Failing at Being Gay

[tater_tot_man]

No, you're not failing at being gay because you're not femmy enough or because of whatever other bullshit you stated - you're failing because you're a major 'judgmental fuck' as you put it. You look down at other people because they're not as 'intellectual' as you. Sweetie, I've the Quran, Theravada, and the Tao Te Ching lined up snugly next to one another in my book case; can you say that for yourself?

Its not about putting yourself out there like some common whore either or about your looks or your wardrobe; it's about being honest with yourself and realizing that your shit stinks just as bad as everyone else's which is a realization you seem to sorely lack. The truth is you're a shallow judgmental prick, but that's ok because so are most of the worlds 20-something year olds.

Dislodge that giant ego-inflated head of yours from your ass, realize you're not the Queen Bee on the block, and find someone that treats you nice. You'll be ok, hell you may even find yourself true love id that shit exists.

Also, stop calling yourself an intellectual it just makes you sound like a major douche, and unless your name is Confucius or Hemingway you should never refer to yourself as that.

 

[B_Hung Jon]

This is the human condition.

Everyone has the same problem finding that special someone. You will find them most likely if you stop looking. It's freaking zen or something. Kind of like when you lose your keys and everywhere you look they're not there. You drive yourself crazy looking every single place you can think of, but they're not there. Finally when you just about give up, you find them in plain sight after hours of searching. It's like they found you. Don't settle for just anyone, be vigilant for signs of the right person, and don't force it no matter what and you'll find happiness.

Guarantee it.

Poultrygeist has said it all in one paragraph: the best advice for anyone who wants a relationship. Just do the things you love to do and you'll find people who will be interested in you and vice versa.

 

[Rikter8]

(PS Was I really the ONLY poster here who wasn't completely put off by the OP's nasty attitude?)

Nope, reminded me of what you commonly see in the gay lifestyle.

 

[Safelite]

So pretty much your a typical guy.

I had been under the impression it was much easier for gay guys to get laid

Straight people think it's easier for gays to get laid. Gay people think it's easier for straight people to get laid. Unless you're a slutbag or have very low standards, it's hard to find quality people regardless of your sexuality - period. Hang in there.

 

[D_Percy_Prettywillie]

No, you're not failing at being gay because you're not femmy enough or because of whatever other bullshit you stated - you're failing because you're a major 'judgmental fuck' as you put it. You look down at other people because they're not as 'intellectual' as you. Sweetie, I've the Quran, Theravada, and the Tao Te Ching lined up snugly next to one another in my book case; can you say that for yourself?

Its not about putting yourself out there like some common whore either or about your looks or your wardrobe; it's about being honest with yourself and realizing that your shit stinks just as bad as everyone else's which is a realization you seem to sorely lack. The truth is you're a shallow judgmental prick, but that's ok because so are most of the worlds 20-something year olds.

Dislodge that giant ego-inflated head of yours from your ass, realize you're not the Queen Bee on the block, and find someone that treats you nice. You'll be ok, hell you may even find yourself true love id that shit exists.

Also, stop calling yourself an intellectual it just makes you sound like a major douche, and unless your name is Confucius or Hemingway you should never refer to yourself as that.

I think the OP and I share a few traits (though I would never refer to myself as an intellectual) to which the above directly applies. Whether I want to admit it or not, my use of language and the underlying thought that in life the ability to use it at level elevates me, is tantamount to exactly what you're talking about.

It is a hard thing to look in the mirror and say "You know what? You're... kind of an ass. You're not as open minded as you think and in spite of the 60K you spent going to college? You have a lot to learn." And as hard as that is it's even harder to do something about. But, like alcoholics, it's... one day at a time.

I wanted to quote the above because I think it's all true but very difficult to accept. Coming from someone guilty of most of the above take that post seriously as it articulates the truth of the matter as eloquently as I've read in my brief time as this forum.





JSZ

 

[FuzzyKen]

[Welcome to another episode of "Someguy Being a Miserable Bastard"]

So I kind of fail at being gay. Not in the "Failing to find men attractive" but at the "Failing to get laid/have a relationship" thing.

I've tried expanding my social circle to find partners (and I have succeeded in getting friends) but the gay guys I know I either wouldn't touch with somebody else's barge pole or are closeted and a bad idea.

I've tried online dating, but all I seem to get is men old enough to be my dad, or guys I really have nothing in common with.

Finally I've tried the local gay bars. Unfortunately I'm totally non-scene. I just don't understand the gay scene at all. I don't identify with it or hold any of the same values, and I come across as totally straight.

