1% of the US trade.
I bet as a single nation, Britain would have a way better position to negotiate with the USA

 

[Jason]

I've just had an "I don't believe it!" moment!

Theresa May is the UK's home secretary. She supports the Remain campaign in the EU referendum. However she's just made a speech in which she has said that the UK should leave the European Court of Human Rights. This is dynamite!

The ECHR is of course not an EU institution. However every EU nation is a member, and there is a move to see the EU itself become part of the ECHR. Additionally the ECJ (European Court of Justice) gives special significance to ECHR rulings. Technically it is possible to be part of the EU without being part of the ECHR, but in practical terms it is all but impossible. Additionally there is a real point of conflict around the EU directly joining ECHR if the UK is not a member.

What May seems to be saying is that the UK should be within the EU but outside the ECHR, which presumably means some limitations on the ECJ also. In effect absolutely every EU decision large and small would need some form of special treatment for the UK.

May also plans to block membership of Turkey and other applicant nations.

It could be that May really is presenting a vision of a reformed Europe. It is a Europe where the UK will have special status for absolutely everything because the court system is different, and the UK will be using the veto. It's actually an attractive vision. This is what we all thought Cameron was going to negotiate.

As far as I can see all the May vision needs is government approval. I don't think a direct vote in parliament is needed.

 

[marinera]

That would create even more mess.

 

[rbkwp]

Has Obama the right to talk about british policy in Britain?
YES HE HAS



NO NOT AT ALL
i think
NONE of them have that 'right' para, as politicians they 'think' they do, but i believe they dont

Obama thinks he has the BS authortity of president of the world,he abused that BS authortity that he doesent have anyway

Merkel thinks she is the Eus top dog, so do the others you mention
they know what power they wield, and they abuse it when it suits them
and then 'influence' comes into play,when someone of Obamas standing abuses it, the way he uses it

Obama made a bad mistake,or he meant to interfere, possibly in support of Cameron
if Merkel muttered anything about the UK referendum in Germany, thats OK, it would mean absolute shit
but if she went to the UK and said she supported or did not support BR EXIT, that would be as bad as what Obama did

think about it
no ones denying them 'an opinion'
like what we do here
but stating such strongly, almost telling the people of another country, in there country is an emphatic no,i think
esp from a politician,and again keep in mind his standing
Hollande,Cameron are shit, compared to Obama, even Merkel

 

[dandelion]

Adding some real facts: the highest growth of GDP per capita in USA happened when the marginal rate of income tax was 90%+.

Obviously gave them a motivation to work harder...

 

[Jason]

None of the online commentators seem to know what to make of Theresa May's statement that the UK should withdraw from the ECHR (ie the Convention) whatever the result of the EU referendum. The range of ideas illustrate just how this has taken everyone by surprise. Ideas include:

* It's part of her leadership bid. She wants to appeal to the Eurosceptic majority in the Conservative Associations (who will vote on Conservative Party leader and therefore in effect on the next PM).
* She knows that there will be furious statements that it is not possible to leave ECHR and stay in EU, so she will use this to change her allegiance to the Leave campaign.
* She's planning for a UK still a member of the EU and realises that withdrawal from ECHR will mean special treatment for the UK for everything. The ECJ has a complex relationship with the ECHR. It is hard to see how it is possible to be part of the ECJ system if not also part of the ECHR. The ECJ is of course an EU institution. May appears to be suggesting that the UK should assert some sort of semi-detached membership from the EU. It's not about asking for such a relationship but rather just asserting it.

I'm going for the third.

 

[Perados]

Obama: Britain and France are just free riders of the American foreign policy and military power...

 

[Jason]

Obama came to the White House with a lot of baggage. Expressed as a positive he wanted the USA to pursue a Pacific policy with greater engagement with the Pacific rim. Expressed as a negative he wanted much less to do with Europe. The idea that he bears a personal grudge against the UK is one that keeps surfacing and probably has some truth in it. His language around the BP oil spill was just awful. He really did put at risk the existence of a massive company by so directly talking it down, a company in which around 11% of UK pensions are invested eek and this for the sake of a bit of political propaganda. Obama has not been a friend to the UK.

In practice Obama has used the UK and France to give legitimacy to US military adventures. For this the UK certainly wasn't at the back of the queue!

Once there is a new POTUS then the UK-US relationship will be reappraised. Clinton would probably be the best choice for the UK. Trump appears to be unsuited through his extremism for any position of power, and it is hard to see how his election could do other than damage the USA and the whole world. That said the UK could probably reach some sort of accommodation with him, as we do with unsavoury heads of state around the world.

