Excluding people

[soren10]

Expanding on that, it is important for allies to ASK HOW they should help.

as you mention the HOW is very important. going in with good intentions are not enough , one should focus and give his/hers energy to things that can make a difference and in real need of help. and not spread thin doing unnecessary work.

 

[AlteredEgo]

as you mention the HOW is very important. going in with good intentions are not enough , one should focus and give his/hers energy to things that can make a difference and in real need of help. and not spread thin doing unnecessary work.

Really it is to avoid being offensive and unhelpful by speaking over, or tone policing the marginalized groups.

 

[sodominsane]

I wouldn't call it a privilege. Most people struggle in life.

Also if you have faced exclusion, wouldn't be more wise to not exclude people yourself. ( in general not you specific ).Why prolong a problem by being a part of it ?

Hi....this is a bit out the realm of post....but when I hear people talk about "white privilege" or "male privilege"......right away people jump and say...."I don't feel privilege, I worked for everything,,no handouts, no special legislation, no affirmative actions....blah blah"

Well all of those things may be true...but the thing is...its really hard to notice YOUR own privileges

A friend of mine put it a very easy way to understand.

I am fairly tall....I go into a store and milk is on the too shelf....it's real easy to grab....I grab it and go....

Now i don't grab the milk thinking....hey wow it's great to be tall...(tall privelege?)...sunny day...wow everything comes easy cause I'm tall...oh sunny day

If anything in just complain about how much work shopping is....the long lines...rude checkout...

Now a short person does notice how hard it is to reach milk and the whole world is set up for people above 5 8...

See how they can see privelege you can't

I don't know if this came over internet well...but kinda see where I'm going

 

[Pokefur]

I see this happen mainly online in forums and especially on Twitter. Why some people feel the need to exclude others and isolate themselves in their comfort bubble.?

2 years ago there was a huge LGBT movement on Twitter following the fact that members of this community are not fairly represented in media, such as movies and tv shows. There was understanding about this issue from different communities also. Yet some completely stubborn LGBT members were so adamant that just because someone doesn't belong to this community, he or she can't know how it's like to be treated badly. Some , a minority, even demanded that the LGBT community doesn't need any ally. I see this happen Here, sorry but the motion that it's mandatory to be part of a community or a demographic to know anything about said social group , is just silly.

How do you think I feel as a furry dude? Everyone just "Assumes" about us. But in reality we are probably more normal than most people because We atleast admit that we are a Little Weird.

 

[soren10]

Hi....this is a bit out the realm of post....but when I hear people talk about "white privilege" or "male privilege"......right away people jump and say...."I don't feel privilege, I worked for everything,,no handouts, no special legislation, no affirmative actions....blah blah"

Well all of those things may be true...but the thing is...its really hard to notice YOUR own privileges

A friend of mine put it a very easy way to understand.

I am fairly tall....I go into a store and milk is on the too shelf....it's real easy to grab....I grab it and go....

Now i don't grab the milk thinking....hey wow it's great to be tall...(tall privelege?)...sunny day...wow everything comes easy cause I'm tall...oh sunny day

If anything in just complain about how much work shopping is....the long lines...rude checkout...

Now a short person does notice how hard it is to reach milk and the whole world is set up for people above 5 8...

See how they can see privelege you can't

I don't know if this came over internet well...but kinda see where I'm going

You make a valid point but as said all people struggle in life. What one can do is be the change he wants society to be. If you live in a small town where people are mean to you , then move to a bigger one where people show more understanding and are more inclusive. It's up to the individual to change his or hers life. Blaming others for your struggles is the easiest thing in the world. If you want your life to change , change it yourself don't expect anything from anyone.

 

[sodominsane]

You make a valid point but as said all people struggle in life. What one can do is be the change he wants society to be. If you live in a small town where people are mean to you , then move to a bigger one where people show more understanding and are more inclusive. It's up to the individual to change his or hers life. Blaming others for your struggles is the easiest thing in the world. If you want your life to change , change it yourself don't expect anything from anyone.

Yeah all people do struggle but the point was....it's easy for people recognize there struggles. And other peoples advantages....

Very hard to recognise your own privileges

It goes both ways too...that last comment I really dont want to have to explain on open forum...

 

[soren10]

Yeah all people do struggle but the point was....it's easy for people recognize there struggles. And other peoples advantages....

Very hard to recognise your own privileges

It goes both ways too...that last comment I really dont want to have to explain on open forum...

I'm a bit confused. What last comment?

 

[sodominsane]

I'm a bit confused. What last comment?

I'll explain in a second....but first do you understand how it's hard to recognise your own privilege?

 

[soren10]

I'll explain in a second....but first do you understand how it's hard to recognise your own privilege?

I never denied it so far.

 

[sodominsane]

I never denied it so far.

Ok cool....

Now someone will say hey...you soren10....as a white male have privilege....it's very easy to say....no I don't...get you Do you just don't recognize it

It's also hard to see the struggles of an out group your not a part of


No here's the rub....if you say you have unique struggles....as a white male.....the other groups well say....bahahhhh....cause for same reasons...you have trouble recognise the there struggles....the can't recognize yours....like reaching for the milk in previous analogy

Btw me saying YOU wasn't like I'm actually singling out you....or even implying you do/think or feel......it was just for example and flow of convo....

