Failure of socialism

[Bbucko]

A perfect example of the sort of trolling thread intro that will soon be banned here.

The usual suspects are out in full force tonight.

 

[slurper_la]

...Is it necessary to point out that you contradict yourself by claiming that socialism would disincentivise hard work in the US while claiming that people in the socialised parts of Europe work hard and pay huge taxes?

Yes it's necessary but the irony will still not affect the thinking. Rabid anti-everything" has taken its hold...

 

[B_Nick4444]

"...anger is increasing in Germany, with many asking why they should pay for things like the luxury Greek pension system. ..."

Multi-billion Euro aid to Greece - German anger at paying for luxury Greek pensions - News - Bild.de

 

[Cthulhu]

Being born 27 years ago in Greece, let me tell you the truth about our crappy little country.

It is true our current government wants to call itself socialist. It is also true that the government we had for the previous 8 years was supposed to be on the right wing. Ever since we got rid of a 7 year military junta back in the late 70s, those are the only two parties that are elected government.

The truth is that both these parties have been governing in the exact same way:

- increasing the already huge number of civil servants (for a country of 10 million people we have more than 1 million civil servants). Also, according to our constitution, civil servants can't be fired, no matter how crappy a job they do.

- Giving to said civil servants multiple benefits above their standard paycheck, sometimes doubling it, none of which are connected to productivity (about which nobody seems to care). Those benefits, up until recently, were also taxed way less than the standard paycheck.

-Spending as a country way more than we should spend (I don't even want to think about how much the fucking 2004 Olympics cost us and at how great a financial loss)

- Lying through their teeth to the European Union about our financial situation as a country.

All in all, our failure is not a failure of socialism. Our failure is that we are fucking Greeks that produce fucking nothing and we have maybe the worst politicians in the world, whether they declare themselves socialists, on the right wing, communists or whatever.

If ancient Greeks knew what their grand-grand-grandchildren would become, they would have committed mass suicide 2500 years ago.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

"...anger is increasing in Germany, with many asking why they should pay for things like the luxury Greek pension system. ..."

Multi-billion Euro aid to Greece - German anger at paying for luxury Greek pensions - News - Bild.de

Yeah that's not really news, and there's no question that the Greeks should never have been allowed to join the Euro-zone in the first place, it was a clear case of politics trumping economics.


But actually your tone is so gloating and triumphant it's almost as though you're delighted at the thought that half of the only continent which is currently capable of being a credible ally, economically and politically to the USA, and indeed has been for 60 years, is going through serious hard times.

Nice, you got some class there.

 

[deleted15807]

yes, china went into a substantial economic slowdown. But they don't borrow to fund their entitlements like the U.S., France, Greece, Italy, etc etc.

Because American businesses have outsourced everything they can from the US to China and India while simultanouesly trying to abolish any kind of safety net for the ones they left behind.

My old company Verizon has told my former co-workers 80/20. They want 80% of all software development to come from Verizon India. And 20% US. How long can dollars get shipped to India and China for goods and services before we're poor and they're rich? What do we have the world wants besides guns? So it's no wonder they don't have to borrow. Additionally they have no massive war machine to fight wars in far flung areas of the world to kill all their enemies.

 

[TurkeyWithaSunburn]

There's already a thread about the Greek situation.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

But actually your tone is so gloating and triumphant it's almost as though you're delighted at the thought that half of the only continent which is currently capable of being a credible ally, economically and politically to the USA, and indeed has been for 60 years, is going through serious hard times.

Nice, you got some class there.

Kinda sad that Nick6666 gets his jollies off the prospect of failure of anything that doesn't align with his... *ahem*... ideologies. Truly a miserable person.

 

[deleted15807]

+5 on that one.

 

[vince]

Really? Then why is the Euro shitting the bed, while the dollar is rallying?