It's really getting me down now - one of my greatest fears is dieing old and alone. The worst thing is that I've had several really cool girls fall for me in the last couple of years, but I have really specific tastes in women and I prefer guys.

Argh. Depression time

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

PART I


I am a old gay dude who really had his fun when he was younger. Pal, the first thing is that you need to have some understanding in that a great deal of the gay community is based on illusion.

I lived for quite a few years in Palm Springs, which is now some sort of Gay Mecca. Everybody wants to move there. Before that I lived in the Temecula Valley and before that I lived in Pasadena with West Hollywood only 30 minutes away.

The best comparison I can give is going back to my childhood and teens when I would go shopping for Christmas Trees. The more you look at the damned things the harder it is to find what you want. This one is too tall for the space you have, this one is too wide, this one over there has some bare spots, and this one is already too dry. So you look and look and finally you just do the best you can and hope it will fit.

Every guy out there is doing exactly the same thing that you are. Gay bars specialize to a great degree. This one over here caters to an older crowd, this other one caters to twinkie boys who look like puberty is something they are still waiting for, this third one caters to the leather crowd, and you may even find one that caters to the Rodeo/Country crowd.

The first thing you need to do is to figure out where you fit in.

It seems by your own admission that you know nothing about a community in which you are trying to function.

When I was in my 20's I did not fit in bars that catered to this age group because I was too hairy. When I tried to become more involved in Bears Groups they did not love me either because the "judges" felt that unless my waist measurement matched my height that I did not qualify there.

Because I have always been a confirmed top the places I functioned best were the leather bars and on occasion the Country Western Bars.

I have been in a very successful relationship now for well over a decade. As people pair up they disappear from the scene. This is a normal part of the progression. After I paired up we would go out and do some charity fund raisers if we believed in the cause, but beyond that we could have cared less.

When I was in my 20's my thing was bodybuilders and at that time I had the looks to get what I wanted. The fact is that none of those relationships all of which were good were what I really wanted.

In spite of all the exposure to it, I was never really into the "scene" either because to me it was limiting. Yet, you are going to have to work within that scene until you learn enough to be successful.

Before the electric light bulb was invented Thomas Edison failed miserably more times than you could count. He started over and did a redesign and went at it again and again. You will have to do the same my friend.

Your failure to me appears not to be in anything more than throwing in the towel way too quickly.

Until you learn about all the different parts of the community and where you as an individual best fit in to it, you will repeat the same errors over and over again.

Go out there and try all kinds of different Bars expecting to do nothing other than "people watch". Learn from what is going on around you including what you see and what you hear.

Also remember that you may leave a given bar at 2 AM not having gotten lucky. The one thing that you have to know is that between 11PM and 2AM there were a ton of other guys who did exactly the same thing.

 

[scottbud]

[Welcome to another episode of "Someguy Being a Miserable Bastard"]

So I kind of fail at being gay. Not in the "Failing to find men attractive" but at the "Failing to get laid/have a relationship" thing.

I've tried expanding my social circle to find partners (and I have succeeded in getting friends) but the gay guys I know I either wouldn't touch with somebody else's barge pole or are closeted and a bad idea.

I've tried online dating, but all I seem to get is men old enough to be my dad, or guys I really have nothing in common with.

Finally I've tried the local gay bars. Unfortunately I'm totally non-scene. I just don't understand the gay scene at all. I don't identify with it or hold any of the same values, and I come across as totally straight.

It's really getting me down now - one of my greatest fears is dieing old and alone. The worst thing is that I've had several really cool girls fall for me in the last couple of years, but I have really specific tastes in women and I prefer guys.

Argh. Depression time

You sound PERFECT! marry me

 

[scottbud]

I used to be down about my looks but I know a few people who think i'm hot, so I'm ok with them now.

I think it's a social compatibility thing. I think my standards are in some respects too high - I always seem to see people's flaws. Maybe I'm just a judgmental fuck, but I'll notice things like for example, somebody having a really bad posture, and once I notice that (i.e. after a second of observing the person) I can't unsee that flaw and it becomes hard to find them attractive.

I have pretty high intelligence requirements. I'm fairly intelligent, and I feel bad about having sex with somebody who I think is a lot less intelligent than I am, because I feel that I'm dominating them. But I also have difficulty being interested in people who can't challenge me mentally.

