That's exactly what I was thinking of. The US went through a lot of similar events. I guess an American advantage was the fact that the country started out as a nation of immigrants, period. European history is a lot more complicated.
Failure of socialism
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That's exactly what I was thinking of. The US went through a lot of similar events. I guess an American advantage was the fact that the country started out as a nation of immigrants, period. European history is a lot more complicated.
Thank you.
As some have suggested above, I am not advocating the elimination of all entitlement programs.
I am stipulating that the entitlement program has to be an affordably-constructed sidecar to economic productivity.
Not the other way around. The sentiment around here is that the wagon can pull the horse.
Greece, meet wagon. Wagon, Greece.
TurkeyWithaSunburn
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starinvestor said:
Except for when there is real socialism, i.e. government owning parts of a company.
Volkswagen appears to have been a fully state owned company until 1960 when the government sold part of the company on the stock exchange. As of Dec 31,2009, the State of Lower Saxony owned about 15% of Volkswagen. The Qatar Investment Authority owned 12%. Socialism builds cars. Oh the HORROR.
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No, you said that the economic troubles of said countries indicated a "failure of socialism."
That's right.
Failure of socialism = entitlements breaking the back of government receipts.
Socialism is a lot more than entitlement programs.
Here you go Star, read this if you can stand a dash of socialism from the failed entity north of the 49th parallel... It'll make your hair curl.
Canadian Crown Corporations
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B_VinylBoy
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Exactly! Funny how it's "entitlements" when it's helping someone else, but when it comes to their own guns, land, money or the like it becomes "government's duty to protect their rights".
- sbat,
Buddy, this isn't limited to entitlement programs. This could be as basic as consumption of food. If a majority of resources - in any manner - are consumed by non-productive people, or if individuals in general make a habit of consuming more than they produce, there will be sustainability issues. I'm criticizing European welfarism as much as I am criticizing American consumerism.
after reading posts here quote ' individuals in general make a habit of consuming more than they produce' 'basic as consumption of food' 'entitlements breaking the back of government receipts' who will make the decisions who is worth and who is not is this what corporate america is about? governments are here to serve the public not vice versa. the european goal is to promote the well being and health of all citizens. this is not radical socialism it is basic human rights
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Star-
You really gotta learn to read your own damn thread. It has been asserted and proven with various links that your beef isn't with Socialism, it's with the Welfare State and Social Democracy.
And do you still believe that "all" the baby boomers are in their 60s when 2/3 of them were born on or after 1951?
BigDallasDick8x6
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Haven't read all 271 posts of course so this point may have already been made >>
Denmark is what most Americans would think of as "socialist." High taxes, high entitlements. Yet it's definitely not a failed state. As I recall, it consistently ranks at or near the top of nations with regards to the happiness of its population.
Denmark is what most Americans would think of as "socialist." High taxes, high entitlements. Yet it's definitely not a failed state. As I recall, it consistently ranks at or near the top of nations with regards to the happiness of its population.
- sbat,
The rights of which humans? They certainly don't promote the well being of immigrants. Their economic policies with regards to farm subsidies give unfair advantage to their own farmers over competitors in third world nations which have no cushy welfarish institutions. Turning a blind eye to rampant racism in the sporting arena - or giving punishments that amount to slaps on the wrist does nothing to promote basic human rights.
Human rights are a myth. The day that rich-nation governments stop playing economic hardball and proxy-battlegrounds with third world nations chock full of people living below their own definitions of the poverty level in starvation conditions, and stop giving string-attached loans that amount to blankets with smallpox to nations too cash-strapped and desperate to refuse, is the day that I'll believe in the bullshit concept of "human rights."
The only people who talk about human rights like they believe in it are folks who live in wealthy nations, with easy access to modern marvels like decent healthcare, education, clean water, plenty of food, and transportation.
People at the bottom know that every new regime change is just another group of people trying to fuck them out of the few pennies they are allowed to earn to barely keep themselves alive.
Vince - this is directly from the link you provided:
In practice, however, most Crown corporations operate at arm's length from the government, with direct government control only being exerted over the corporation's budget and the appointment of its chairperson and directors through Orders-in-Council.
The appointment of directors and the budget? I wouldn't exactly call that pulling the strings of the business. If the gov't is going to be involved with a business - that [Crown Corporations] is the way to do it. Keep the govt's dirty, inefficient, ineffective and unqualified mitts out of the day to day operations; and the business actually has a chance to survive without steamrolling the rest of whichever industry they are involved in.
My beef is with the balance of fair competition and healthy market principles vs. entitlements. Any economy [sans those rich in natural resources] will sputter, choke and eventually evolve into poverty-stricken wasteland unless there is a healthy market environment which promotes growth, innovation and competition.
It is a balancing act. I think a healthy balance is 75% capitalism and 25% entitlements. The problem is that most governments are constructed in a sloppy, inefficient and conflict-oriented way; and they cannot figure out the balance between the two.
The free market economies are able to overcome the failures of gov't moreso than the more socialist-oriented economies.
Long story short, most governments suck infected donkey cock. They are fucking horrible, fucked-up, bloated machines of waste and inefficiency.
The principles of capitalism are just the opposite - they promote efficiency, fair pricing, competition, innovation, productivity and job creation.
I stand corrected. The first class of boomers is now collecting social security. They have an historic ton of additional boomers right behind them.
But they ain't 25 anymore.:wink:
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once again:
FAILURE of socialism = entitlements breaking......
not
Socialism = entitlements breaking......
In fact the worlds 'only superpower' doesn't even crack the top twenty. The World's Happiest Countries. Tisk.
If non-productive people are consuming goods or services [i.e food] that is, indeed, an entitlement.....Buddy:biggrin1:
*FACEPALM* Good lord sweetheart. My point was that entitlements doesnt=socialism, therefore failure of socialism does NOT equal entitlements breaking.
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Doesn't matter how many times you say it... that won't make it a fact. Here, I'll even repeat it for you:
Nope... still not making a difference.
Perhaps one more time, with emphasis:
Uh-uh... still not working.
Got something else for us, star?