Excluding people

[soren10]

I see what you did there , you took half my post. Smart move.

 

[TexanStar]

I see what you did there , you took half my post. Smart move.

I know what the word vengeance means, I didn't think I needed to quote the rest.

Why do you think MickyLee, Fade, or TNJ is awash with a thirst for vengeance against straight men?

 

[693987]

I know what the word vengeance means, I didn't think I needed to quote the rest.

Why do you think MickyLee, Fade, or TNJ is awash with a thirst for vengeance against straight men?

Oi, I'm not filled with a thirst for vengeance against straight men. I want justice to land on the heads of those who deserve it, no matter the gender, orientation, ethnicity, etc.

 

[soren10]

They want straight white men to endure what they had so they can earn the right of having an opinion on a couple of topics and matters of discussion. In their minds my group is incapable of having a valid opinion.

 

[MickeyLee]

Nobody can victimize a white boy quite like a white boy victimizes a white boy.

We are not excluding you from our spaces. We are dictating how you interact in our spaces. You are offering water to a drowning man when if asked, he would probably say "a boat would be lovely right about now"

You are so offended that your glass of water was rejected you don't take the time to look at it from the others point of view. You are not an ally if you come into a space demanding your place at the table. You are an ally when you make room for others at your table.

*generally grumpy now*

 

[693987]

They want straight white men to endure what they had so they can earn the right of having an opinion on a couple of topics and matters of discussion. In their minds my group is incapable of having a valid opinion.

Lumping people together while complaining about the exact same thing, are we? Yes, yes you are.

I as an individual say sure, you can have an opinion. Of course you can. What is a giant stinking heap of garbage is when you think you can speak for a demographic you don't belong to. Which you do consistently.

 

[soren10]

i think i had enough about explaining how i think. this forum is yours and yours alone. have fun with it..

also just so i can joke before i stop posting , this is for the ladies. go to the 0:30 mark.

 

[MickeyLee]

During your exit flounce, you stepped in dog shit.

 

[TexanStar]

They want straight white men to endure what they had so they can earn the right of having an opinion on a couple of topics and matters of discussion. In their minds my group is incapable of having a valid opinion.

Are you talking about the thread where you, as a straight man, are trying to offer up the opinions of women and gay men?

 

[693987]

i think i had enough about explaining how i think. this forum is yours and yours alone. have fun with it..

also just so i can joke before i stop posting , this is for the ladies. go to the 0:30 mark.

That you can't grasp the difference between having an opinion on a topic and speaking for others, especially a demographic you don't belong to is not the fault of other individuals.

If you didn't notice, I called out @TexanStar for trying to speak for me in this very thread. And just a little secret, he's not white. Enjoy your persecution complex, though.

 

[328982]

Sorry but I disagree. People face injustice and struggle. It's nice that they want to make other people's lives better. No need to face the exact same struggle. Help is always a nice and thoughtful move, if the motives are good that is.

I agree, if the help offered is well intentioned and actually helpful, it's a shame to reject it. Even if someone can't exactly experience what you do, it's worth a lot that they are prepared to hold out a helping hand or even just show empathy. I don't really know the LGBT event you're referring to, but I imagine at least some or perhaps even most were happy to have straight allies? Maybe focus on those rather than the ones who didn't welcome support from outside their 'community' for whatever reason.

 

[soren10]

I agree, if the help offered is well intentioned and actually helpful, it's a shame to reject it. Even if someone can't exactly experience what you do, it's worth a lot that they are prepared to hold out a helping hand or even just show empathy. I don't really know the LGBT event you're referring to, but I imagine at least some or perhaps even most were happy to have straight allies? Maybe focus on those rather than the ones who didn't welcome support from outside their 'community' for whatever reason.

thanks for this..!!! yes most were welcoming to any help they can get, a minority of this group acted like that. also LGBT = lesbian gay bisexual transgender/transexual

 

[Nudistpig]

I see this happen mainly online in forums and especially on Twitter. Why some people feel the need to exclude others and isolate themselves in their comfort bubble.?

2 years ago there was a huge LGBT movement on Twitter following the fact that members of this community are not fairly represented in media, such as movies and tv shows. There was understanding about this issue from different communities also. Yet some completely stubborn LGBT members were so adamant that just because someone doesn't belong to this community, he or she can't know how it's like to be treated badly. Some , a minority, even demanded that the LGBT community doesn't need any ally. I see this happen Here, sorry but the motion that it's mandatory to be part of a community or a demographic to know anything about said social group , is just silly.

