Extreme Jealousy?

[alwaysguessing]

Hey dolfette... You're a sweetheart. :kiss:

:smile:

 

[Gillette]

It would be interesting to know how I would feel about her if we stopped having sex, but that does not seem practical or necessary at the moment. I think my emotional attachment is independent, but there is no way to prove it.

Practical?

What is so practical about continuing to have sex with her? It's convenient?

Stop fucking her. It's fucking with her mind. And yours.

Sex, particularly "amazing" sex bathes us in endorphins. It feels great but it isn't the same thing as love. Try forgoing it and see if you still feel as attracted to the person without the love hormone flooding your system.
What I've read of you speaking of her doesn't suggest love so much as pity.
It almost sounds like you see her like she's a problem dog rescued from the pound who will be put down without you to protect her. She's not. She's a human being with the ability to make choices that will affect her life.

On that, while you're still fucking her and calling her your girlfriend but sending her away when she misbehaves she's not likely to find her own personal power/ center/ balance/ whatever because she's chasing yours.

People in AA are discouraged from being in relationships because until they find their own strength/ balance dealing with another person can send them tumbling back to square one. For someone dealing with emotional dependency issues this is especially crucial. Chasing you and the standards you set like some a carrot on a stick is not helping her. So long as she sees you as an option for her to depend on (and be assured, while you're going on dates, fucking and calling each other bf/gf, she does) she will never learn how to be the independent person you claim to want her to become. She might learn to fake it for a while, but she won't actually be.

She's in therapy, good start. But you won't see him despite his recommendation that you do so? I'm sorry, I'm not in the least bit sympathetic to you at this point. I'm doing my best to think of a single occupation that would be adversely effected by your attending a session for the purpose of bettering a loved one's treatment particularly one that conversely doesn't see having a wingnut girlfriend as a poor reflection.

If you love her so much that you're willing to sacrifice your life, happiness and having children it shouldn't be too much of a stretch for you to quit your job and get another that won't frown on you helping her counselling along. Put your money where your mouth is.

You wanted her to get therapy and now that she has you're hindering her treatment.
She's in therapy for emotional dependency issues.
She's emotionally dependent on YOU.
For her therapist to get a better understanding of her problems they need to see YOU, one of the areas of her life where her issues are triggered.

If that concept is too simple consider that her therapist may want a discussion with you so that your objectives and standards of progress are in alignment. It doesn't help her if she's being led in two directions simultaneously. He may also have suggestions on ways to handle her episodes (for lack of a better word) that won't cause her to backslide.

Whatever the therapist's reason for wanting to meet with you, he has one. Do it. Not in a fucking "year or so", NOW! Seriously, If you think you know better than a professional why the hell did you send her to one?

Help her on her journey or get the fuck out of her way.

 

[Gillette]

How is the relationship unsatisfying for her? You make is sound like all her problems are somehow my fault. Please tell me how I have wronged her or caused her mental distress.

Just by being there. Alcoholics aren't able to deal with alcohol without hurting themselves. There's no deliberate cruelty on the alcohol's part. It just happens. Emotional dependency is her problem, she's emotionally dependent on you. You're hurting her development just by being there.

I do not want to break up with her because I love her and I believe that she is better off having me in her life. She feels that way also.

She's emotionally dependent! Of course she feels that way.

I believe I am the one person in her life that advocates for her independence and mental stability.

That voice, that sentiment needs to be hers or it will never work.

You are wise to ask that. It was a big problem for me until recently when I asked her to move out. I now spend a lot more time with with my friends and also in solitude, which has greatly improved my mental and physical health.

Solitude may well also be what she needs. Many alcoholics need to hit rock bottom before they are truly motivated to work on their problems. You providing a crutch for her means she will never reach that state of being truly alone and independent of necessity.

 

[alwaysguessing]

What is so practical about continuing to have sex with her?

I suppose nothing when viewed linearly like that. Yet it seems impractical to continue a relationship without sex. The desire is too great for either of us to suppress. I can't be alone with her and decline sex if she offers, which she always does. It's not something to be proud of, but I don't think it makes me unique to the vast majority of men.

She's in therapy, good start. But you won't see him despite his recommendation that you do so? I'm sorry, I'm not in the least bit sympathetic to you at this point. I'm doing my best to think of a single occupation that would be adversely effected by your attending a session for the purpose of bettering a loved one's treatment particularly one that conversely doesn't see having a wingnut girlfriend as a poor reflection.

