Face it, the US economy is socialist

JTalbain

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Ugh, I am so tired of this socialism thing.

The US is capitalism. Always has been and it likely always will be.
The US is a hybrid, like most modern countries. Our police department, fire department, military, emergency rooms, medicare, medicaid, welfare, social security, etc. are socialist programs. Our graduated tax system is socialist in nature. We don't live in a purely capitalistic society, but honestly, I don't think most people realize how horrible that would be. Just ask this guy. Home uninsured. Firemen let it burn. Crazy capitalism? - CSMonitor.com
 

dandelion

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all of these barbs hurled about by the right-wing only deflect from the true path they have us on...GOP wants...

To add to the links above for socialism and fascism, the wiki definition of social democracy is:

Social democracy is officially a reformist democratic socialist political ideology. Social democracy supports legal entitlements in social rights for citizens. These are made up of universal access to public services such as: workers' compensation, universal health care, universal education, and other services such as child care and care for the elderly. Social democracy is connected with the trade union labour movement and supports collective bargaining rights for workers.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy#cite_note-2 Contemporary social democracy advocates freedom from discrimination based on differences of: ability/disability, age, class, ethnicity, gender, language, race, religion, and sexual orientation.

Social democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The article on fascism also says that social democracy is a form of socialism, so we come back to arguing about how tight a definition of the word socialism is meant.

I Do not want a hand out I work for my money.
But do you want a raise or perhaps you reckon you are paid too much? Do you want the government to impose laws on the company you work for about working conditions and whether they can pollute the country, or do you want the government to abolish these laws?
 

JTalbain

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I Do not want a hand out I work for my money.
That right there is a sticking point between supporters of socialist programs and people in America. People in socialist countries work for their money too. There are more taxes and more programs to help the less fortunate in a socialist country, but people do still work for their money. The difference in ideologies is simple to summarize; Capitalism is basically economic darwinism, whereas Socialism recognizes a duty to help the less fortunate in society. Very few places are truly a pure version of either.

But even in its most pure form, people still work and get paid under Socialism. In Capitalism's purest form, those who can't make it on their own are thrown to the wolves. I know which of the two I'd prefer.
 

jenngirl1975

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And it's ironic that it's the fundamentalist "bible thumpers" who are always pitching a fit about taxation! They have selective amnesia of a particular Matthew 22:21 in the New Testament of the Bible!

That right there is a sticking point between supporters of socialist programs and people in America. People in socialist countries work for their money too. There are more taxes and more programs to help the less fortunate in a socialist country, but people do still work for their money. The difference in ideologies is simple to summarize; Capitalism is basically economic darwinism, whereas Socialism recognizes a duty to help the less fortunate in society. Very few places are truly a pure version of either.

But even in its most pure form, people still work and get paid under Socialism. In Capitalism's purest form, those who can't make it on their own are thrown to the wolves. I know which of the two I'd prefer.
 

HUNGHUGE11X7

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Again, this is nonsense. Christian terrorists? Seriously? The least you could do is come out of the closet and admit that you're a communist.

This blatant display of ignorance makes me see I would be wasting my intellect in any further debate.
To call me a communist would be akin to calling George W Bush a genius!

QFT!

No dif at all between the taliban and the book burners of the bible belt.


EXACTLY.......... I should apologize to the "precious few" members in the GOP that are actually quite sane & some who I dearly love and respect but I still maintain the far right and the teabaggers of the GOP are CHRISTIAN TERRORISTS!



And it's ironic that it's the fundamentalist "bible thumpers" who are always pitching a fit about taxation! They have selective amnesia of a particular Matthew 22:21 in the New Testament of the Bible!


NOT ONLY THAT but they forget where it says it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a RICH man to enter the kingdom of God. They interpret that under the AYN RAND Bible as THROW THE POOR UNDER THE BUS AND SLOWLY RUN THEM OVER UNTIL THEY BEG FOR LIFE, FOR BREATH, THEN SILENTLY REMOVE THE PARASITES FROM LIFE. (I have read RAND, would the Repugnicans really worship her if they knew she was *GASP* an ATHEIST LESBIAN !!!!


