Fair play generally at LPSG

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by B_Stronzo, Jul 23, 2006.

  1. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    An on-board friend has asked if I could initiate a meaty new topic so here's my attempt.

    In the light of recent outright massacres of poster's (pichulon by example) opinions by the "popular kids" versus those less popular poster opinions (ie Shelby, Stronzo, and solong) can we truly expect equal applications of LPSG rules to all members of the board or are the personal preferences of moderators at hand going to largely color the application and dispensation of the rules in a biased fashion?

    This is a legitimate question and not an attempt at sarcasm. Having been on the receiving end very recently of the phenomenon I describe I will tell you that the very last thing I want to do is "ruin [the] board" as I've been accused. I truly like the place as dong20 and SenorRubirosa can attest by our lengthy communications (hope it's ok I mentioned you guys). I've stated it many times over and my posting history, though rocky, will substantiate my commitment to the place.

    This is a concerted effort by me (much as many of you will, of necessity, see it as egotism) to improve the general feel and mood around here.

    ********************************************************

    note to moderators:

    (Please let this thing stand guys. I'm trying to get opinion here. Many seem to think (as I have considerable pms to this effect) that there exists a gang mentality to pulverize unpopular points of view. I say there is and it flies in the face of what many here profess to call their innate right to freedom of speech).

    **proviso

    I'm not inviting a free-for-all on my personality so please don't go on the attack. It's the reverse of what I want the tone of this thread to be. Additionally I'd like this thread to address the equality of opinion that, I think, should prevail no matter how unpopular. Since we all somehow see this place as a microcosm of our (USA residents here) democracy let's see what can be ironed through in order that no one gets unneccessarily trodden upon no matter how unpopular their opinion.

    My contention is that bias (no matter what form it takes) needs to be kicked directly "to the curb".

    I'm not looking for perfection here. I only am looking for perspective. Can we kindly keep the "bar" (as they say) properly high? I know I can. And will work tirelessly to that end.

    Thanks,

    ever Stronzo
     
  2. Dr Rock

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    haha, that's cute
     
  3. mindseye

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    Fine, I'll bite:

    There's a logical fallacy, called "correlation implies causation". In this fallacy, one makes the assumption that because two things appear to be related, that one has an effect on the other one.

    A hypothetical example, for which the credit goes to Wikipedia: Fact: The days of the year on which the violent crime rate is the highest are also the days of the year on which ice cream sales are highest. Erroneous conclusion: Ice cream causes violent crime. The conclusion is erroneous in this case, because there is a third factor -- high temperatures -- that contributes both to high ice cream sales and also to a rise in violent crime.

    The fallacy being committed here is in the question, "Are the moderators biased against unpopular posters?" I claim that the answer is to the extent possible, no -- in fact, we've taken great pains to check ourselves in this regard. There are third factors, however, which can engender both unpopularity as well as moderators' attention. Therefore, there may be a correlation between unpopularity and moderator scrutiny (although measurement of either of these is subjective), without any other cause-effect relationship existing.

    Moderators aren't a different species from other members -- in fact, we were all 'plain ordinary' members at one time ourselves. So what offends us is likely to offend other folks as well; it should not be surprising that the members most time-consuming for us also have nemeses outside the moderatorship.
     
  4. rob_just_rob

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  5. Lex

    Lex
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    Some key points:
    • Issues are addressed as they are brought to the Moderator Team via the report post feature, PM, or chatroom transcripts. None of us have the time or energy to scour the board, looking for posters to engage all day long. We were all members first and are here to have fun like everyone else. There was a time when the board policed itself and many of us would like to get there again. Usually, most of our attention is on underage members (70%), trolls (20%) and board flow (10%).
    • The Moderators are in contact with various members from time to time about issues such as age, spam, posting habits. Members aren't privy to the conversations and actions between Mods and other members (unless the members choose to share that info). The sole exception is when a member is banned and, even, then, the actions and conversations leading to said ban are private.
    So, if a tree falls and no one hears it, did it fall? Of course it did.

    Most posters have quiety accepted a deleted avatar, spam note or warning. The vast majority quiety change their behavior and go on to enjoy the forum (or don't change and get banned).

    Still others, start self-indulgent, martyr-like threads so they don't have to consider changing. It's called shifting blame and focus. Last time I checked, this was not the Let's Please Stronzo Group, but maybe I misread the banner. Given the last 6 or so threads started, I have cause to wonder.
     
  6. Mr. Snakey

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    I have found you to be an interesting and kind person Your ok in my book:smile:
     
  7. B_big dirigible

    B_big dirigible New Member

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    OK, I'm stumped. What's a board flow?
     
  8. curiouscat9

    curiouscat9 New Member

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    Stronzo:

    I have never found any of your posts objectionable. I realize I haven't been logging on as frequently, (I've been dealing with alot of *?%@ lately) but the ones I have seen have seemed very reasonable. Are there a few members that throw me into a rant mode or post crap I refuse to read? Absolutely.

