Extreme Jealousy?

[alwaysguessing]

Sorry, that shit ain't love. That's sadomasochism. We all get attached to the things that get us off, so it's easy to confuse

I don't know how you got that. There is no mention of sex. It could be describing the same love that one might have for a friend, family member, or child.

It is not about deriving pleasure from pain. It is about accepting pain and sorrow, as a necessary side effect to the privilege of loving another person. It is about focusing on what you can give, and accepting whatever you might get in return.

 

[sbat]

Love is also about letting go, and understanding when things must come to an end.
My cousin keeping her father dying of completely metastisized cancer - 85 years old - on life support even though he would be unable to breathe if off of it as well as in tremendous pain for every waking moment - that is not love. Love is not clinging to a terrible quality of life for fear of what happens if the known becomes the unknown. Which is what my cousin was doing, and what you seem to be doing.

I still maintain that a lot of people confuse attachment for love, fear of loss for love, and erotic/psychological pleasure for love. Given your previous comments - particularly about the sex - you have not really made it clear whether what you have is love rather than attachment.

 

[alwaysguessing]

Love is also about letting go, and understanding when things must come to an end.
My cousin keeping her father dying of completely metastisized cancer - 85 years old - on life support even though he would be unable to breathe if off of it as well as in tremendous pain for every waking moment - that is not love. Love is not clinging to a terrible quality of life for fear of what happens if the known becomes the unknown. Which is what my cousin was doing, and what you seem to be doing.

I still maintain that a lot of people confuse attachment for love, fear of loss for love, and erotic/psychological pleasure for love. Given your previous comments - particularly about the sex - you have not really made it clear whether what you have is love rather than attachment.

The bold is true. Though I think my situation is not comparable to your cousin's because my girlfriend is not dying. She is young and has a lot of potential in life, which I would like to see her realize. This is not a lost cause. I am often frustrated by her irrationality, but overall I am hopeful that she will ultimately grow to be able to live a more satisfying and productive life.

It would be interesting to know how I would feel about her if we stopped having sex, but that does not seem practical or necessary at the moment. I think my emotional attachment is independent, but there is no way to prove it.

 

[sbat]

If a person has an issue that cannot be resolved by one or two years of therapy, the prognosis just isn't good.

People don't change if there is no incentive to change. If she knows that she can guilt you into being their for her and providing support, what need does she have to change? The same goes for you. You will maintain the status quo until you have incentive to do so - the evidence is already overwhelming against her, so it's probably likely that she'll have to do something very bad and painful to you to take the blinders off.

Also, in terms of getting pregnant, never ever underestimate the lengths that a nutjob will go to to get what they want.

The bold is true. Though I think my situation is not comparable to your cousin's because my girlfriend is not dying. She is young and has a lot of potential in life, which I would like to see her realize. This is not a lost cause. I am often frustrated by her irrationality, but overall I am hopeful that she will ultimately grow to be able to live a more satisfying and productive life.

It would be interesting to know how I would feel about her if we stopped having sex, but that does not seem practical or necessary at the moment. I think my emotional attachment is independent, but there is no way to prove it.

 

[alwaysguessing]

If a person has an issue that cannot be resolved by one or two years of therapy, the prognosis just isn't good.

People don't change if there is no incentive to change. If she knows that she can guilt you into being their for her and providing support, what need does she have to change? The same goes for you. You will maintain the status quo until you have incentive to do so - the evidence is already overwhelming against her, so it's probably likely that she'll have to do something very bad and painful to you to take the blinders off.

Also, in terms of getting pregnant, never ever underestimate the lengths that a nutjob will go to to get what they want.

Good points. I guess the sticking point for me is whether or not I should be hopeful that she will continue to make sufficient progress in therapy and life in general. She has made great progress so far, so I am still hopeful at this point. She may never rid herself of jealousy, but she may learn to manage it. The jealousy problem is relatively insignificant, anyhow, compared to her dependency issues. I want to see her get to the point where she is no longer afraid of being alone. It's fine for her to want to be with someone. It's not good that she is motivated by fear and anxiety.

I do not deny that she could get herself pregnant. I accept it and plan to handle it accordingly, if I must. On the other hand, any girl I sleep with could get pregnant. So, it's a risk I face whether I stay with this particular girl or not.

 

[helgaleena]

Thank you for sharing that, it reminds me of a bible verse.

This is my favorite part

"Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed;
For love is sufficient unto love."

What a beautiful and germane quote! Thank you. He has chosen. We have given our thoughts, and they have helped him realize to what extent he has chosen.