I hate to sound rude, but just because you cannot think of it does not mean that it does not exist. You seem fairly sure of yourself here, so I guess you either think that I am lying or simply mistaken about the nuances of the job that I've held for four years. Not sure how you picked up that bias, but I'm afraid I can't explain enough to overcome it.

Though I will say, there is no need for my job to be made aware of the details of my sexual relationships or the mental health of my casual associates. I never made it a point to announce to my boss that my girlfriend is a "wingnut", because he never asked, and he simply does not need to know.

OTOH, A documented visit to "such-and-such psychological centers" provides evidence of an issue that could easily be misinterpreted or blown out of proportion, especially by someone with an agenda. Kind of a shame that I have to explain all this, rather than people just take me on my word. What reason would I have to lie to a bunch of strangers on the internet about this?

If you love her so much that you're willing to sacrifice your life, happiness and having children it shouldn't be too much of a stretch for you to quit your job and get another that won't frown on you helping her counselling along. Put your money where your mouth is.

I don't believe I am sacrificing any of those things. I have a happy and satisfying life, and I've never thought of children as a necessity. I would be happy to have kids if the opportunity presents, and without them, I am free to pursue endeavors that would fulfill my life in other ways.

I would say that you presume to know too much about my career path and financial situation.

Solitude may well also be what she needs... You providing a crutch for her means she will never reach that state of being truly alone and independent of necessity.

You can't be naive enough to think that she will remain celibate if I simply refrain from fucking her myself. She is a young, attractive woman, and will likely go in search of sexual validation, if she finds herself suddenly cast from the relationship which has served as her emotional backbone for almost three years. You yourself allow that she is emotionally dependent. Am I to believe that this dependency is exclusive to me alone? Is it impossible to conceive that she might move on to another relationship, where the problem would persist just the same, if not worse? It anything, a relationship with a less scrupulous individual could be far more damaging considering her known vulnerability and track record.

This is where I am lost: Why are so many of you convinced that she would be better off without me, considering that she would likely end up in another sexual relationship before too long anyhow?

 

[alwaysguessing]

FTR, her therapist supports her decision to fuck me. Says it's part of the healing process or something. Unfortunately, Gillette, this eliminates the plausibility of half of your argument. Either it's okay for us to fuck, or the therapist is not infallible... you may choose which. :biggrin:

 

[Gillette]

FTR, her therapist supports her decision to fuck me. Says it's part of the healing process or something. Unfortunately, Gillette, this eliminates the plausibility of half of your argument. Either it's okay for us to fuck, or the therapist is not infallible... you may choose which. :biggrin:

Ha! Good one.

I said help her or the journey or get out of her way. If you're not leaving and you're in agreement with her therapist that the sex is theraputic then I think you need to commit fully to her treatment.

I don't presume to know anything of your job or career path but you say that your having a meeting with her therapist would damage that. I've tried to imagine how but I can't. Doctor, law enforcement, politician, celebrity, teacher and I still can't conceive how a single meeting would throw a wrench into your work. Therapists can seek therapy and not lose their jobs because of it for crying out loud.

Surely there is a way to arrange to meet with him outside of his office. Go have lunch somewhere, coffee, raquetball, golf. I don't want to be a bitch here but to push her into therapy but then refuse to speak with him yourself when doing so is requested by him to help him treat her strikes me as both stubborn and stupid.

Given your willingness to martyr yourself in every other area of your life, this "it'll hurt my job" thing is nonsense. If you lose your job because of it (highly unlikely) get another job doing something else. You speak as though seeing a therapist will make you unemployable. It won't.

 

[nicenycdick]

AG...it has become clear to me that you really, really, really care for this person. Am I wrong in saying that you love her deeply? I don't know why you would work so hard for her happiness if that was not the case. That being said...don't ask us any further. We do some extreme things for those we truly love. Work at it as long as you can...maybe you will make a difference. Maybe you and she can create a life that fulfills both of you. You are not a stupid man, and you will know, I think, when it can no longer be.

 

[D_Fletchyer Flagpole]

I think jealousy is a subjective thing. If you and your girl are good with one another, you don't usually have many problems.

If your gf/wife is somewhat or very jealous, then you definitely have some issues with your relationship. That said, I think we all know guys can't help but look! We see a cute girl, we are definitely going to check her out. I always follow the look, don't touch policy in the store. As long as I look at the merchandise, but don't touch it, I can't get into any trouble.