Also, I'm a weird guy, I know that. I find certain things interesting (like history, politics, philosophy, science, computers) that most people just don't. So I rarely find people with the same interests as me.

again, marry me

 

[FuzzyKen]

[Welcome to another episode of "Someguy Being a Miserable Bastard"]

So I kind of fail at being gay. Not in the "Failing to find men attractive" but at the "Failing to get laid/have a relationship" thing.

I've tried expanding my social circle to find partners (and I have succeeded in getting friends) but the gay guys I know I either wouldn't touch with somebody else's barge pole or are closeted and a bad idea.

I've tried online dating, but all I seem to get is men old enough to be my dad, or guys I really have nothing in common with.

Finally I've tried the local gay bars. Unfortunately I'm totally non-scene. I just don't understand the gay scene at all. I don't identify with it or hold any of the same values, and I come across as totally straight.

It's really getting me down now - one of my greatest fears is dieing old and alone. The worst thing is that I've had several really cool girls fall for me in the last couple of years, but I have really specific tastes in women and I prefer guys.

Argh. Depression time

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



PART II

The next part, take a good honest look at how you are responding to other people. This may be difficult but be totally honest. Is there some manner in which you are displaying attitude towards others even if you don't realize it?

You are going to be approached by people who you will not find sexually or personally attractive, how do you respond to those people? Remember that when you are "new meat" others will be watching what you do to see if you are in fact "approachable" under the worst of circumstances.

We all have these experiences, here is one of mine:

About seventeen years ago I was in a Palm Springs Leather Bar and it was about 1AM. A white minivan pulled in to the parking lot and inside that minivan were a number of men, the youngest man was probably about 75-years-old, and a few looked like they had one foot in the grave. This group of older gay men were even wearing leisure suits! To a leather bar. . . . .

They walked in the door and for many of the die hards still remaining the look of shock and horror was on many faces. Nobody knew what to do, so they simply treated these men as if they did not exist.

You worry about a death with nobody to love you? What happened to these men was in my eyes far worse. Finally an old gent walked up and grabbed the bar stool next to me and tried to get "lucky". I could not do what had been done by others and the behavior I saw was disgraceful. I talked to this man and made some small talk with him. When he made is pitch I simply stated that while he was an extremely nice person, and I would love his friendship, I was not sexually attracted to him. I even bought him a drink.
He and his friends left about 15 minutes later. The bartender came up to me and mentioned that he had no idea what to do. I told him what I had done and he smiled. His final words before heading to start "clean up" were that we were all going to reach that age some day, and he wondered how he would be treated under the same circumstance.

I am probably one of the older people on this board.

You need to experience life in the community my friend and for a time you need to force yourself to do so. Your only failure will be the one you engineer because you did not learn first and make the effort second.


Good Luck! I know you can have success!

 

[scottbud]

yay! people like me, I am a virgin, never been kissed and can't find a guy!

I'll kiss ya, and anything else you want

 

[christophe12]

[Welcome to another episode of "Someguy Being a Miserable Bastard"]

So I kind of fail at being gay. Not in the "Failing to find men attractive" but at the "Failing to get laid/have a relationship" thing.

I've tried expanding my social circle to find partners (and I have succeeded in getting friends) but the gay guys I know I either wouldn't touch with somebody else's barge pole or are closeted and a bad idea.

I've tried online dating, but all I seem to get is men old enough to be my dad, or guys I really have nothing in common with.

Finally I've tried the local gay bars. Unfortunately I'm totally non-scene. I just don't understand the gay scene at all. I don't identify with it or hold any of the same values, and I come across as totally straight.

It's really getting me down now - one of my greatest fears is dieing old and alone. The worst thing is that I've had several really cool girls fall for me in the last couple of years, but I have really specific tastes in women and I prefer guys.

Argh. Depression time

Gay life is shit ! believe me mon chéri !

 

[silvertriumph2]

FuzzyKen has given some GREAT information and advice, and
it should be reread and filed away for reference.

:grinning-smiley-003: FuzzyKen...kudos...

 

[Pecker Check]

Correction: a shitty gay life is shit.

 

[B_Marius567]

there are men looking for men on craigslist

 

[brooklynjackp]

Reading this thread, it's striking to see how many men exclaim "You're just like me! We should meet!!" And rather sad to see a recurring theme of not-too-subtle gay-bashing of most gay men as variously stupid, shallow and/or promiscuous.
If one seriously considers one's own youth, intelligence and high standards as rendering most others undesirable - get ready for a lonely and increasingly bitter life.
As other posters have noted, desperation is not attractive. Nor is (gotta say it) being stuck-up, snobbish, arrogant - even if that's not how we see ourselves.
I am responsible for my efforts to connect - I give it my best shot and let go of the results. I'm an older single man in New York City, and I have to say -it's a helluva good life.

