Failure of socialism

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_starinvestor, May 8, 2010.

  1. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Greece.

    Spain.

    Portugal.

    Italy.

    This is clear evidence that socialism cannot survive deep economic recessions.

    Step 1 [Greece]: Borrow loads of money to fund entitlements

    Step 2: Unproductive economy falters in recession

    Step 3: Must cut entitlements because you are out of money

    Step 4: Rioting and pandemonium 24/7.

    Mmmm. Sign me up for summa that socialism.

    Luckily capitalist Germany will bail their sorry asses out.
     
  2. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    America has a financial system that is a hybrid of Capitalism & Socialism... cleverly disguised under the name "Capitalism". Great for the ideologist who likes to pretend that we're doing something better than everyone else, but not for the realist who can see through the rhetoric.

    BTW, I'll let you know how "bad" it is in Portugal when I go there in two weeks. Something tells me that there won't be a single person rioting in the street. :rolleyes:
     
  3. Bbucko

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    France, Benelux and Scandinavia are all very Socialist, and Germany is much more socialized than the OP suggests.

    The world economy is taking a battering right now, although still-Communist China seems to be doing quite well.
     
  4. vince

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    All socialist countries. All of them handling this recession much better than "captailist" USA. For that matter, taking it even further, COMMUNIST Red China hasn't even gone into recession and holds how much of you all's debt?

    I thought you were suppose to be some kind of sharp economist? Your simplistic 1 + 1 reasoning equals zero this time.
     
  5. Bbucko

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    Great minds post alike :cool:
     
  6. slurper_la

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    and isn't it funny (sad) the world economy is suffering at the hands of immoral capitalists!
     
  7. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    I agree. In fact, 60% of gov't spending goes to entitlements. 22% to defense, 6% to interest on the national debt, and 12% to domestic spending. Indeed we are a hybrid.

    Yeah, lemme know.
     
  8. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Really? Then why is the Euro shitting the bed, while the dollar is rallying?


    yes, china went into a substantial economic slowdown. But they don't borrow to fund their entitlements like the U.S., France, Greece, Italy, etc etc.

    Socialism is failing.

    Capitalism is struggling, but not failing.

    1 + 1 = 2.
     
  9. midlifebear

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    Word on the street in my adopted hometown is that, yes, things are bad . . . but not as bad as they might have been. The service industry is still going full tilt in the places Germans and Brits like to "play" (doing things they'd NEVER do in their own country) and unlike Greece, Spain actually produces stuff. Without Spain there is no work in Toulouse (the one in France) to complete Airbus products. Spain's banks and financial services avoided the more severe problems of their counterparts in the USA and UK, due mainly to a stringently enforced conservative financial regulatory regime. Spaniards were starting to accrue a bunch of unsecured debt, but the tide has changed. I am not alone in remembering the large role Banco Santander had in helping the UK bail out of it's banking crises in 1993 when the Peseta was still a Peseta. And despite what you may have heard, Spaniards save and save a lot. This peculiar characteristic regarding personal thrift helped Spain through it's own pre Euro economic crises of 1979. But most of the kids posting here are a bit young to remember these historical facts.

    And although unemployment bobbles from 15 to 19%, that's a Hell of a lot better than the projected 24% we were hearing about in 2009 (which never happened). Plus, economies not part of the EU are still having no problem investing in this country. And Spanish building conglomerates are making a tidy income overseas in places like Brazil, Chile, and China bringing "real" money home. A few public services, primarily transportation, have been put on a delayed schedule. But the "evil socialist" pubic transportation system works possibly a little better than it did before the world economic crises.

    I'm not being a Pollyanna about Spain's problems. But so far the sun still shines, crime is mostly petty pick pocketing, and they're doing a good job of getting rid of the cockroaches in the Raval, in Barcelona.

    No one (except the Brits) are expecting (hoping?) for Spain to go the way of Greece.
     
    #9 midlifebear, May 8, 2010
    Last edited: May 8, 2010
  10. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    fortunately, the American electorate will not allow the country fall into the same trap

    Senator Bob Bennett, lost his bid for a fourth term, because he voted for TARP, demonstrating the wallop that the Tea Party movement is beginning to have in the drive to undo Obanomic policies


    the impact, most observers agree, will also be palpable in the Democratic elections, given the massive anti-incumbent mood:


    "Warnings for Democrats

    If the overall trends continue, the sour public mood could result in sizable House and Senate losses for Democrats in the midterm elections, particularly if the unemployment rate sticks near double digits. The atmosphere reflects continued economic anxiety -- about three-quarters of Americans are worried about the direction of the economy, despite signs that a recovery is underway -- as well as the lingering after-effects of a convulsive political debate over the health-care law. ..."

    Anti-Incumbent Mood Rising, Poll Finds - CBS News
     
  11. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

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    Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy are not particularly socialist, indeed all have long histories of being dominated by right wing or Fascist governments. The failures of socialism are not especially self evident in the sovereign debt crisis which is a syptom of the excesses of capitalism.

    Germany is most assuredly not a capitalist country despite superficial appearances and anyone familiar with it knows that very well, and as has already been pointed out China, Scandinavia, the Benelux, even Russia (!?) are weathering the current storm far better than the more open liberalised capitalist states are.
     
