Expelled

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by eaglespga88, Mar 2, 2008.

  1. eaglespga88

    eaglespga88 New Member

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    I saw this trailer and it really piqued my interest. As a God-fearing red-blooded conservative American male I too wonder "what the deuce" is up with today's scientific community. 86% of americans believe that God (or some higher form) exists, so why is intelligent design so shunned? It honestly makes a hell of alot more sense than being created from mud. Mud? Come guys, I know as scientists you question life itself, but some of their "answers" to life sound just downright absurd. If 86% of people really do believe in a higher power, then Intelligent Design is alot less absurd sounding than "lightning and mud"

    Pretty Interesting, Check it out:

    The Playground for Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
     
  2. JustAsking

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    eagles,
    That is a very interesting question. Actually, ID is not shunned by anyone. It is a 150 year old idea, first proposed by William Paley at the beginning of the 1800s in his book called Natural Theology. The book was used for some 60 years or more and Charles Darwin used it as a textbook at Cambridge.

    Paley's Design notion was more of a theological one than a scientific one, since there was no scientific theory or any evidence against it until the mid 1800s when fossils were starting to be found and along with the science of geology. Together they pretty much nailed down the notion of Descent with Modification, which is the fact part of Evolution. By Darwin's time, Descent with Modification was pretty much accepted as fact but there were a number of different explanations for how it might occur.

    When Darwin provided the mechanism of Random Mutation + Natural Selection it pretty much put the nail in the coffin of Design theory. For the last 150 years now, Design theory has come up with no evidence, it has never explained anything, nor has it made any predictions.

    On the other hand, Darwin's theory, which is now combined with genetics and microbiology to form Modern Evolutionary Theory has done nothing but produce evidence, successful explanations and successful predictions for the last 150 years.

    Since this is the measure for acceptance of a scientific theory, it is the accepted theory for the diversity of life on the planet. There are some 400 papers published every month in professional journals on evolution with no one publishing anything that refutes it. The various mechanism of Evolution and the pathways and taxonomy is always being modified, but the basic idea has been sound for over 100 years.

    What the public believes has no scientific value, except for the fact that it is a tragedy for a nation so advanced in science and technology for its public to be clueless about one of the foundational scientific theories of the last two centuries.

    The controversy you might hear about is not scientific, since no one has made any scientific challenges to Evolution in the last 100 years or so. The controversy is religious, political and cultural.

    The Discovery Institute, in Seattle, who has published recently on Inteligent Design and is making all the noise about it has an annual budget in the millions of dollars, all supplied by Christian fundamentalists. They do no research, nor do they submit papers to scientific journals. It is a political lobbying firm and all their budget goes into lobbying the public and the federal and state legislative bodies of state boards of education.

    Edit; Oh by the way. The Modern Theory of Evolution says nothing about how the first life form came about. It is simply a theory on how live came to be so diverse on the planet. Notions about lightning and mud are most speculation, but it has been observed pleny of times that it is not too hard to create organic molecules. In fact, the spectrum of a number of organic molecules are seen in space even.
     
  3. SpeedoGuy

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    I think its shocking as well.

    I also think clueless = purposefully misled or deliberately kept ignorant.
     
  4. eaglespga88

    eaglespga88 New Member

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    Did you watch the trailer? Thats just it, there apparently IS evidence out there, the scientific community has just shut them down from publishing any of it. Thats what the film and my question was about. That why is the scientific community not allowing this other evidence to enter the picture? Its like they have decided there is no God, and they will hear nothing to disprove themselves.
     
  5. JustAsking

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    Ok, let me get this straight. For the past 150 years, hundreds of thousands of scientists have conspired to protect a big lie about life on the planet and deny all the compelling evidence that God created all the species about 6000 years ago. All of these scientists, be they religious (many are, by the way), come to work every day, knowing that their main job is to publish false papers on Evolution in order to keep the public from believing in God.

    Also, despite the fact that 80% of the world's Christians belong to denominations (including Roman Catholic) that embrace science and specifically Evolution, it is still all a big scam on the public. Somehow, these lying scientific bastards even duped the last three Popes.

    And you know this because a game show host with a boring voice made a trailer with freaky music and a bunch of innuendos about some kind of conspiracy. Do I have this right?
     
  6. dreamer20

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    Yes, I watched the trailer. Intelligent Design/Creationism is not "a smart new idea" for the classroom. It's quite a moldy, old idea from the Bible's book of Genesis. Of this you and Ben Stein are well aware. The Sky God mated with the Earth Goddess/mud/clay and gave birth to man. You believe in God, yet you deny the ancient Hebrew's Genesis story of the Earth being created in the year 3,761 BC. Are you also one of the 67% of Americans who also do not believe in Noah's flood? BTW do not discount JustAsking's posts. He has done an excellent job of presenting the facts of this matter.
     