    Part of this for me is that during the transition of ownership, we lost some very special contributors to the board. I don't think this is attributed directly to the new owner, as I noticed that the posts were beginning to get a bit more raunchy even before the change.

    My particular concern is that many of the people I consider the intellectuals and deep thinkers of the board have either bailed, are now remaining silent, or are less vocal when they do post.

    The last few times I have logged on and contributed, I will admit I have been rather cranky and somewhat of a bitch. My only excuse is that so many of the posts are all about the "look at me" people or people cruising for sexual connections. I admittedly resent that the Women's Issues and Et Cetera sections no longer reflect "real" topics, but are all about sex and tripe that can be found on many poorly constructed sex blogs. Sex is a nice topic in itself, but I do not have much patience for people looking for affirmation of their character or unique characteristics.

    I too get my feelings hurt at times, but it is just a blog. Never being the percieved target of the moderators, I cannot speak to this concern. The moderators I know and admire from their "pre-moderator" days have always seemed fair. I have noticed that they do not post as much, which is a shame.

    I guess my question is "What is really hurtful to the group as a whole?" I know what changes I see that I don't like, but that doesn't necessarily mean the majority agrees.

    Anyway, good luck with your survey of opinion. I hope I have helped in some way.

    CC9
     
  9. prepstudinsc

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    Everyone needs to get a grip and stop whining. There's far too much complaining about which poster is better or if someone doesn't respect another poster. Grow up and act like adults. This isn't kindergarten, butsome of you act like it is. "Teacher, so and so made fun of my posting..." "Moderator, please look at ____, they don't respect me..." Blah, blah, blah... Stop your blithering and blathering and stop making "poor me" type posts and trying to get attention. Most of us are sick of it...
     
  10. Ummagumma

    Ummagumma New Member

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    Hey prepstud...

    High Five!

    Let's not forget people, some of us are just here to talk about cocks and the men and women who love em.
     
  11. Lordpendragon

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    Most moderate moderators moderate mostly moderately
     
  12. bakardi420

    bakardi420 Member

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    I think he just wants alex and sorcerer to hit on him more! :naughty:
     
  13. DC_DEEP

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    Stronzo, you have gotten to know me well enough, through our exchanges in the threads and in PMs, to know that I'm not one of those reactionary types, nor am I one of the "popular kids" nor any of those other epithets that have been hurled in my direction by a few members. I'm pretty egalitarian - if I praise a post by a popular kid, I'll praise a post by one of the unpopular ones... and the same goes for berating someone. My posts (unless topically required) always address the ideas, not the poster.

    That being said, I'm not really sure what your purpose is with this thread. I'm all for minimal Moderator intervention. If an idiot wants to make an idiotic post, that is his prerogative. If I want to tell him that his post is idiotic, that's my prerogative. No moderator intervention required nor desired. The troll blight is usually self-healing. You know I generally enjoy your posts, but I have to say that with a codicil. When I checked "new posts" this morning, I noticed you started a thread about "enough with the threads about circumcision, it's been done." I haven't had time yet to go through that thread, but I feel I need to comment. This was exactly the conflict you and I had early on - which, of course, we worked out just fine. But I have to emphasize again, if that thread holds no interest for you, please just pass it by. For some people, the subject IS of interest, and is important, and they feel the need to discuss it further. I admit that there is the possibility of going back through the archives and reviving some of the old threads, rather than starting new ones. Except that many readers would prefer to read the first 3 pages of a new thread, rather than starting at page 54 of an old thread with new posts.

    With two exceptions, all the moderators know me well enough to understand my posts, and I have had no problems... even when I present unpopular or uncomfortable issues. But the fair play DOES have to go both ways, and applied equally. Those threads about "does your cock make cool squishy sounds in her cunt" are pretty moronic, but I don't ask them to stop posting, I just simply skip those stupid threads. The "I'm so big my cock gets stuck, and we have to wait for the EMT to get here to pull us apart" threads, I generally have to add a little human physiology and then some sarcasm, but I don't ask them to stop posting. The "I'm so big that my cockhead makes bruises on my ankles" threads just make me roll my eyes.

    Alright, enough of my rant. Now let's head out for some Sam Adams Boston Ale (one of my favorites), laugh about morons who don't know the difference between "epistomology" and "episiotomy", and I'll teach you how to square dance......
     
  14. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
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    ...in moderational moderation.
     
  15. Ummagumma

    Ummagumma New Member

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    I like how I high fived someone and did just what they were bitching about in another thread. Gooooooo hypocrisy!
     
  16. B_horribleperson

    B_horribleperson New Member

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    little kid: Mommy the people on the internet message board dont listen to me and make fun of me

    Mom: go get some real friends
     
  17. Dr Rock

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    ughh, i agree with prepstud and horribleperson

    i need to take a shower now
     
  18. DC_DEEP

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    Lordpendragon, regarding your "signature:" How about if I stand while someone gives me head, and if anyone is on the roof, you can point your dick into his moon?

    (I hope I understood correctly...)
     