I used to be down about my looks but I know a few people who think i'm hot, so I'm ok with them now.

I think it's a social compatibility thing. I think my standards are in some respects too high - I always seem to see people's flaws. Maybe I'm just a judgmental fuck, but I'll notice things like for example, somebody having a really bad posture, and once I notice that (i.e. after a second of observing the person) I can't unsee that flaw and it becomes hard to find them attractive.

I have pretty high intelligence requirements. I'm fairly intelligent, and I feel bad about having sex with somebody who I think is a lot less intelligent than I am, because I feel that I'm dominating them. But I also have difficulty being interested in people who can't challenge me mentally.

Also, I'm a weird guy, I know that. I find certain things interesting (like history, politics, philosophy, science, computers) that most people just don't. So I rarely find people with the same interests as me.

 

[D_John Quicky Adams]

[Welcome to another episode of "Someguy Being a Miserable Bastard"]

So I kind of fail at being gay. Not in the "Failing to find men attractive" but at the "Failing to get laid/have a relationship" thing.

I've tried expanding my social circle to find partners (and I have succeeded in getting friends) but the gay guys I know I either wouldn't touch with somebody else's barge pole or are closeted and a bad idea.

I've tried online dating, but all I seem to get is men old enough to be my dad, or guys I really have nothing in common with.

Finally I've tried the local gay bars. Unfortunately I'm totally non-scene. I just don't understand the gay scene at all. I don't identify with it or hold any of the same values, and I come across as totally straight.

It's really getting me down now - one of my greatest fears is dieing old and alone. The worst thing is that I've had several really cool girls fall for me in the last couple of years, but I have really specific tastes in women and I prefer guys.

Argh. Depression time

Dude I've been goin through the same shit man. I glad I'm not the only one that feels this way

 

[hoopy70]

you sound pretty good to me. i'm in glasgow. *wink*

 

[SomeGuyOverThere]

[...]

[/FONT]

Thanks for your extremely wise and illuminating words Ken. I'm going to mull them over.


------------------------



What I find fascinating about this thread is how easily some people are offended by somebody else stating their personal preferences.

Take the below, as an example:

No, you're not failing at being gay because you're not femmy enough or because of whatever other bullshit you stated - you're failing because you're a major 'judgmental fuck' as you put it. You look down at other people because they're not as 'intellectual' as you. Sweetie, I've the Quran, Theravada, and the Tao Te Ching lined up snugly next to one another in my book case; can you say that for yourself?

Its not about putting yourself out there like some common whore either or about your looks or your wardrobe; it's about being honest with yourself and realizing that your shit stinks just as bad as everyone else's which is a realization you seem to sorely lack. The truth is you're a shallow judgmental prick, but that's ok because so are most of the worlds 20-something year olds.

Dislodge that giant ego-inflated head of yours from your ass, realize you're not the Queen Bee on the block, and find someone that treats you nice. You'll be ok, hell you may even find yourself true love id that shit exists.

Also, stop calling yourself an intellectual it just makes you sound like a major douche, and unless your name is Confucius or Hemingway you should never refer to yourself as that.

Wow what did I ever do to you?

1: I actually said "I'm fairly intelligent", I at no point referred to myself as "an intellectual", you made that bit up. The fact that I used a modest word like "fairly" should clue you in on the fact that I recognise that I'm intelligent, but I don't rate it amazingly highly. If I could take some sort of reverse Flowers for Algernon, I would.

2: If we're going to play the "my bookshelf is my penis" game, I have to my left The Wealth of Nations, Infinite Jest, Issues in Evolutionary Ethics, Philosophy and the Mirror of Nature, and a massive stack of papers on evolutionary ethics and various other subjects including Einstein Podgorski and Rosen on Quantum Mechanics (A paper later overturned by Bell, who proved them wrong, if you're wondering). All heavily annotated. On my right I have another stack of books including On the Rights of War and Peace, Kant: Political Writings, and Hume: Essays. Less heavily annotated because I'm too busy to read them at the moment. Can you say that for yourself? Of course, that means nothing, because having "read" does not equate with having "understood", and even that does not equate with "intelligence" or being an "intellectual".