I'm late to the party but here's the thing. You cannot know what I know. You can empathize, you can research, but you cannot know. Only I know what my life has been as a gay dude. Only those who experienced the suicide inducing homophobia of the 1970's and 80s and the shadow of the AIDS crisis have my perspective. And as survivors of trauma some of us dont want or need our spaces invaded by people who don't get it and who think the issue is them being left out instead of them continuing the very marginalization and stigma that caused the problems in the first place.

I'm super chill and built of piss and vinegar. You wanna hang with my radical queers? Come on down. I am 100 percent certain your knowledge of the praxis politics philosophy and unwritten rules is zero. Why? You can't guess or make it up or even learn it in school or by watching Drag Race. It's lived experience and a lot of blood sweat and tears.

People think that the rest of the world beyond their noses is simple. It's not. Complexity and nuance are everywhere and especially in cultures and subcultures. It's offensive to even read this complaint because a) you don't want to hang out on gay Twitter, b) you don't know what you don't know. c) not feeling immediately welcome gave you a little taste of marginalization and you didn't like it. No one does. Imagine that every day all day long. d) you took your feels and concluded LGBTQ folx were discriminating because you felt bad for a second. In that you chose your one tiny hurt over centuries of injustice and that is just wrong.

You don't need to worry about gay Twitter. But if you want to, get your facts and ideas in order before going off like that.

 

[soren10]

I'm late to the party but here's the thing. You cannot know what I know. You can empathize, you can research, but you cannot know. Only I know what my life has been as a gay dude. Only those who experienced the suicide inducing homophobia of the 1970's and 80s and the shadow of the AIDS crisis have my perspective. And as survivors of trauma some of us dont want or need our spaces invaded by people who don't get it and who think the issue is them being left out instead of them continuing the very marginalization and stigma that caused the problems in the first place.

I'm super chill and built of piss and vinegar. You wanna hang with my radical queers? Come on down. I am 100 percent certain your knowledge of the praxis politics philosophy and unwritten rules is zero. Why? You can't guess or make it up or even learn it in school or by watching Drag Race. It's lived experience and a lot of blood sweat and tears.

People think that the rest of the world beyond their noses is simple. It's not. Complexity and nuance are everywhere and especially in cultures and subcultures. It's offensive to even read this complaint because a) you don't want to hang out on gay Twitter, b) you don't know what you don't know. c) not feeling immediately welcome gave you a little taste of marginalization and you didn't like it. No one does. Imagine that every day all day long. d) you took your feels and concluded LGBTQ folx were discriminating because you felt bad for a second. In that you chose your one tiny hurt over centuries of injustice and that is just wrong.

You don't need to worry about gay Twitter. But if you want to, get your facts and ideas in order before going off like that.

that's a well thought out post and a food for thought for sure. i'll do what you advise me to do. it's nice that you took the time and posted in detail about this topic. thanks..!!!

 

[MickeyLee]

I'm late to the party but here's the thing. You cannot know what I know. You can empathize, you can research, but you cannot know. Only I know what my life has been as a gay dude. Only those who experienced the suicide inducing homophobia of the 1970's and 80s and the shadow of the AIDS crisis have my perspective. And as survivors of trauma some of us dont want or need our spaces invaded by people who don't get it and who think the issue is them being left out instead of them continuing the very marginalization and stigma that caused the problems in the first place.

I'm super chill and built of piss and vinegar. You wanna hang with my radical queers? Come on down. I am 100 percent certain your knowledge of the praxis politics philosophy and unwritten rules is zero. Why? You can't guess or make it up or even learn it in school or by watching Drag Race. It's lived experience and a lot of blood sweat and tears.

People think that the rest of the world beyond their noses is simple. It's not. Complexity and nuance are everywhere and especially in cultures and subcultures. It's offensive to even read this complaint because a) you don't want to hang out on gay Twitter, b) you don't know what you don't know. c) not feeling immediately welcome gave you a little taste of marginalization and you didn't like it. No one does. Imagine that every day all day long. d) you took your feels and concluded LGBTQ folx were discriminating because you felt bad for a second. In that you chose your one tiny hurt over centuries of injustice and that is just wrong.

You don't need to worry about gay Twitter. But if you want to, get your facts and ideas in order before going off like that.

Like is not a strong enough option for this post. I need to print it out and post it up around my neighborhood.

 

[Nudistpig]

The context was that LGBT characters in movies are treated badly and almost always don't have A happy ending. There was a movement to change that from the LGBT community and there were allies from straight people supporting this community and wanting to help with fair representation and the rights in general and some people of said community were adamant against any people , that were not part of this community, that wanted to help.