What is needed is a strengthened Anglosphere, in which the USA is a key member. For this it is crucial that there are changes to the USA. It particular the doctrine of US exceptionalism must go. The USA is a nation in a global community. Part of a global community is that all members can be censured. Thus the USA's policy on state murder (the so-called death penalty) is unacceptable. The USA's policy on Guantanamo Bay and torture is similarly unacceptable. The USA needs to get rid of these abuses, and in addition it needs to acknowledge culpability.

 

[Jason]

I've just noticed that something went wrong with the emoticon above - it should be . I tried to put it in brackets and got not ( ) but eek

 

[rbkwp]

a BEST verdict ever
British Justice, so many years late,but,no complaints now ..
deserves acknowledgement .. Sports/Politics whatever
admire the families perseverance
always believed it wasa pretty damn suspect myself ..
if in London no way the timeframe, but
Liverpool, have to fight all the way huh

27 year battle so far ..

Hillsborough Jury: Victims Unlawfully Killed

Jurors find the behaviour of fans was not a factor in the tragedy, and that the emergency response contributed to the disaster.

The 96 Liverpool fans who died in the Hillsborough disaster were unlawfully killed, inquests have found - and police have admitted they got it "catastrophically wrong".

A jury ruled that the behaviour of fans was not a factor in the tragedy, which happened when supporters were crushed before an FA Cup semi-final against Nottingham Forest on 15 April 1989.

news.sky.com: Hillsborough Jury: Victims Unlawfully Killed


got not ( ) but eek

digital geek Jason
you Brits cant get it right all the time ha
June 23rd etc ..

 

[Jason]

digital geek Jason
you Brits cant get it right all the time ha
June 23rd etc ..

What we Brits can't get right is polls! The referendum polls are all over the place! Two out today:

ONLINE
Remain 44%
Leave 46%

TELEPHONE
Remain 51%
Leave 46%

I don't understand why these don't add to 100 as the polls gave people a binary choice without "don't know", so I suppose it is some sort of issue of spoilt responses. However telephone has been giving Remain a big lead, so as close as 6% is a shift.

There's an enormous issue about intention to cast a vote. Those polls that are asking are showing that Leave are far more likely to vote. Additionally there's a lot of evidence that "don't knows" are tending to break for Leave. There is hope that Leave can do it.

 

[Perados]

Maybe if you hang up, you get count to the "6%"
And if you click on a pop up and don't finish the poll, you get count of the "10%"



I'm visiting London the first week of June, to make sure I can visit it as long as I don't need visa

 

[Jason]

I'm visiting London the first week of June, to make sure I can visit it as long as I don't need visa

The Royal Commonwealth Society is pushing the idea of a free-mobility labour zone covering UK, Canada, Australia and NZ. There is overwhelming support in all four countries. I think this is exactly the sort of policy we should be adopting, and I would love to see it adopted as an early measure just after the referendum, so as early as autumn this year. I can conceive of living and working in any of these four nations. By contrast, of the 28 EU nations only UK and Ireland make it onto my list.

I don't think we would want a visa for tourists coming from Germany, though Germany would presumably be outside of the free mobility labour zone, with the privilege of a work visa being granted through a points system. By contrast we presumably would want visas for all coming from Bulgaria. The idea of a special visa required for people called Perados is an intriguing idea and I'm sure should be explored.

 

[rbkwp]

as it gets closer, and from what youve stated J
im inclined to be thimkimg theres a likelihood many just wont bother voting
and if that happens
its possible 'leave' will miss out on a win
me thinks


There's an enormous issue about intention to cast a vote. Those polls that are asking are showing that Leave are far more likely to vote. Additionally there's a lot of evidence that "don't knows" are tending to break for Leave. There is hope that Leave can do it.


the c... havent asked me/us yet
demand a referendum/polls galore, preferably the dodgy UK type where they cant countries

i disagree anyway
dontt come crawling back to the 'commonwealth' countries?

we dont want anything to do with the UK after they do there BR EXIT

we in NZ dont want another 100 years of British rape and destruction of our country
besides, us Maoris will strongly object and even go to war over it ha


The Royal Commonwealth Society is pushing the idea of a free-mobility labour zone covering UK, Canada, Australia and NZ. There is overwhelming support in all four countries. I think this is exactly the sort of policy we should be adopting, and I would love to see it