I'm also lucky in that if my wife and I are in the grocery store, she will actually go to a register with a cute cashier. There is a method in her madness. I get to look at the eye candy in the aisle and when we get home, she gets to help release any tension the eye candy may have caused. Win/win for both of us.

 

[petite]

I'm suffering from a little bit of whiplash. Just two weeks ago you seemed to be very angry and unhappy with your girlfriend, which is why I suggested that you should leave her, especially after learning more about how irrationally jealous she is. I lived with that once, and it was the worst relationship of my entire life. I was miserable. I wish I had been wise enough to realize that he would never change and I should have ended it much earlier.

Now you seem to be talking yourself into staying with her and you sound much more understanding and loving towards her. The anger seems to be gone.

I am very glad to see that now you recognize that your relationship with your girlfriend is not normal. Not all women treat men the way that your girlfriend treats you, and no one deserves that kind of treatment.

My girl's high school boyfriend used to abuse her physically and psychologically, gave her bruises, constantly insulted her, never let her go out with her friends, and she used to blow him 5x per day, and it still sounds like she's in love with him when she talks about him. The relationship only ended because he finally went to prison.

I was a nice guy, complimented her all the time, paid for everything, did whatever she wanted, etc. She never gave me head (and told me what she used to do for her ex!), told me I had to explicitly "ask for it" and when I did, she laughed at me.

Since then I've gradually learned to be less of a "nice guy" and more of an "asshole". And it's truly working to my advantage. Sorry guys and girls, but that's the reality of female psychology (in general).

It's not. The way your girlfriend acts isn't normal. The way your girlfriend treats you isn't the way that other women would treat you. Please don't think that all women are like her and it doesn't get any better than this.

Me too, though I'm a little older than that now. I've noticed it with myself and my friends around that age and now, still, a few years later. Basically it's like everything is the man's fault no matter the effort he makes. If the girls don't feel like being good then they just claim their emotional needs are not being met, and use it as an excuse to do whatever they want. I put up with it back then but I have finally learned that I have way more power in a relationship than society would like me to believe.

Again, the way your girlfriend treats you isn't the way other women would treat you. Please don't generalize from your experience with her. It makes her behavior seem like it isn't as bad as it is. You need to recognize that she's doing something other women wouldn't do to you.

Exactly. I've never cried about problems in a relationship, but I've gotten depressed, i.e. lethargic, gained weight, no longer interested in activities I used to enjoy, etc. I just shutdown. For an acute response, I've also gotten pissed off and punched through doors and stuff. I just hate that. Makes me feel so weak.

Living alone, this is no longer a problem, because I can always remove myself from an infuriating situation or argument, return to what is mine, that which I have complete control over, and everything else goes away. But when a shitty attitude is thrown in your face nonstop 24/7, no matter what you do to counter it, I can't help but eventually pop.

This sounds miserable. She makes you miserable. You don't have to be miserable.

Oh certainly. My girlfriends were always trying to control me and tell me what to do. What to eat, how to dress, who my friends should be, etc. They were both so imposing and angry. I've been insulted, threatened, etc. "If I ever find out that you had lunch with another girl, I'll fucking kill you, and I WILL find out!"

It's been a fucking blast. Now I've said fuck this relationship crap. Come over when you want to fuck and then leave. The rest of the time I'll do whatever the fuck I want.

The anger you're expressing here, it comes from somewhere, and I think it comes from being treated badly by a woman who claims to love you but doesn't treat you well. You deserve better than this. You need to find better women than those two.

I believe my friend's relationships are just as bad. It's just that they don't mind being controlled as much, so they don't end up fighting as much or as bad.

This is not true. Other people's relationships are not this bad.

I don't know what your friend's relationships are like and I hope they aren't as bad as you've made yours sound, but a good relationship doesn't involve controlling behavior and that much strife and unhappiness.

 

[dolfette]

today my sis revealed that 8 months after escaping her loony she's concidering going back.

i think of her, i think of you, i think of her.

i want to hit something with a hammer.

 

[alwaysguessing]

petite, thank you for your thoughtful response.

Indeed, I tend to become angry, annoyed, or unhappy when I am subjected to a severe episode of jealousy or some other form of emotional backlash. I can control my reaction but I cannot help the way her actions make me feel. Nonetheless, I believe she is a decent person overall, and the occasional outburst of irrational behavior does not preclude me from loving her as a whole.

