Evangelicals More Likely to Support Torture

Discussion in 'Politics' started by jason_els, Apr 30, 2009.

  1. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    In what is the sickest twist in Christian theology since they finally stopped burning witches in the 18th century, it seems that the closer you are to Jesus, the guy who promoted such popular maxims as, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," and, "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you," and of course, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone,&#8221; the more into torture you are. Maybe I should have taken it as a sign when I took a BDSM course which had three ministers among the participants? :dunno:

     
  2. SilverTrain

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    Not really a surprise.
     
  3. joyboytoy79

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    This is why i always use the word "Christian" with quotation marks. It seems like most "Christians" know their old testament pretty damn well... and also a few choice bits from Paul (who never met Jesus), but they gloss over all the parts that have quotes by people who may have actually known what Jesus said/practiced/preached. Wouldn't that make them... I dunno... not Christian?!?!?!

    The few Christians I've met who actually listen/practice according to words attributed to Jesus are pretty liberal people, and totally dismissed by their "righteous" peers.

    "An eye for an eye" comes from Exodus - it's one of those things Jesus was adamantly opposed to. Go figure. :rolleyes:

    oremus Bible Browser : matthew 5:38-5:39
     
  4. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Are you really surprised by this, Jason? I come from a deeply religious family...obviously I don't get into the politics of creation and evolution with people that are in their 60's who draw strength and hope from scripture and the rest of the deal.

    But truly, they and their congregation are truly incapable of harming a flea and truly only want to live in a world where a 9/11 doesn't happen. And the perpetrators of that event - in the eyes of the deeply religious - are harmful and only capable of reproducing more dangerous perpetrators of similar acts of murder and violence.

    I'm not justifying your cited statistics, merely pointing out a POV that is, in my opinion, understandable.

    Most of these people - and I know them well - spend most of their time volunteering for the less fortunate, going to church choir practice, reciting scripture, Christmas caroling, decorating their yards for every holiday, and going to parades.

    They are anything but dangerous. Their views on torture are not formed because they enjoy the idea of torture; but rather because they are devastated by heinous acts that have caused deep pain and sadness; and to them the people that committed those acts of aggression are like evil aliens from outer space - and I'm not kidding.
     
  5. SilverTrain

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    Magnificent post. Really commendable expenditure of effort.

    The quoted text is one of those "magic bullet" phrases that salves any bullshit.

    I think I'll launch a whole series of "understandable" threads. Maybe start off with, say, Medicaid Fraud: The Understandable Crime.
     
  6. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Thanks. I thought so, too.

    Nope. No magic. Just 2 airplanes flying into 2 towers that killed thousands of innocent civilians. Didn't go through a shoulder, turn around and go through a hip, liver, thigh and neck. Just straight into the buildings and fried innocent people on impact.

    I need to be brought up to speed on this one. What - a nurse and doctor flew a Lifeflight helicopter into a hospital?

    Pray tell.
     
  7. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Dehumanizing another person is the first step in justifying the inhumane. The people you're describing are hypocrites and hypocrites are the one sort of person that Jesus could not stand:
    Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. (Matthew 7:1-5)

    Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, "Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat." He answered them, "And why do you transgress the Commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? For God commanded, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die.' But you say, 'If any one tells his father or his mother, What you would have gained from me is given to God, he need not honor his father.' So, for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God. You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: 'This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me; in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men. (Matthew 15:1-9)
     
  8. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Sheesh. And I thought the libs were supposed to be the understanding ones.

    Basically, you are pigeonholing a faction of society that is self-sufficient, helpful to others, productive, friendly, harmless and family-oriented....and castigating them based on some poll that is premised on the worst attack on American soil in history.

    Seriously, the group you are referencing hasn't performed torture. They offered an opinion in a silly poll.

    I think you are upset with the system that allowed the torture; but you are taking it out on participants in a poll.

    C'mon, momo. Cripes.
     
  9. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    No, I just don't care for hypocrites either. And these people aren't harmless. They support politicians who support torture, they vote, and they have a powerful lobby. The man they profess to follow was able to forgive the people who flogged then nailed him to a cross and broke his legs. If he can do it, they should strive to do so as well. They don't. And as for all the public good they do, they had best be certain their motive is pure:

    Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. Thus, when you give alms, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. (Matthew 6:1-6)
     
  10. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Do you think that everyone that falls into the camp of Christianity subscribes to every passage of the Bible?

    If someone believes in God they must also believe that Moses parted a sea and Noah boarded 2 ants, 2 giraffes, 2 rattlesnakes, etc. onto the Ark?

    Let's agree to disagree here.

    You may be disgusted by Christians, but most that I know....well, the world would be a better, happier, friendlier, less violent place with more of them in it. And I don't have a 'God.'
     
  11. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Of course not, but when you profess faith in a particular man as being your god and/or savior, you'd imagine that his particular teachings would rank above all others. At least that's what they profess in the Nicean Creed.
     
  12. Guy-jin

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    You play the role of apologist well.
     
  13. Drifterwood

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    Someone needs to point out to these people that they are not christians.

    I'll bet a penny to a pound that they also support the death penalty.

    I'll also bet that these people think that Islam is ethically stuck in the Middle Ages, without realising that their own morality is stuck around 600BC. Wasn't there something about taking the plank out of your own eye?
     
  14. houtx48

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    harmless old Christians?...............................can i get some windex for your rose colored glasses?
     
  15. tripod

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    Wow, they could be German citizens circa 1935!!!!!

    It's nice to know that they consider Saudi Arabians to be evil space aliens... nice... real nice.

    Once you see others as evil space aliens... then I guess you can do whatever you want to them because they are not human.

    You have got to just looooove those Christian Soldiers marching off to war against evil space aliens with the cross of Jesus.

    :eek:
     
  16. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    The only ones that have unshakable convictions on the teachings of Jesus are the pastors and extremely devout members of the church.

    The vast majority are just people that tune in for an hour on Sundays.

    They see a horrid atrocity in their back yard and they don't want to see it again.

    I'm with them.

    I understand your point, Jason. But I don't think you will ever understand these people, and I don't think they will ever understand you. They are good people; and so are you.

    IMO, its okay for good people to disagree on an issue.

    To each his own.:smile:
     
  17. SilverTrain

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    Yeah. And all the platitutes and smiley icons in the universe don't change the fact that some people think torture is appropriate, and some don't.
     
  18. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    No argument here.
     
  19. B_625girth

    B_625girth New Member

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    if someone is trying to kill you, one will use whatever means to protect his life. I think after learning to walk, this was my first "life lesson" I learned in the neighborhood I grew up. religion has nothing to do with. it's called the will to survive. it is the strongest emotion or driving force in the human body.
     
  20. D_CountdeGrandePinja

    D_CountdeGrandePinja Account Disabled

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    The Christian right is neither: Christian or right!!!!

    Let's walk in Jesus' shoes and all people of peace.
     
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