And last year it was the other way around. Next year it will flip again. The Euro kicked the dollar's ass for 10 str8 years. During which time the capitalists of America did not "capitalize" on it's low value and start manufacturing products anyone would interested in buying. Seemingly, all they were interested in is selling each other junk mortgage futures. And when that didn't work out, the chief "capitalists", Wall St banks, came cap in hand to the public for a socialist bailout, hurriedly granted by your so-called "free marketer" Republican administration.

Currencies have been going up a down for as long as I remember. Longer. So your point is?

yes, china went into a substantial economic slowdown. But they don't borrow to fund their entitlements like the U.S., France, Greece, Italy, etc etc.

It's the power of the collective man.

Socialism is failing.

Capitalism is struggling, but not failing.

1 + 1 = 2.

Yes capitalism is a struggle. Lately, for us, it's a 72 hour a week struggle. But the team will get the job done next month and we can relax back to 45/week. Maybe even take a holiday! They work hard and make me lots of profits and I don't mind contributing to their social benefits at all. Could I pocket more profit if I paid less tax? Probably. Do I need more Euros in my pocket? Not really. I have enough and more of them keep coming and I like a happy worker who isn't worrying about paying for his mother's knee surgery and instead keeps his mind on the job and shows up on time everyday.

You need to get over the right/left, blue/red, us/them, way of thinking and free your mind. It's requires hard work, but's it can be very profitable.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

Kinda sad that Nick6666 gets his jollies off the prospect of failure of anything that doesn't align with his... *ahem*... ideologies. Truly a miserable person.

Which is a puzzling outlook on things, given his own incongruities in his personal life... I guess he never stopped to think that the number of men named 'Nick' or 'Nicholas' who work in the financial services industry in SA, and who are 33-34yrs old is exactly 2.

Whoops. lololol

 

[ColonialBoy]

Luckily capitalist Germany will bail their sorry asses out.

Lol all european countries are "socialist".

The US is "agrarian socialist" with massive subsidies to farmers. And of course corporate welfare like bank bailouts, AIG, GM etc.


Australia has virtually no farm subsidies and little federal debt. We didnt need to bail out failed banks, and we've have socialized medicine for 40 years because we can afford it.

 

[Sergeant_Torpedo]

I'd rather live in any of the countries cited during a depression than the USA. Europeans are a bit more civilized than the beautiful Americans, who will sell their daughters into whoredom for a few bucks. Exploit weaker peoples around the world and employ Mexicans to do the real work.

 

[houtx48]

"A perfect example of the sort of trolling thread intro that will soon be banned here.".......... Stop feeding the trolls as discussed?

 

[B_starinvestor]

And last year it was the other way around. Next year it will flip again. The Euro kicked the dollar's ass for 10 str8 years. During which time the capitalists of America did not "capitalize" on it's low value and start manufacturing products anyone would interested in buying. Seemingly, all they were interested in is selling each other junk mortgage futures. And when that didn't work out, the chief "capitalists", Wall St banks, came cap in hand to the public for a socialist bailout, hurriedly granted by your so-called "free marketer" Republican administration.

Given that our entitlements are 60% of gov't spending, it is fair to say that we are leaning socialist in the U.S. Within two years we will be forced to recalibrate social security and medicare because they are moving up in cost every year and we have absolutely no way to finance the expense.

At that point, chaos will ensue. The point is that funding these entitlement programs is impossible. The actuaries that created social security had no idea of demographic overload in 2010 and beyond - the system is imploding.

Its a nice feature but it doesn't add up anymore. The disenfranchised liberals can pound their feet and scream all day, but the system needs to be overhauled and re-created to make fiscal sense.

We have GOT to quit borrowing to fund these programs, it is a ticking time bomb.

Currencies have been going up a down for as long as I remember. Longer. So your point is?

My point is that people around the globe still flock to the dollar in times of uncertainty.

It's the power of the collective man.

It is the power of borrowing by the collective man. It is not power, it is leverage.