Indeed, I recognize that her actions are not normal nor representative of the average woman. I already confessed to acting like an insensitive jerk in that early post of mine, and I now freely admit that the statement in question was an unfair generalization made by me.

Still, I can't deny that the LTR's of my friends appear to be just as bad, if not worse than mine. I've drawn that conclusion based on my observations of their interactions and behavior, and complaints from my friends. Some of the jealousy and hurtful outbursts of those women make my girlfriend look like a saint. I feel lucky to have her when I think of how my friends are suffering. Plus, they don't get nearly as much sex. A couple of my married friends get no sex at all. To me, sex is the most crucial aspect of a sexual relationship. Maybe it seems shallow, but I feel very lucky and appreciative to have the sex that I am getting.

The miserable situation, that I previously referred to, actually came to an end about 3 months ago, when I asked her to move out of my house. Since that has transpired, every facet of our relationship has realized substantial improvement.

 

[alwaysguessing]

today my sis revealed that 8 months after escaping her loony she's concidering going back.

i think of her, i think of you, i think of her.

i want to hit something with a hammer.

It might make you feel better to pick up an 8 to 12 pound sledgehammer, and just beat the shit out of a tire. Seriously, it's a great release for aggression and it provides a killer workout. Good for both your body and mind. :smile:

Seriously though, check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGI9u_vpHS4

 

[dolfette]

it's no fun if nothing breaks. sheesh!

 

[sbat]

it's no fun if nothing breaks. sheesh!

Fine! Try it on people. You get the same workout

 

[sbat]

Perhaps a good read for you
Emotional BS: Stop the Hidden Plague Threatening Your Relationships

petite, thank you for your thoughtful response.

Indeed, I tend to become angry, annoyed, or unhappy when I am subjected to a severe episode of jealousy or some other form of emotional backlash. I can control my reaction but I cannot help the way her actions make me feel. Nonetheless, I believe she is a decent person overall, and the occasional outburst of irrational behavior does not preclude me from loving her as a whole.

Indeed, I recognize that her actions are not normal nor representative of the average woman. I already confessed to acting like an insensitive jerk in that early post of mine, and I now freely admit that the statement in question was an unfair generalization made by me.

Still, I can't deny that the LTR's of my friends appear to be just as bad, if not worse than mine. I've drawn that conclusion based on my observations of their interactions and behavior, and complaints from my friends. Some of the jealousy and hurtful outbursts of those women make my girlfriend look like a saint. I feel lucky to have her when I think of how my friends are suffering. Plus, they don't get nearly as much sex. A couple of my married friends get no sex at all. To me, sex is the most crucial aspect of a sexual relationship. Maybe it seems shallow, but I feel very lucky and appreciative to have the sex that I am getting.

The miserable situation, that I previously referred to, actually came to an end about 3 months ago, when I asked her to move out of my house. Since that has transpired, every facet of our relationship has realized substantial improvement.

 

[alwaysguessing]

Surely there is a way to arrange to meet with him outside of his office. Go have lunch somewhere, coffee, raquetball, golf. I don't want to be a bitch here but to push her into therapy but then refuse to speak with him yourself when doing so is requested by him to help him treat her strikes me as both stubborn and stupid.

This is a good idea. I will look into the possibility of an off-the-record meeting.

As to the other stuff about my job... sorry, but you just don't understand. And I'm not martyring the rest of my life. I already said that my life is happy and satisfying. Do you not believe me? I see my friends, I workout, I read, I waste time on LPSG.org :laugh2: I'm not passing every waking moment with wailing and gnashing of teeth. And I enjoy most of the time that I spend with my girlfriend. Her outbursts are not nearly as frequent or severe as they used to be.

But I'll be the first to admit that I often act stubborn and stupid. I am human, afterall. :smile:

Nicenyc, thank you for your kind words. I do believe I love her deeply. I just can't help the way I feel about her. It seems instinctive that I must take care of her.

I did not come here looking for relationship advice, but I apprecaite everyone's replies just the same. Your reponses have given me much to think about.

 

[petite]

petite, thank you for your thoughtful response.

Indeed, I tend to become angry, annoyed, or unhappy when I am subjected to a severe episode of jealousy or some other form of emotional backlash. I can control my reaction but I cannot help the way her actions make me feel. Nonetheless, I believe she is a decent person overall, and the occasional outburst of irrational behavior does not preclude me from loving her as a whole.