HH
 

ConanTheBarber

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I have read RAND, would the Repugnicans really worship her if they knew she was *GASP* an ATHEIST LESBIAN !!!!

What is the proof of this? I've never seen any.
I suppose something in her manner might recall certain stereotypical ideas about the persona lesbians are supposed to have ... and usually don't.
But I've never seen any proof about Rand.
 
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Ryan10

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The US should be more Socialist. How is it fair that there's Billionaire's who help no-one like the Kardhasians while good, honest people that work hard are refused heath care because they don't have enough money. In my opinion, Socialism would fix a lot of the problems in most western countries.
 

dwa

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Ive heard it called fascist. That which is companies directed and controlled by government.

Capitalism would be the capital of the country held and controlled by the people individually as a market economy, government exists merely in defence and to regulate extremes domestically and support the courts.

Where as USA now has the money manufactured by government, debased in favour of government debt and an economy over 50% government. The laws regulate minute details down to whether you can eat cheese pasteurised or not.
Hopefully its obvious capitalism cannot be when government is the majority of activity

Socialism would apply if government nationalised industry and eliminated the idea of profits in favour of taxing and employment directly and entirely by government.
I think its closer to this but presently private business is licensed via government to those chosen to succeed such as large banks who in turn deal government debt, that is a fascist economy


The FED - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qou7yxbo4OA&feature=g-u-u
 
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Drifterwood

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I think that the author of the linked piece is missing the point. The term we should be discussing is societal engineering by politicians, not socialism.

Reality is a partly globalised economy. That part of the economy which is not globalised can be left to ebb and flow according to prevailing market conditions and the quality of the businesses. The problem of monopoly government is another issue and important given its growing size.

However the game is different for businesses that compete on a global basis. You can take the short view that there is more money for corporations to make by outsourcing production to the cheapest place, however this just leads to the loss of capability in the home market and a seemingly never ending game of cat and mouse to find the new cheap place as the old cheap place develops and gets more expensive.

Where government has failed in this game is to get tax revenue from these corporations. The alternative is to subsidise business to bring or keep the jobs at home, the play off being between the savings of jobs versus welfare costs and ensuing social harmony. This, I would suggest is the evolution of capitalist darwinianism. I see it more as pragmatism rather than any type of political ideology.
 
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sbat

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The US is a hybrid, like most modern countries. Our police department, fire department, military, emergency rooms, medicare, medicaid, welfare, social security, etc. are socialist programs. Our graduated tax system is socialist in nature. We don't live in a purely capitalistic society, but honestly, I don't think most people realize how horrible that would be. Just ask this guy. Home uninsured. Firemen let it burn. Crazy capitalism? - CSMonitor.com

This article does not support your argument. It was a local government fireforce that let the house burn...
 

JTalbain

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This article does not support your argument. It was a local government fireforce that let the house burn...
And the reason why was because they allowed citizens to choose whether or not to directly invest in emergency services. Normally, it doesn't matter what taxes you pay, what decisions you make in life, etc. If your house is burning, the fire department will put it out. In that small town, they decided to make it a more privatized set up, where people would pay into a fire protection insurance fund in order to get protection for their home. When this guy didn't pay up, they let his house burn. Private vs. public at work.
 

Perados

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@ dandelion
The word socialistic is a bit misunderstandable... The pure socialism is really mutch like comunism. By this i like your try of socialistic/capitalistic system...
In german its quite easy. We name our economy "Soziale Marktwirtschaft" (importent with a big S)
It defines what you tryd to describe...
The state cares for the people and the labor force has influence on the companies... This inside a free market system.

But it looks quite like an american issue to call everything, were the state supports people, socialistic... As mutch as i can say, a lots of americans call europe socialistic. But it isnt, its social...
In the marketsystem between the usa and europe is nearly no difference...
I think it would be mutch easier to run social programs, if they wouldnt instantly talk about socialism... America has to learn, that a state can be social, inside a capitalistic system.

So if the next time the republikans try to doom a socialistic era, dont akzept it. Never akzept the word socialistic in a diskussion, always use social...
 
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