Ezekiel has Persia (Iran) top the list in Armageddon.

[dreamer20]

I think perhaps the arrogance you speak of is pertaining to religious leaders who have applied Ezekial to our times...Iran may be fucked now, but what about 30 years from now, or 50 or 100. Things could be so different. Are you so sure that what Ezekial wrote can't turn out to be so someday in the future?

Are you referring to Ezekiel #38 superlarge?

 

[B_superlarge]

Are you referring to Ezekiel #38 superlarge?

Yes. I haven't opened a Bible in a long time, but I think you have it right. Why, do you disagree with the common interpretation?

 

[mrkun]

I'm personally disgusted by the position of Azerbaijanis. They're ethnic Iranians, not Turks. Their native (Iranian) language was only completely replaced by Turkish in the last 200 years. Unfortunately, both they themselves as well as other Iranians think they're Turkish.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Only about half of Georgia is Christian and then only in the urban areas. The rural population is largely authentically pagan. Georgia is one of the few European places where Christianity has not completely penetrated over the years.

I've been to the Caucasus, so I have some interest (though not expertise) and I think you underestimate the proportion of Georgia that is Christian. But, be that as it may, the issue has to do with the percentage of Muslims, if we go back to your original comment. And fewer than 10 percent of the population is Muslim.

In my reference I'm talking about everything south of the Volga.

Fine, but what you said was the southern Caucasus. Now I'm clear on what you actually intended.

Look how many ethnic Azerbaijanis live in northern Iran. Iran has plenty of influence on Azerbaijan should Iran choose to use it as Azerbaijan holds the second largest population of Shia muslims in the world (just behind Iran itself). Many Azerbaijanis, however, identify themselves as Turkish and that's the main difference between the two countries. There are millions of Azerbaijani Turks living in Iran but they feel they're second class citizens, oppressed by Persian superiority. Here's another map showing the republics in question.
Despite this, southern Azerbaijan does have a movement to join Iran.

I believe the movement is truly weak. I may be wrong. The Azerbaijanis take a very relaxed view of Islam. When I was there, I was given round after round of vodka toasts. The young people on the streets of Baku could have stepped off an MTV soundstage. Everyone who expressed an opinion said that extremism would never take root in Azerbaijan.
The Azerbaijanis in Iran (who are, by the way, three times as numerous) are another kettle of fish entirely.

Dagestan is no more stable. Dagestan is a muslim republic though largely Sufist Sunni with a relatively small population of Azeri Shia. Since 2000 Dagestan has been in civil war (remember we don't read about these things in the west because Bushco made a deal with Putin to pressure media not to in exchange for silence in Iraq). There's a very good report released by the Russian and Eurasian Security Network (RES) on the situation in the northern (and southern) Caucasus. You have to download the txt/pdf document to read it.

Yes, Dagestan is quite another case ... though you would be clearer if you said it was far less stable.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

I'm personally disgusted by the position of Azerbaijanis. They're ethnic Iranians, not Turks. Their native (Iranian) language was only completely replaced by Turkish in the last 200 years. Unfortunately, both they themselves as well as other Iranians think they're Turkish.

Why would this bother you?
Anyway, the Azerbaijanis believe themselves Turkish only in the sense that they're speaking a Turkish language, mutually intelligible in many countries, including Turkey, to be sure, but also elsewhere in the Caucasus, in Cyprus, parts of the Balkans, Iraq and Syria, and Turkmenistan.
They've had that language for 400 years, not 200 years.
What does it mean to be ethnically Iranian anyway? Many Iranians are ethnically Persian, but many other ethnicities are also present.

 

[2322]

Thank you for your insight! What did you experience while you were there? How accurate are, do you believe, the reports I cited? It's so hard to be so far away relying on English-only third-hand sources.

I've been to the Caucasus, so I have some interest (though not expertise) and I think you underestimate the proportion of Georgia that is Christian. But, be that as it may, the issue has to do with the percentage of Muslims, if we go back to your original comment. And fewer than 10 percent of the population is Muslim.