That's just a normal reaction.

Indeed, I recognize that her actions are not normal nor representative of the average woman. I already confessed to acting like an insensitive jerk in that early post of mine, and I now freely admit that the statement in question was an unfair generalization made by me.

I wasn't pointing out any kind of jerkiness. Those posts sound much different in context with the other information you've provided about your relationship. In context, they sound full of anger from your frustration with your girlfriend.

My point about the generalizations, about believing that she treats you the same way other women would treat you, is that it excuses her inexcusable behavior because you're normalizing it. It's not normal. It's not okay for a woman to treat you like that.

Still, I can't deny that the LTR's of my friends appear to be just as bad, if not worse than mine. I've drawn that conclusion based on my observations of their interactions and behavior, and complaints from my friends. Some of the jealousy and hurtful outbursts of those women make my girlfriend look like a saint.

That's terrible! That sort of behavior is not common among our friends at all. I hate to think that you tolerate being treated like that because you know other people who get treated worse. Maybe your girlfriend acts like that because she thinks that she's a better girlfriend than your friend's girlfriends? Maybe she sees the way they act and emulates them? I don't know what's going on there. The women I know don't do things like that.

I feel lucky to have her when I think of how my friends are suffering. Plus, they don't get nearly as much sex. A couple of my married friends get no sex at all. To me, sex is the most crucial aspect of a sexual relationship. Maybe it seems shallow, but I feel very lucky and appreciative to have the sex that I am getting.

Sex is also important to me. It's good that that aspect of your relationships works.

The miserable situation, that I previously referred to, actually came to an end about 3 months ago, when I asked her to move out of my house. Since that has transpired, every facet of our relationship has realized substantial improvement.

When you wrote those posts, you sounded very angry at that very moment. If the situation improved 3 months ago, why were you so angry two weeks ago? I'm not trying to be contradictory or give you a hard time, it just seems like you aren't recognizing how mad you were at her very recently.

 

[alwaysguessing]

You raise a good point about my perception being skewed by my observable surrounding. But I don't think it's leading me to endure more hurt than I truly think is fair. At least I hope not. If anything it just helps me to appreciate the good things more, I think.

I don't think I am angry about those things, nor was I when I made the comments. I think my communication just kinda sucks. I mean I can't deny that I'm not happy to think about my past hardships, but I do feel that it's behind me and I'm over it.

 

[helgaleena]

You did not come here for relationship advice? But you posted a question in the Relationships forum!

And please stop denying yourself feelings and reactions to what your girlfriend stirs up in you. You seem committed to her so make sure you play fair. Get off your high horse now and then and be just as emotional as she allows herself to be on the subject of your obvious love.

 

[Countryguy63]

petite, thank you for your thoughtful response.

Indeed, I tend to become angry, annoyed, or unhappy when I am subjected to a severe episode of jealousy or some other form of emotional backlash. I can control my reaction but I cannot help the way her actions make me feel. Nonetheless, I believe she is a decent person overall, and the occasional outburst of irrational behavior does not preclude me from loving her as a whole.

Indeed, I recognize that her actions are not normal nor representative of the average woman. I already confessed to acting like an insensitive jerk in that early post of mine, and I now freely admit that the statement in question was an unfair generalization made by me.

Still, I can't deny that the LTR's of my friends appear to be just as bad, if not worse than mine. I've drawn that conclusion based on my observations of their interactions and behavior, and complaints from my friends. Some of the jealousy and hurtful outbursts of those women make my girlfriend look like a saint. I feel lucky to have her when I think of how my friends are suffering. Plus, they don't get nearly as much sex. A couple of my married friends get no sex at all. To me, sex is the most crucial aspect of a sexual relationship. Maybe it seems shallow, but I feel very lucky and appreciative to have the sex that I am getting.

The miserable situation, that I previously referred to, actually came to an end about 3 months ago, when I asked her to move out of my house. Since that has transpired, every facet of our relationship has realized substantial improvement.

I hate to tell you, but this post realy makes it seem like you are settling for "at least better than what your friends have" :frown1:

Although, I have to say that the dismal outlook on m/f relationships is what drove my interest in dating women lower. Not specifically what you have said here, but experiencing and seeing the same or similar with me and my friends.