 

[soren10]

Ok cool....

Now someone will say hey...you soren10....as a white male have privilege....it's very easy to say....no I don't...get you Do you just don't recognize it

It's also hard to see the struggles of an out group your not a part of


No here's the rub....if you say you have unique struggles....as a white male.....the other groups well say....bahahhhh....cause for same reasons...you have trouble recognise the there struggles....the can't recognize yours....like reaching for the milk in previous analogy

Btw me saying YOU wasn't like I'm actually singling out you....or even implying you do/think or feel......it was just for example and flow of convo....

i know.. i use the word you, much the same way most times, myself. i get why and how you use it. btw in the milk analogy , i think if a short guy asked a taller guy for help to reach the milk, the tall guy more often than not would help.

 

[1019487]

If you want your life to change , change it yourself don't expect anything from anyone.

That works for something like deciding to go to the gym or getting on a more consistent sleep scheduling, not uh

Combatting centuries of systemic discrimination

 

[soren10]

That works for something like deciding to go to the gym or getting on a more consistent sleep scheduling, not uh

Combatting centuries of systemic discrimination

well one of the biggest countries in the world has a Gay president ( Canada ). things are changing fast. also i don't think that people in big cities like L.A and New York, London , Paris etc. care about or are bothered from one's sexuality.

 

[sodominsane]

i know.. i use the word you, much the same way most times, myself. i get why and how you use it. btw in the milk analogy , i think if a short guy asked a taller guy for help to reach the milk, the tall guy more often than not would help.

This has really turned into fun

conversation....btw...I'm am blowing off some work that I came to office early to get done....cause I'm enjoying this convo....one of my nurses is gonna have to pick up my slack.....privilege baby

Yes short person will be glad for help...possibly have a tinge of annoance they the world is clearly not set up for them...and be unhappy that they have to ask for help...and bear a slight bit resentment for tall person who oblivious ly walks through life unaware of how esaybthe
y have it

Tall person gets self satisfing feeling of "doing a good dead".....even though ....shit should be that way to begin with

 

[1019487]

well one of the biggest countries in the world has a Gay president ( Canada ).

Lmao
Justin Trudeau isn’t gay

 

[soren10]

Lmao
Justin Trudeau isn’t gay

really. it's miss information from my end then. my bad.

 

[TexanStar]

really. it's miss information from my end then. my bad.

There've been a few openly gay heads of state. Iceland, Ireland, Belgium, etc.

Justin Trudeau's married with 3 kids. That doesn't strictly exclude the possibility, but yeah, not gay

 

[cockydude2018]

Lmao
Justin Trudeau isn’t gay

Maybe Macron is lol

 

[MisterB]

really. it's miss information from my end then. my bad.

Reading and listening more will help your "misinformation"...perhaps you should take a good close look at what I bolded in your posting quoted below...and then try and apply this sage advice you offer to others to yourself. Over my life, I've earnestly strived to listen better; I believe it is especially important when "listening" (reading) the written word on internet forums such as LPSG.

You make a valid point but as said all people struggle in life. What one can do is be the change he wants society to be. If you live in a small town where people are mean to you , then move to a bigger one where people show more understanding and are more inclusive. It's up to the individual to change his or hers life. Blaming others for your struggles is the easiest thing in the world. If you want your life to change , change it yourself don't expect anything from anyone.

 

[Nudistpig]

You're still losing me. Set aside everything after world war 2. Let me know how the military invasion of China by the Empire of Japan is an example of colonial oppression of Japan?

I mean, if we're going to go the route that adverse economic conditions were affecting Japan at the time they invaded China, then we might as well say that the Nazi regime in Germany were the oppressed and not the oppressors (by way of the unfair terms placed upon them during the treaty of Versailles).

Those poor German nazis and those poor Japanese rapemongers! Do you see where I'm getting confused? If you want to talk about the terms of Japan's surrender and how that has had an impact on Japan we can, but what are you bringing pre WW2 into this? Japan was an imperialist nation. Caucasian Imperialism is bad and Asian Imperialism is okay? I'm just lost...

It's really frustrating to try and chat history with Americans. Your system imposes linear, partisan and impossibly simple paradigms. Imperialism is bad. Nowhere do I say it is good. Causality in war is complex. It can't be reduced to one thing or even small group of things. Just because Japan has had a colonial experience and is affected by it still does not mean Europe caused the invasion of China. That's absurd.

However, Japanese imperialism was shaped by Western intervention, commerce, political transformation and intellectual life, and most importantly technological. To what degree this affects national and cultural psyche today is the big question. European colonialism in the new world erased the Indigenous cultures, enslaved Africans but none of these things happened in Japan. It remained ethnically uniform.

Look at it this way. A Japanese person in Beppu will likely never experience racism directly. They will have a cultural experience of it in some form. They will not experience marginalization. However if they move to Arkansas the dynamics change.