As for children, best to avoid them, so either get clipped or get her clipped. Or both. May you live happily ever after with your student.

 

[alwaysguessing]

As for children, best to avoid them, so either get clipped or get her clipped. Or both.

Don't you think we're a bit young for that? At 24 and 26, we each have years to change our minds and decide that we really do want kids, and that might not even be with each other.

Do you think that everyone who has sex with someone that they don't want kids with at the moment, should be permanently sterilized? Or just people who are in therapy? Either way it seems like an extreme and unnecessary measure.

An unplanned child is not doomed to eternal misery. My friend had twins with a "psycho", that he woudn't even consider marrying, and he went through hell for the first few years. Now they have grown up to be successful adults and have provided him with sweet, adorable grandchildren. He married another woman and they have a great life together. He's not sure what happened to the psycho.

Children do not bind their parents together at the hip for all eternity.

 

[helgaleena]

Don't you think we're a bit young for that? At 24 and 26, we each have years to change our minds and decide that we really do want kids, and that might not even be with each other.

Do you think that everyone who has sex with someone that they don't want kids with at the moment, should be permanently sterilized? Or just people who are in therapy? Either way it seems like an extreme and unnecessary measure.

An unplanned child is not doomed to eternal misery. My friend had twins with a "psycho", that he woudn't even consider marrying, and he went through hell for the first few years. Now they have grown up to be successful adults and have provided him with sweet, adorable grandchildren. He married another woman and they have a great life together. He's not sure what happened to a psycho.

Children do not bind their parents together at the hip for all eternity.

Actually, they do.

And who brought those children up, him or the 'psycho' ? Would you be willing to take sole custody of a child if it became necessary? Would you be willing to mitigate bad parenting by the other progenitor at every turn for eighteen plus years? Think hard on it, that's all.

 

[helgaleena]

And know that I wish you both well. There are just too many unhappy children in our world to not consider the issue carefully.

 

[Incocknito]

I had a suicidal ex. I say had because she's not with me anymore.








I stopped talking to her because I knew I couldn't help her and at that time she probably didn't want help from anyone. She's engaged to be married now and seems very happy.

sbat's advice demonstrates my point. Sometimes when you care about someone, its better to leave them than to stay with them for selfish reasons.

You should leave this girl. But maybe you're actually a needy sort of person yourself and you want to have her on call for sex. If that's the case then who is more psycho - the boy or the girl?

 

[alwaysguessing]

Actually, they do.

And who brought those children up, him or the 'psycho' ? Would you be willing to take sole custody of a child if it became necessary? Would you be willing to mitigate bad parenting by the other progenitor at every turn for eighteen plus years? Think hard on it, that's all.

She raised them for about 14 years while he went to college in another state. Then they moved out with him and stayed with him through high school and college. He said it wasn't fun, lots of court time, etc. But I can see that it worked out in the end. At the same time, I've known plenty of planned kids, raised in strong marriages, that turned out to be losers.

I guess I would be willing to do whatever is necessary. Of course those are questions that any sexually active person should ask themselves. I think it's smart to use one or two forms of protection, but permanent sterilization should be reserved for people that already have kids, or are to the point where they would have, in general.

 

[alwaysguessing]

sbat's advice demonstrates my point. Sometimes when you care about someone, its better to leave them than to stay with them for selfish reasons.

You should leave this girl. But maybe you're actually a needy sort of person yourself and you want to have her on call for sex. If that's the case then who is more psycho - the boy or the girl?

Is it selfish to want a better life for her, and to help her to realize it? Or is it selfish to have sex with someone that wants to have sex with you? Does that make her selfish as well? Is anyone that has sex, yet finds certain aspects of their partner to be in need of attention, demonstrating selfishness?

Why do you think I should leave her? Do you think her life would improve, and how so? What if she killed herself, or instead moved on to a string of unsatisfying relationships with abusive or controlling men? What if some loser got her pregnant, and left her to take care of it by herself? How would she handle all that?

You seem to have a very narrow perspective. I am not sure how you have come to your conclusions.

 

[Incocknito]

Well I think she could find a boyfriend who is willing to spend time with her that doesn't involve intercourse.

She could find a boyfriend who actually wants to go to therapy with her.

She could find a boyfriend who actually cared about her, wanted a child with her and made her happy. You obviously don't make her happy; you make her jealous.

But you seem to think that you are the best she can do and you are unwilling to let her go. If you really are the best she can do she will find her way back to you.

But its clear that you don't care for her as person as much as you care for her as a place to put your penis.