3: I stated my reasons for having intelligence requirements: I cannot relate to people who I regard as being less intelligent. That doesn't mean I look down on them (see Flowers for Algernon reference above) you made that bit up. What it means is, that I know that at some point I'll be talking to somebody with average intelligence and I will say something which they do not understand and I cannot make them understand because I see the world differently from them. And that will confuse them, and make me sad. I don't know this (well, I know nothing except that I know nothing, but that's another debate) from deciding that "other people are less than me"; I know it from experience of talking to a lot of people over a long time, and finding that as soon as I start talking about something that I'm interested in (say... the foundations of Ethics or current trends in computer hardware) most people give me a look like I just dropped out of the sky from a flying saucer and took a shit on their Grandma at Christmas. The people who know what I'm talking about are the people who are usually my dearest friends. To me, saying "I'm more intelligent than a lot of people" is like saying "I'm taller than a lot of people", you have to actually rate intelligence as superior to believe that it means "I'm better than other people", and I think that says something about you and how you regard intelligence.

4: Thanks for making a whole load of assumptions about my Ego. But I suppose that's ok, because the human mind is very good at taking shortcuts to understanding, and pigeon holing people, which is exactly what you've done to me, whilst bemoaning the fact that I do it to other people.

 

[poultrygeist]

It's good to see a lot of guys on here resolving differences and agreeing to disagree.

You know if we could just put aside these differences of ideology there'd be a hell of a lot more guys swapping blowjobs. :tongue:

 

[mike714]

[Welcome to another episode of "Someguy Being a Miserable Bastard"]

So I kind of fail at being gay. Not in the "Failing to find men attractive" but at the "Failing to get laid/have a relationship" thing.

I've tried expanding my social circle to find partners (and I have succeeded in getting friends) but the gay guys I know I either wouldn't touch with somebody else's barge pole or are closeted and a bad idea.

I've tried online dating, but all I seem to get is men old enough to be my dad, or guys I really have nothing in common with.

Finally I've tried the local gay bars. Unfortunately I'm totally non-scene. I just don't understand the gay scene at all. I don't identify with it or hold any of the same values, and I come across as totally straight.

It's really getting me down now - one of my greatest fears is dieing old and alone. The worst thing is that I've had several really cool girls fall for me in the last couple of years, but I have really specific tastes in women and I prefer guys.

Argh. Depression time

Hi! I don't normally comment but I read this and I just had to comment because you sound so much like me. I live in an area with a similar population that you do and I have experienced some of the same problems. Now I don't know all the specifics about your situation so I will have to infer in some places. If I do so incorrectly, please don't take offense.

Gay men can be quite cruel. Growing up, I had a "friend" who claimed he was trying to help me find somebody but he would set me up on blind dates with people he knew would either embarrass me or not like me at all and since I was kind of naive, I didn't catch on until the third date. For example, one was near deaf and yelled his way through dinner because he thought hearing aids were a "weakness", and another was the kind of guy who was extremely judgmental and rude and we did NOT get along on that date. He found this funny for some reason but it really took a toll on me. I didn't date for years because even the dates I found for myself turned out to be total disasters like one guy who took me back to his house and decided he wanted to shoot up before having sex.

Anyway, you're kind of expressing a feeling I've had since I was 16. It's like there's no room in the world for gay guys who may not be supermodels but still look pretty damn good and gay guys who just want some measure of normality in their lives. I frustrates the hell out of me because I'm not one of those gay guys who act like sex has no meaning. It has a meaning for me. But for most gay men, they want to have sex with as many men as possible in their 20's and 30's and by the time they are middle aged, they want to settle down with somebody in their 20's and 30's and if you are not interested in them, they treat you like crap. Almost as if they're shocked that you would dare reject them. It's so hypocritical. They act as if I don't deserve to have somebody within my age range that I can experience many of the same things with. Age DOES matter.

I have tried to clubs and you'll get some interest in the beginning because you're "fresh meat" but the interest stops after sex. And yes, one guy actually called me "fresh meat" to my face.

Although I can't give you much advice, the advice I can give you is this: Move to a larger city. Or at least a suburb. Being gay in an area with a population around 200,000 really isn't that good. I have responsibilities that don't allow me to move or otherwise I would have gone by now. But don't compromise what you're looking for. Be flexible, but don't outright compromise on it because it will make you unhappy in the end. Also, I agree with you when it comes to dating people who aren't as intelligent but some of the best people I know aren't that smart. What really matters in the end is how they treat you so by imposing an IQ limitation, you may be missing out on many good guys.