    #11 D_Tim McGnaw, May 8, 2010
    Last edited: May 8, 2010
  12. Golfbuddy

    Golfbuddy Member

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    China is in trouble. Wait until their debtors (us) can't pay our debt. Socialism is a matter of degree, and in the US we are headed further and further down that road. The problem is that too many Americans are lazy, think the world owes them a living, and want the goverment to hand them everything. Then there are the bleeding heart liberals who think that one of government's jobs is to take money from the earners and give it to the lazy.

    If anyone thinks that socialism works great in Europe, you should go live for a while. Yes, people in Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden are quite content. But, they are a very homogenous society, they have a strong tradition of hard work, and they pay staggering amounts in taxes. And the govenment takes care of them crade to grave. But the system is being stretched. You might say, why can't we have things like that here? Well, we could, but we spend a large part of our GDP on military, which none of the European countries do. But we do already spend far more than we should on entitlements. European governments are concerned and they are attempting to cut back on services, vacations, etc. France is starting to feel the problem. And who wants to live like they do? Have you ever been to Munich, Vienna, Berlin, Prague, or Amsterdam? The large majority of people live in old, crummy apartment buildings. I like my quarter acre with a 4000 sq ft home. There's no way I could afford to live like that in Europe, but in the western US, it's easy.
    When we finally slide into a socialist system (and we will, it's inevitable I'm sorry to say), the good American dream, manifest destiny and all that stuff will be gone forever. When we do, we destroy the incentive of people to work hard and get ahead. The profit motive has been great for America, but Marxism will destroy it. Dang, I'm glad I'm old.
     
  13. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    May 03, 2010 European Socialism is Bleeding like Stuck PIGS

    Dexter Wright
    [FONT=times new roman,times]Over that past several months we have been watching the slow death of European Socialism due to the hemorrhage of red ink which massively inefficient social programs have caused. The countries that are bleeding the most red ink are Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain or the [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]P.I.G.S. of Europe[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times] as they are known in financial circles.[/FONT]

    [FONT=times new roman,times]At the close of April the worst of the PIGS, Greece, was bailed out financially by the European Union (EU) and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) by borrowing money mostly from Germany. The agreement that permitted that transaction to occur forced the Greek government to agree to austerity programs reducing social services and pensions. This essentially means that the massive socialist programs instituted over the last forty years in Greece are being rolled back simply because these programs have run out of money.[/FONT]

    [FONT=times new roman,times]Margret Thatcher, the former Prime Minister of Great Britain, once said "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times][emphasis added][/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]

    [/FONT]
    American Thinker Blog: European Socialism is Bleeding like Stuck PIGS
     
  14. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    Capitialism consistantly fails. It goes through a nice cycle of "wow, this is amazing buy buy buy" to "Fuck! Lets not cut our own earning, the workers can pick up the bill".

    Socialism isnt failing. there are no true Socialist countries, Only capitalist countries that give a enough of a shit about their citizens to give them universal healthcare etc.

    Its funny. Ignorance makes it so easy to berate a system you know nothing about. You can quote various works of Marx, Engels, Harman, Lenin whatever at me, and say you have read them, but face it. You are just the product of McCartheyism, and the hysteria that surrounded it. You hear Socialist and immediatly think think its 1960 and get on the tin foil hat. Cant have the Red's spy planes seeing you eh?

    Seriously, this is the worst thought out attack on "Socialism" i have seen on this forum in a very long time.
     
  15. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

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    Oh you're welcome to your poor education system, rampant violent crime, infantile and morally bankrupt politics and healthcare which only rich people can afford, and a lifestyle which is gross, wasteful and selfish, oh and your grotesquely bloated military too.

    I'm happy to live in my brand spanking new apartment on a modest but comfortable scale in a city with some culture and history in it, where I can be secure in the knowledge that if I loose my livelihood I wont suddenly find myself living under a motorway.



    Is it necessary to point out that you contradict yourself by claiming that socialism would disincentivise hard work in the US while claiming that people in the socialised parts of Europe work hard and pay huge taxes?
     
    #15 D_Tim McGnaw, May 8, 2010
    Last edited: May 8, 2010
  16. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    Socialism is never a failure in itself, it is always victim to capitalist monopoly.

    I loathe capitalism with a passion tbh but then i AM a socialist.
     
  17. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    Ah, the American Dream. Where anyone can move to America, Work 4 jobs, sleep 2 hours a night, and still be hated by "hard working, white Americans"

    Marxism is about a fair and equal society. Why do you need 3 cars, massive house and so on. If it shows your success, then i feel sorry for you. I rate success on the way a person acts, and the way they carry themsleves. A binman who has the respect of his counterparts, lives comfortably and thinks of others as much as himself, will always be more successful than a Banker who owns 5 cars, a 5 bedroom house, and would rather sack a few people than take a small cut in pay. Atleast in my eyes.

    But then again, this will just be waved off as the rantings of just a little kid, who doesnt know how the world works, so why bother?
     
  18. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

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    You certainly have my complete respect for these sentiments, they sound like the thoughts of a mature and sensible individual with a strong sense of compassion. Would that there were more of you.
     
  19. B_talltpaguy

    B_talltpaguy New Member

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    A perfect example of the sort of trolling thread intro that will soon be banned here.
     
  20. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    You might be considered a little kid lemon but you've got a mighty great brain!
     
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