She is in an "unsatisfying relationship" right now. Since that seems to bother you why don't you free her from the "unsatisfying relationship" and break up with her?

You are in an unsatisfying relationship too.

 

[dolfette]

I really do appreciate your concern, but I'm afraid that you are right. I am doomed.

I read this at the start of the relationship, and I thought it was a sad way to view love. Sad but true.

Kahlil Gibran on Love (ignore the god stuff)

yes, i own that book. i much prefer the chapter on marriage though.

Kahlil Gibran on Marriage

Love one another, but make not a bond of love:
Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music.

Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
And stand together yet not too near together:
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.

it's good advice. this doom shit makes me sad because i don't actively dislike you, kid.

 

[blkbro510]

I voted fatal attraction. Here's a question for you. When the last time you hung out with your buddies, or best friend. Is she taking all your time. Do you have to ask permission to do anything or go any where.

I was at the grocery store with my girlfriend, heading to checkout, and I went to the first available lane. The cashier was cute. I quickly paid for my stuff and left. I spoke as little as possibe to avoid the perception of flirting, and even avoided eye contact!

As we leave the store my girlfriend is silent and quicly walks ahead of me. I asked what the problem was, and she explained that she was mad because I walked past "two open lanes" to get to the cute cashier. I only remember seeing one open lane, and the customer was sliding her debit card to pay. I figured there was no reason to stand there and wait for her to get her receipt and so forth. So I went to the next lane.

I explained this and she was still mad. Then as we talk about it more, she begins to appear remorseful. She does not apologize for making me feel bad, or admit that she was wrong, but she wishes she didn't have those thoughts. She has been in therapy for about 9 months, and believes that she has "improved" with regards to her jealousy problem. Based on yesterday's interaction, I really don't think she has. At least, not enough.

 

[sbat]

My last comment:

There is love as something that brings life
and there is love that is a burden, an obligation

One gives you the strength to overcome inevitable suffering
The other drags you into it, with no end in sight

If you can't see her as someone capable of being a decent mother, if you feel she lacks that strength, how will she support you when you need it?

It is complete and utter folly to go into a long term relationship with the expectation of changing the other person, because it is not your job or your place to change them. It's up to her - and to now, on your description, she lacks the maturity necessary for the honesty and self-awareness needed to make that change for herself.

 

[dolfette]

please don't ever have kids with her.
if you stay get the snip.
having a crazy mother isn't something to wish on any child.

 

[helgaleena]

What if she killed herself, or instead moved on to a string of unsatisfying relationships with abusive or controlling men? What if some loser got her pregnant, and left her to take care of it by herself? How would she handle all that?

The fact that you do not allow these 'what ifs' to take place shows that you are just as jealous and controlling of her, underneath your annoyance, as she is of you. Just admit it and start doing back to her what she does to you, acting jealous if she looks at any other male. It will give her a taste of it and even things out between you.

Both of you are obsessively protective. It must be love.

 

[nicenycdick]

Both of you are obsessively protective. It must be love.

LOL. And we all know how irrational love is...

 

[alwaysguessing]

Well I think she could find a boyfriend who is willing to spend time with her that doesn't involve intercourse.

She could find a boyfriend who actually wants to go to therapy with her.

She could find a boyfriend who actually cared about her, wanted a child with her and made her happy. You obviously don't make her happy; you make her jealous.

But you seem to think that you are the best she can do and you are unwilling to let her go. If you really are the best she can do she will find her way back to you.

But its clear that you don't care for her as person as much as you care for her as a place to put your penis.

She is in an "unsatisfying relationship" right now. Since that seems to bother you why don't you free her from the "unsatisfying relationship" and break up with her?

You are in an unsatisfying relationship too.

Now, are you being sincere, or just trying to push my buttons?

Did you read about all the stuff I have done for her? I put her on my health insurance after only 6 months, got her to quit her oppressing job, completely supported her for 8 months while she just relaxed and gathered back her sanity and resolve. Through personal connections, I arranged for her to meet with a new doctor, who supported her decision to stop the medications which were making her sick. I had to push her hard for this, because she was afraid of the person she might become without the meds. Eventually she told me that it was the nicest thing anyone had ever done for her in her entire life. Once she was all set with that, I had to motivate her to go back to work and did a lot of the legwork to help her find a decent job. Though she resisted, I encouraged her to make friends with her new coworkers. I suggested that she join them for drinks, go with them to the gym, etc. Eventually she developed some great relationships which have really helped to stabilize her mood and improve her self confidence. Finally I located a therapist and pushed her into that as well, and she is clearly satisfied with the results.