It's odd. Georgia officially is Christian but what's Christian and what isn't is a bit of a mixed bag. Christianity has been around Georgia for a very long time but it hasn't gotten very far. There also seems to be a desire on the part of Georgia's government to sweep its paganism under the rug as an embarrassment. Here's a good paper on Highland Georgian Paganism. It's not just the northeast either. Throughout Georgia elements of Christianity blend with their pagan traditions to the point that Christian symbols are simply idioms for underlying pagan practices. Sure there are crosses all over the place but what do those crosses mean? Clearly they mean something radically different for rural Georgians than they do for Christians just anywhere else.

Fine, but what you said was the southern Caucasus. Now I'm clear on what you actually intended.

I believe the movement is truly weak. I may be wrong. The Azerbaijanis take a very relaxed view of Islam. When I was there, I was given round after round of vodka toasts. The young people on the streets of Baku could have stepped off an MTV soundstage. Everyone who expressed an opinion said that extremism would never take root in Azerbaijan.
The Azerbaijanis in Iran (who are, by the way, three times as numerous) are another kettle of fish entirely.

Yes, Dagestan is quite another case ... though you would be clearer if you said it was far less stable.

I wish I could be so certain of Azerbaijan. As to the geography, you're right. I should have included the entire region. Please tell me what you learned about the political situation there. All the scholarly papers out of Cambridge or Georgetown don't amount to being there. I'd love to know.

I think Iran would love to have a Southern Azerbaijan as a satellite state and, so far, has stayed hands-off in the region due to Russian pressure and bribery so yes, Azerbaijan should be fairly stable. Forgive me if I'm wary when I hear the classic, "It can't happen here," line.

 

[2322]

I'm personally disgusted by the position of Azerbaijanis. They're ethnic Iranians, not Turks. Their native (Iranian) language was only completely replaced by Turkish in the last 200 years. Unfortunately, both they themselves as well as other Iranians think they're Turkish.

But they're not treated as such. The Persians treat them as Turks, which is to say, poorly, and that's sad.

Short of Arabic, Turkish is the lingua franca of central Asia. You can speak Turkish from Albania to China and find plenty of people who will understand what you're saying.

 

[mrkun]

Why would this bother you?
Anyway, the Azerbaijanis believe themselves Turkish only in the sense that they're speaking a Turkish language, mutually intelligible in many countries, including Turkey, to be sure, but also elsewhere in the Caucasus, in Cyprus, parts of the Balkans, Iraq and Syria, and Turkmenistan.
They've had that language for 400 years, not 200 years.
What does it mean to be ethnically Iranian anyway? Many Iranians are ethnically Persian, but many other ethnicities are also present.

If you'll notice, I said "completely replaced." Persian isn't really an ethnicity per se; it's just a way to distinguish Iranians that don't identify as being part of a minority group. In Iran, the only people that can call themselves Persian (Farsi/Parsi) are those that are actually from the state of Fars, which is an area about the size of Ohio.

Iranian peoples - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[B_superlarge]

The recent stunt by Iranian boats is an example of how Iran could turn things into an International incident that could have possibly found a way to snowball. Will they do another something?

 

[mrkun]

The recent stunt by Iranian boats is an example of how Iran could turn things into an International incident that could have possibly found a way to snowball. Will they do another something?

Was "snowball" a sexual pun?

 

[simcha]

Oh, what is the crap about "Biblical" doomsday?

Ezekiel was talking to the people of his times who were captive and exiled in a foreign country. There is no prophesy for our times in Ezekiel.

And Armageddon or rather, Har Megiddo, is an ancient city, mountain, and valley, and not a disaster that will end the world. The only people who seem to place that particular significance on Armageddon are the Christians who freely interpret Hebrew Scripture for their own ends...

 

[JustAsking]

Oh, what is the crap about "Biblical" doomsday?

Ezekiel was talking to the people of his times who were captive and exiled in a foreign country. There is no prophesy for our times in Ezekiel.

And Armageddon or rather, Har Megiddo, is an ancient city, mountain, and valley, and not a disaster that will end the world. The only people who seem to place that particular significance on Armageddon are the Christians who freely interpret Hebrew Scripture for their own ends...

Roger that, Simcha. Its just a kind of arrogance.