  7. JustAsking

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    By the way, eagle. There is a conspiracy in the scientific world to keep out a very interesting theory about the creation and diversification of life on the planet. It is called the FSM theory. Before you get too attached to Ben Stein's considered opinion on Evolutionary Biology, you should take a look at FSM theory.

    There is considerable evidence to support it and those lying dogmatic scientists are trying to protect their careers by censoring any scientific publications about it. FSM theory is reduced to publishing on their website and unfortunately, they didnt' have the funds to sign up the world's leading evolutionary biologist, Ben Stein. So the Intelligent Design Creationists got him instead. For Ben, it was either that or another cable tv game show.

    Personally, I go with the Navajo Creation story. I am wondering why you didn't mention that one, eagle. It explains why there are porcupines, too. You don't see the Discovery Institute tackling that one.
     
  8. headbang8

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    JA, have I told you lately that I love you? As always, you are both passionate and rational at the same time.
     
  9. JustAsking

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    Hey, thanks for the good words, headbang. I seem to get a lot of love for this kind of thing. From men and women both. It keeps me going.

    I think we lost this one though. I was looking forward to someone who might be able to defend Intelligent Design for a while. I don't think Ben Stein fans will carry it though.

    While we are waiting, though, I would like to bring to our readers' attention the mission statement of the Discovery Institute's Center for The Renewal of Science and Culture, in regard to science now, and all disciplines in the future. They have stayed pretty true to their three phase strategy, they decided to skip Phase I to save them some time and money.

    Does anyone have any questions or thoughts on their Wedge Strategy?
     
  10. Phil Ayesho

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    Wake up...
    anyone thinking that Intelligent Design has any real evidence in support simply doesn't understand what constitutes evidence.

    Saying "magic sky daddy did it" is not a workable theory of causation, because it gives us no ability to predict future observations...
    Which is what a real scientific theory does... PREDICT future observations based upon an understanding of causation.


    As such ID makes NO predictions... has not one experimental result... no peer reviewed published papers... NOT ONE.

    its NOT a theory.

    Evolution is one of the most successful theories in all of scientific history.
    Thus far, ALL evidence.. from ALL sources support evolution entirely... that is... not one single piece of evidence, out of millions of bits of evidence, refutes evolution.

    The exact same science that makes your cell phone work, your computer function, and enables us to manipulate chemistry has proven, beyond any doubt that evolution is as real and undeniable as gravity.


    We have a theory of gravity, too... and while our theory of gravity may be less than 100% perfect... less than 100% correct... no thinking person would suggest that that shadow of doubt regarding our understanding of gravity means that maybe gravity isn't "true".

    This nation's greatest achievement was the separation of church and state.
    Our abilty to pursue scientific truth regardless of what the bible says is what has put the US at the top of the heap, well out in front.

    Why screw with that?

    And as to 80% believing in GOD...

    so what..
    scientific truth is NOT the consensus... its it strictly and ONLY what you can demonstrate to be true.

    Used to be nigh onto 100% believed the world was flat, fixed and immovable ( cause the bible says so)
    No matter how many folks believed it... that didn't make the earth any flatter, more fixed or less movable.


    thousands of years of religion, of prayers and belief in a comforting delusion did not improve the human condition one tiny bit... did not make life longer, healthier, nor better.

    Science, however, HAS achieved the actual miracles that faith fails to deliver.

    People live longer, healthier, better lives than every before... with the ability to travel the world, enjoy sophisticated entertainment, and discover the cosmos.... the nearsighted can see, the lame walk, and the diseased, cured...


    And all of that came from putting away idiotic superstitions and simply accepting that the only standard we have to meet is PROVING it works.


    Without science... you wouldn't even have cold beer in summer.

    So shake off the delusion of a sky daddy you can't prove exists and that can not actually answer prayers ( prayer was proven ineffectual, scientifically)

    Put him with Santa and the tooth fairy where he belongs...

    and support the fact that a technologically dependent civilization can not afford to mistake real proof for fairy tales.

    I don't care how many people are navie, or frightened of death enough, to believe in god.
    PROVE it.
    demonstrate God the way Marconi could demonstrate radio.
     
  11. Randyvoorburg

    Randyvoorburg Member

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    I bet at one point 86% of the world believed that the earth was flat and that the notion of its roundness had been ubsurd. I bet 86% of people would believe that the existence of this website is ubsurd if not immoral. If the God you know is so powerful he can choose whatever way, be it lightning on mud, or molding of clay, or saying a word, what makes one less ubsurd than the other? If that's how he wants to do it then let him be. If one really needs to keep his faith in God in the face of increasing evidence of evolution why not try seeing the brilliance or the genius in it. Just because it doesn't seem to involve God too much or because it didn't take 7 days doesn't make it less possibility of its source being a higher power. Actually, if I had to be religious myself, I'd be taking the evolutionary path rather than the creationist, there seems to be more thought in evolution, and i'd like to think of a god as a thinking god. Having said that, I'm still bothered by the whole 86% thing. What do numbers have to do with truth? Truth is not a matter you can vote on. You can change the labels by consensus if you want the sky to be labelled "red" and vote on it that's your choice, but it doesn't change the color.
     