  19. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    DC,

    Please understand that this was a decidedly delicate thread for me to initiate and I only did so with due consideration to what one poster :)wink:) has rather properly called a character flaw to which I admit I suffer; "being too principled".

    I ran the topic by no one. So it stands as it came from me. It's based partly in personal experience here and in what I see as a decided need to "nip" a partiality that I see growing in strength in the place. To that end I submitted a thread topic that will (as I initially stated) invite overt attack on my character.

    My shoulders are broad though and I can take it.

    But I'm really glad you've posted so thoughtfully here.


    Yes DC I don't see you in that "popular kids" place at all. You like several who remain constantly your own person remain impartial in your take and always considered in your responses. That early conflict of ours was a monstrous misunderstanding on my part for which I'll apologize again. You're a fine man.


    To cut to the chase it's about really one thing: Equal application of moderator rules to all posters irrespective of personal moderator preference. That's it.

    But it becomes complex because we're dealing with the nuances in personality of many highly intelligent moderators and posters. And sometimes that very intelligence can cloud clear judgment in my opinion. Fair play can be rationalized away by verbiage and dismissal if it's allowed to be. I don't want to see this place suffer for it and since the phenomenon of moderation is new it's still in its infancy and there's much to be learned.

    However my intent here is pretty clearly stated in my intiating post DC. Please reread it. I obviously think that certain moderators apply the rules discriminately based on their own liking of the poster in question. That's plain enough.

    But additionally and most importantly it was implied (sorry not 'implied' but outright stated) that I was interested in "ruining the board" - an accusation I don't take lightly since I like this place immensely. It was something that I won't abide no matter what the source and if my vehemence in promoting board harmony is dissected and ridiculed by those who "don't like Stronzo" I don't give a flying fuck. They're inconsequential to me anyhow. People like you and d20, and SenorRubirosa, and Mercurialbliss are fine people with a sense of perspective who don't bring a hidden agenda to this place so I don't mind explaining myself to you guys (jeff black and GoneA and key others are in here too...)

    But the rest? Fuck 'em.

    As should be your right. And it was always my assumption that what you say here should and was the case until quite recently. I've found that it's not however. Indeed much like a famous conflict I've had with another poster on this board, it should have been handled in private pm (I tried numerous times) but was superceded in that case by unnecessary and biased input of certain moderators. Please note I say certain moderators... not all.

    The larger question then becomes; can all of us (moderators and posters alike) learn as we all become comfortable with moderation as a phenomenon? I say we'd better be able to... or abuses are bound to happen.

    Well it shouldn't be anyway. But I have concrete proof that its there nonetheless.

    Agreed.

    The only person, it appears, who "got" what my intent was behind the initiation of that "enough with..." thread appears to be NineInchCock. He knew it was sarcasm. It wasn't supposed to be inflamatory. I thought that was pretty clear by the very nature of the title. But again I've ask that you not critique me here personally. I also made that clear in my thread initiating post so I'd ask you to refrain.


    Again, it was tongue-in-cheek. But the subject has been rehashed beyond any semblance of reasonable discussion.
    Yes and those in question like you. One you've stated you even know personally. You're now getting to the crux of the thing. There's a missing piece to this thing that you and I can (if need be) discuss privately DC. But suffice it to say I found it sufficiently important to create this thread (even to the point of threatening my own longevity in this place) to improve board application of rules without bias. (Again here I address your "I'm not quite sure why" question)


    Good. Now we get to the "popluarity" thing:

    Additionally, it's because you don't rattle cages per se. Your style is a good deal less bombastic than my own can be. Much like my good friend dong20 you're considerate and polite in your responses (much as certain posters/moderators decry that phenomenon as "fake") it earns you brownie points. Indeed my style is so simliar to one moderator that it must be immediately apparent to all. In fact I'm actually less unkind than that moderator. Yet who moderates that indvidual? No one. And if the mods (as they themselves pronounce) are "no different" when posting than the rest of us we all, of necessity, ought to be able to post as vocally as the mod I have in mind. But that is not my own experience. And before it spreads to those less able to take issue with the "powers that be" I'll speak now.

    My point in referring to this particular mod is that if that mod has "no special board privileges" (and indeed no other posters do) why is it that that moderator and chosen board members can slam and attack a person's 'intrinsic worth' where others are scolded and given a formal board warning for using less aggressive wording? It's one of the key reasons I've initiated this thread. I'm talking about equal application of the rules here DC and that's all.

    Now you've arrived at precisely my premise in composing this thread and I thank you for stating this so well.

    I'm with you. I by-pass those threads immediately and realize that though they have entertainment value to some they're irrelevant to my interests in this board.

    And enough of mine too!

    I'll buy the first round my friend. :smile: And since you got a bit personal with me I'll return the serve: Glad you and I mended our fence.

    'square dancing'???:eek:

    quelle horreur! Surely you jest....
     
  20. madame_zora

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    Which is a good reason to do it 1,000 more times, right?

    It's a great job changing adult diapers.
     
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