That's what you saw. But what you didn't see was the years of straight allies helping by coopting and diluting queer grassroots politics. Many of us are tired of this. It looks like exclusion and rage from nowhere because your context is not LGBTQ2 history activism politics etc. The issue of representation in Hollywood is well founded. See Vito Russo. I am a film scholar and LGBTQ community elder now. This is fact and in this day and age we should have better representation. We don't because straight producers writers directors and consumers push a narrow range. Why should we openly welcome straight allies to a rally wheb they are still consuming the stereotypes and not calling writing and agitating for change? It's slacktivism even if well intended. I call BLM before I go to protest. They tell me where I can go to be most helpful.

 

[MisterB]

OP--I appreciate you posting this in the Et Cetera section, where guys can respond too.

You titled this thread "Excluding people". I think it's funny, cuz you sir, have demonstrated single-handedly, quite the ability to exclude oneself from participating in some great conversations here at LPSG. And you repeatedly feign ignorance to understanding why that is. I, for one, no longer buy that. You know exactly what you are doing. And it appears that others feel similarly, as I believe that's why you are regularly called out on your shit.

I say that because I've read thread after thread after thread you start, mainly in the Ask a Woman section. That wouldn't be so some of us guys can't respond, would it? You write and write and write some more, pretty much saying the same thing over and over and over. And then you get pretty much the same responses from mainly the same females from whom you seek constant validation, and said responses rarely support your writings. And it's not because said women haven't tried to "edumacate" you about how misguided a lot of your musings strike them to be. So, what do you do? You start another thread, hoping to have a different outcome. How's that been working for you?

A better title for this thread perhaps would be "I want to be included". Badly. Bigly. You should take a deep breath and 'listen" more here at LPSG before starting another thread.

There are a lot of great people posting here at LPSG. Not everyone agrees with everyone else, and that's okay. In fact, I think it's great, because while I may not agree with what is said, I do make the effort to try and understand where they are coming from. I strive daily to see things from others perspectives, not just the perspective of a 64 year old gay man. Some days I'm much more successful than others. Today is not one of those days.

 

[Nudistpig]

that's a well thought out post and a food for thought for sure. i'll do what you advise me to do. it's nice that you took the time and posted in detail about this topic. thanks..!!!

Hey I know it feels shitty to be left out. You didn't make any assumptions most folks not connected to us don't make. The media is full of opinions and soundbites that have none of the actual facts of most non mainstream communities. I am hoping you will see that it's not the opinion that upset the most, it's the insisting on your exclusion being that which matters most. Again, criticism feels like attack and its normal to double down. But it's a bad idea. I had a hard time learning to say I'm sorry to others when they read me sideways. But it gets easy fast. And you know what? The hurt goes awsy instead of growing.

 

[soren10]

Hey I know it feels shitty to be left out. You didn't make any assumptions most folks not connected to us don't make. The media is full of opinions and soundbites that have none of the actual facts of most non mainstream communities. I am hoping you will see that it's not the opinion that upset the most, it's the insisting on your exclusion being that which matters most. Again, criticism feels like attack and its normal to double down. But it's a bad idea. I had a hard time learning to say I'm sorry to others when they read me sideways. But it gets easy fast. And you know what? The hurt goes awsy instead of growing.

it's just odd how one can get respect and appreciation so fast, you got mine mister. your posts is spot on and friendly to say the least. again thanks..!!!

 

[soren10]

OP--I appreciate you posting this in the Et Cetera section, where guys can respond too.

You titled this thread "Excluding people". I think it's funny, cuz you sir, have demonstrated single-handedly, quite the ability to exclude oneself from participating in some great conversations here at LPSG. And you repeatedly feign ignorance to understanding why that is. I, for one, no longer buy that. You know exactly what you are doing. And it appears that others feel similarly, as I believe that's why you are regularly called out on your shit.

I say that because I've read thread after thread after thread you start, mainly in the Ask a Woman section. That wouldn't be so some of us guys can't respond, would it? You write and write and write some more, pretty much saying the same thing over and over and over. And then you get pretty much the same responses from mainly the same females from whom you seek constant validation, and said responses rarely support your writings. And it's not because said women haven't tried to "edumacate" you about how misguided a lot of your musings strike them to be. So, what do you do? You start another thread, hoping to have a different outcome. How's that been working for you?

A better title for this thread perhaps would be "I want to be included". Badly. Bigly. You should take a deep breath and 'listen" more here at LPSG before starting another thread.

There are a lot of great people posting here at LPSG. Not everyone agrees with everyone else, and that's okay. In fact, I think it's great, because while I may not agree with what is said, I do make the effort to try and understand where they are coming from. I strive daily to see things from others perspectives, not just the perspective of a 64 year old gay man. Some days I'm much more successful than others. Today is not one of those days.

it's nice to get corrected in a detailed post. i'll try my best to be a better man. you are free to call me out if i lose my way in the future. you and @Nudistpig made me see the error of my ways. i hope in the future i won't disappoint either of you.