Yes capitalism is a struggle. Lately, for us, it's a 72 hour a week struggle. But the team will get the job done next month and we can relax back to 45/week. Maybe even take a holiday! They work hard and make me lots of profits and I don't mind contributing to their social benefits at all. Could I pocket more profit if I paid less tax? Probably. Do I need more Euros in my pocket? Not really. I have enough and more of them keep coming and I like a happy worker who isn't worrying about paying for his mother's knee surgery and instead keeps his mind on the job and shows up on time everyday.

Fine and dandy. But when the well is dry, those idealisms are not reality.

You need to get over the right/left, blue/red, us/them, way of thinking and free your mind. It's requires hard work, but's it can be very profitable.

Thanks. My mind is free. Socialism just doesn't work. It's a bandaid in the long run.

 

[B_starinvestor]

A perfect example of the sort of trolling thread intro that will soon be banned here.

Talltpaguy - poster child of the beleagured, angry liberal whose friends have surpassed him in success and life.

Get some therapy and hopefully you can enjoy some semblance of your time here on Earth.

Undoubtedly one of the most closed-minded, unstable members of the entire forum.

I wish you well and hope you can get it together.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Here we go...

 

[D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III]

Ah, the American Dream. Where anyone can move to America, Work 4 jobs, sleep 2 hours a night, and still be hated by "hard working, white Americans"



yet they still keep coming.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

A number of posters have suggested that China is communist.
Is this true?
I don't think so.
To be sure, there is still one-party rule.
And the government does control to a great extent a number of industries, though that control is being relinquished steadily.
There's actually a lot of free capitalist enterprise going on (with less regulation than in many countries), a rising wealthy class, and very few social programs.
Get sick in China and your family will take care of you in hospital.
So China is communist in name only.
Communist economics have been pretty irrelevant since Deng Xiaoping said, "Doesn't matter if the cat is black or white as long as it catches mice."
They are beyond ideology ... and communism was above all an ideology.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Given that our entitlements are 60% of gov't spending, it is fair to say that we are leaning socialist in the U.S. Within two years we will be forced to recalibrate social security and medicare because they are moving up in cost every year and we have absolutely no way to finance the expense.

The mere existence of a social welfare system does not make the US in any way socialist. Massive subsidy to your agricultural system might count as "leaning socialist" but providing a frankly rather meager safety net for the very poorest and most vulnerable does not make the USA especially socialist. Socialism is a formal political ideology, are you familiar with it?

At that point, chaos will ensue. The point is that funding these entitlement programs is impossible. The actuaries that created social security had no idea of demographic overload in 2010 and beyond - the system is imploding.

So you admit that in the absence of properly funded social security provision there would be chaos? Presumably you would also fully support mass immigration to the US to prevent this demographic shift from becoming unmanageable, thus averting this chaos you claim is inevitable?

Its a nice feature but it doesn't add up anymore. The disenfranchised liberals can pound their feet and scream all day, but the system needs to be overhauled and re-created to make fiscal sense.

We have GOT to quit borrowing to fund these programs, it is a ticking time bomb.

Perhaps you would have been better off not allowing your banking system to degenerate in to a criminally incompetent gambling and extortion ring, forcing the massive borrowing you're so terrified of, then you might still be able to afford the already inadequate social welfare provision you currently have.

My point is that people around the globe still flock to the dollar in times of uncertainty.

Currency markets buy any currency they deem to have value, the dollar has finally shown greater levels of value than the euro after a significant period of time, it's not a sign of anything in particular, just that the dollar is believed by some to be less unsafe an investment than the euro. Tomorrow it could be dollar which is being sold and another currency which is being bought, it's certainly not a massive vote of confidence in US economic policies, just an estimation of the likelihood of how much sooner the markets believe the euro will be a less good investment.

It is the power of borrowing by the collective man. It is not power, it is leverage.

This doesn't mean anything.

Fine and dandy. But when the well is dry, those idealisms are not reality. Thanks. My mind is free. Socialism just doesn't work. It's a bandaid in the long run.

This also means nothing, what are you basing this gross generalisation on? Proper formal Socialism has never been implemented anywhere, so how could you possibly know if its idealistic or not, or whether or not it works?