  12. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    So why not simply say that God caused the spark that caused the goo to form amino acids which began replicating themselves? Why not say that God caused the ancient hominids to become Homo sapiens? God works perfectly well within evolutionary theory once you understand what evolutionary theory really is.

    Intelligent design bugs me because it's so narrow. The only creation they espouse is the Judeo-Islamic-Christian theory and there are thousands of other creation stories out there. Maybe they all have it wrong and some little Leaver tribe in the Andamans has it right? There is no way to tell, no manner to test intelligent design outside the realm of faith and morality and, assuming for the moment ID is right, no way to tell which ID theory is the right one.
     
  13. Phil Ayesho

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    Why not leave delusion out of it entirely?

    God is a story you were told when you were too young to think critically... what's your excuse for not engaging your brain as an adult?


    I understand we would all like to believe something is in control, that life has a purpose... would all like to believe in an afterlife... that we do not end...
    But where's the proof?

    And don't bang that tired old "morality" drum... the Bible is nothing but stories of God demanding people break commandments...act immorally, murder and kill...
    Besides, If you are only moral out of fear of punishment, or promise of some eternal reward... then you are acting purely out of self interest alone... and that is not morality. That's being a 4 year old.


    I, for one, am sick and tired of the burgeoning christian fascism of the past 12 years.
    They have put the US well behind in biotechnology, undermined science education and research, and are turning Americans into technological imbeciles.
    They are on the forefront of denying people civil rights, stripping us of constitutional protections, censorship, book burning, and gay bashing.

    They are cut from the exact same cloth as the wahabist extremists that perpetrated 9/11. That arrogant moral certainty that their imaginary friend can beat up everyone ele's imaginary friend.

    Its high time that an admission of basing of your world view on a book written 2,000 years ago by people who would have been mystified by a flushing toilet should be an embarrassment.
    ON a par with believing in leprechauns, Bigfoot, and George Bush.


    Pry open a cell phone and take a good look... if you don't understand everything about how it works,,, if you couldn't even begin to figure out how to build one... then its Magic, as far as you're concerned.

    But The fact that technology is magic to you does not make magic the equal of technology.

    Simple, really... physics, geology, biology, genetics, radiology, paleontology, astronomy, vulcanology, chemistry.... every single field of science ALL confirm evolution.

    those scientific fields are responsible for nearly every aspect of the world you enjoy... unlike faith, they actually WORK, as advertised.

    And the same knowledge that makes your car, your computer, your TV, your fridge, microwave, radio, gameboy, and nowadays, even your dick, WORK for you... is telling you evolution is true.


    If you still believe in the bible and Intelligent design, then at least have the ethical standards of the Amish and live without the products of the science you have no faith in.
     
  14. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    Sweet jesus (pun both intended and unintended), ... post of the week herein. Well put... I disagree with some of it, but can't bother with this paramount of dialogue.
     
  15. JustAsking

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    Hey thanks, face. But please don't hold back. You are usually quite prolific when you have something to say.
     
  16. EagleCowboy

    EagleCowboy Well-Known Member

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    God created man in His image.
    Man, being the gentleman that he is, returned the favor.




    2 scientists died and went to Heaven to stand before God. They exclaimed to God that they were convinced He wasn't real . To which God replied that He has been there all along. The scientists replied, "No matter. We can create anything that you created. We've figured it out and don't really need you anymore." God said. "Oh really? Let's see you create a man from scratch the way I did." The scientists nod their heads and start scooping up dirt in preparation to create their man.
    God tells them to stop right there. The scientists are puzzled and asks what's wrong. God says, "Make your own dirt."
     
  17. B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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    Isn't that what the Bible says too?
     
  18. Gillette

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    :cool:
     
  19. Drifterwood

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  20. titan1968

    titan1968 Active Member

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    Not all. The original theory of the Big Bang was formulated by a scientist and Roman Catholic priest from Belgium, Father Georges Lemaître in 1927. If memory serves me correctly, the scientific community of the time thought that Lemaître's idea was ludicrous (and not scientific). Today the Theory of the Big Bang is one of the main theories on the origins of our universe.

    In my opinion creation and evolution are two parts of the same equation which help explain our existence. Are we not created in the womb? What is fertilisation? Answer: the introduction of (male) sperm into a (female) egg to develop a new individual. As we develop in the womb, our bodies change and we take on final human characteristics. Isn't that evolution?

     
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