You probably didn't realize all that. In any case, I believe you are overstepping with your assertion that I see her as nothing but a place to put my penis. Actually, now that I think about it, you seem to be ignoring a lot of what I have said, and selectively griping about a few minor details in my posts. Is this somehow personal for you? In the interest of science, I will address your points:

Well I think she could find a boyfriend who is willing to spend time with her that doesn't involve intercourse.

As I already said, we regularly go out to dinner and functions with my friends and her friends. There is no intercourse involved in those occasions.

She could find a boyfriend who actually wants to go to therapy with her.

I already said that I can't go to therapy because of my job. What good will I be to her if I lose my job and can no longer support myself? Why should I risk my job to seek therapy regarding a problem which is based in her mind?

She could find a boyfriend who actually cared about her, wanted a child with her and made her happy. You obviously don't make her happy; you make her jealous.

You think I should have a child with someone that is heavily involved in therapy, lives with her parents, and routinely threatens suicide? Are you for real with that?

Also, please explain how I am the source of her jealousy. Is it my fault that other women exist and I must interact with them sometimes in day to day life? Should I just never leave the house or what?

What am I doing that is so obviously causing her distress?

But you seem to think that you are the best she can do and you are unwilling to let her go. If you really are the best she can do she will find her way back to you.

Damn right I'm about the best she can do. In fact, I'm better than the best. She is plain lucky to have me in her life. Her ex boyfriend went to prison for attempted murder. You think she would be better off with the likes of him? I can't let her go because she does not want to go. I would have to forcefully push her away, and it would emotionally destroy her. Then, if she gets knocked up, killed, or trapped in an abusive relationship, how exactly is she going to find her way back to me? Plus, am I supposed to remain single until she begs me to take her back? Or am I just supposed to dump whoever I end up with when that fateful day comes. Why would I let her go just to take her back anyway? I just can't imagine how these events you are imagining would progress in real life.

She is in an "unsatisfying relationship" right now. Since that seems to bother you why don't you free her from the "unsatisfying relationship" and break up with her?

How is the relationship unsatisfying for her? You make is sound like all her problems are somehow my fault. Please tell me how I have wronged her or caused her mental distress.

I do not want to break up with her because I love her and I believe that she is better off having me in her life. She feels that way also. I believe I am the one person in her life that advocates for her independence and mental stability.

I voted fatal attraction. Here's a question for you. When the last time you hung out with your buddies, or best friend. Is she taking all your time. Do you have to ask permission to do anything or go any where.

You are wise to ask that. It was a big problem for me until recently when I asked her to move out. I now spend a lot more time with with my friends and also in solitude, which has greatly improved my mental and physical health.

It is complete and utter folly to go into a long term relationship with the expectation of changing the other person

I do not expect to change her, but to support her.

The fact that you do not allow these 'what ifs' to take place shows that you are just as jealous and controlling of her, underneath your annoyance, as she is of you. Just admit it and start doing back to her what she does to you, acting jealous if she looks at any other male. It will give her a taste of it and even things out between you.

I am controlling because I am unwilling to force her out of my life as I watch her heart break, her life disintegrate, and her mental stability crumble to the point where she considers suicide? I am jealous because I do not want other men to hurt her as they have in the past? You are boggling my mind here.

I do not believe it would be healthy for me to stoop to her level, emulating her jealousy and playing sophomoric head games. I have explained how she makes me feel, why I believe she is wrong, and offered suggestions for managing the issue. I think that's a better way to handle it.

She will perceive no jealousy from me, because I really have none. She recently went away for a bachelorette weekend. I was pleased to see her have fun and spend quality bonding time with her peers. When she returned, I found a "scavenger hunt" list, which basically consisted of flirtatious interactions with strange men. She had a check mark for the item: "let a man put money in your bra". I asked if she did that and she timidly admitted and then became teary. I laughed and said it was no big deal.

I'm just not good at being fake. I have trouble showing emotions which I do not possess. She knows that I harbor no jealousy, even though she often tries to evoke it within me. I fail to see how pretending to be jealous would improve our relationship. If anything, I would expect that my lack of jealousy would make it apparent to her that I am confident in our relationship, and it would motivate her to feel that confidence for herself. Maybe I'm wrong about that. In any case, she has expressed appreciation for my sincere trust in her, noting that several of her friends suffer in relationship with jealous and controlling men.

Those girls consider their men controlling, because they do not want their girlfriends to go anywhere without them, demand sex even when the women do not want it, criticize their looks, etc. I fail to see how I could be described as jealous and controlling, but perhaps you could elaborate on that some?