Fair play generally at LPSG

Lex

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Stronzo said:
...

'Potty talk'?? You're joking. I've seen "fucktard" here as a matter of course nearly daily! Are you serious??

For a recent recounting of similar epithets see the boasting nature of just such comments in a thread where one of your "own" posted about his favorite insult:

http://www.lpsg.org/et-cetera-et-cetera/30791-insults-give-your-best-shot.html

Here's a sampling:

Lex said:
Cuntface Fucktard remains one of my all time favorites.
'potty mouth' indeed........:rolleyes:
I just want to add some context to this open quote. Fucktard has been used in these fora, yes. In the chat room one day, we were discussing insults in general (weeks ago) and FindFireFox coined "Cuntface Fucktrard" and he and Mattness joked about it over the ensuing weeks.

So, although you have quoted me saying that I like that insult, that particular phrase "Cuntface fucktard" has never been said in its entirety either on the board (with the exception of Pecker repateing it here) or by me, directed towards someone.

So, who's being biased now? Why select something I said that was not directed at anyone? Why not select one of the posts/insults you've reported of other members?

Stronzo--have you stopped to consider that out of the dozens of warnings that have been issued by the Moderator Team, how odd it is that you are the only member to feel so slighted as to start a thread about it? I'm being serious here.

You say you don't want this thread to be about you, yet this thread would not have happened had you not earned a warning, PMd half the board and Moderator team and then started this thread as a way to air your grievance. Hence, this thread can't help but be about you.

There are members who are not commenting on this subject or topic simply because you started it. If we really wanted to have this discussion without bias, some one else should have started the thread, IMHO.
 

dong20

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Lex said:
So, although you have quoted me saying that I like that insult, that particular phrase "Cuntface fucktard" has never been said in its entirety either on the board (with the exception of Pecker repateing it here) or by me, directed towards someone.

I have to disagree there (my bold above):


07-06-2006, 01:02 AM

findfirefox said:
Pichulon does not even understand what "CuntFace FuckTard" meens, is it really that complicated?

Well, let's ignore that as it's purely hypothetical at this point.

and

07-15-2006, 03:27 AM

findfirefox said:
I'm done being even remotely calm, you have got to be the biggest cuntface on the planet, I mean really what the fuck is up with you, you don't "take in" any information and you run around and ask questions then ignore what everyone says, why don't you quit fucking talking, or wait that might be to to confusing, how about...

SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU CUNTFACE FUCKTARD!!!!!!

Do you get?

By the fucking way you are asking for orientation and gender if you have not fucking realised it yet.

Fucktard

I especially like the huge bold red type just to emphasise the point.

From Mindseye's PM to Stronzo:
"Instead of challenging [her] words and ideas, you've crossed the line by attacking the intrinsic worth of the poster as a person. Calling someone 'infinitely unlikeable' and 'an asshole', for example, doesn't address any points the poster has raised, any ideas [she's] espoused, or any particular characteristics of [her] posting style. These phrases are just wholesale denigration of another person, and outside our standards for acceptable conduct."

Let's err on the side of caution and ignore the blue as FF's comment does seem to address his concerns at Pichulon's posting style, at least indirectly though, I'd also add, marginally. Well, it was in a general flow of the thread so maybe it's covered by:

"In fact, we let you get away recently with[......]in the course of a post which, except for the mean-spirited potty talk, contributed nonetheless to the thread at hand."

I'm unconvinced. But it's not really about what's said, rather than the context in which it's said but overall I'd say calling someone a Cuntface Fucktard in huge underlined bold red type qualifies as an attack on the intrinsic worth of the poster as a person.

I'm just asking; does it being made along side others saying broadly similar things or not being pre-emptive make it less so?

FF, nothing personal, you just drew the short straw.:smile:
 

B_Stronzo

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Lex said:
Stronzo--have you stopped to consider that out of the dozens of warnings that have been issued by the Moderator Team, how odd it is that you are the only member to feel so slighted as to start a thread about it? I'm being serious here.

And I will answer you seriously.. I know you don't like that I've taken issue but you're not dealing with your run-of-the-mill poster here Lex. You're dealing with me and lest you confuse me with them I'll state it clearly; I don't take injustice in any venue be it here or in the real world. That ought to make it clear enough. I should have thought that was abundantly clear in my thread compositons and in my posting style. I bet the same can be said of you too. (and I mean that 'seriously')

You say you don't want this thread to be about you, yet this thread would not have happened had you not earned a warning, PMd half the board and Moderator team and then started this thread as a way to air your grievance. Hence, this thread can't help but be about you.

No. Probably not. But I had hoped it didn't need to be personalized. But Heath put any hope of that to bed last night.

I didn't 'pm half the board' Lex. Jesus stop thinking of me as your enemy. I pmed five mods and three or four friends to the best of my recollection. And I forwarded it and my reply to Rob too. That's all. Please, again, try and be accurate. Incongruities will come back to you. So play fair.

First off my fellow member I never 'earned' anything that was not due many others (including the individual with whom I took issue in my initial directiveness in all this). In fact many times during her veiled racism thread I asked her to take our conversation to me in private (in an effort to give the thread back to other posters) but she arrogantly said she wanted to have that discourse in her thread. It was becoming abundantly clear that she was gunning for me personally. See a set-up Lex? I do. But no pm dialogue (over that issue) was ever forthcoming. As I stated I'd been perfectly fine with my warning were the same applied to all offending parties including you since I think you own guilt in that attack on my person. And no, the context of any use of "cuntface fucktard" has no bearing however much or little it's employed. It's an attack on a person's 'intrinsic worth'. Hell, alex8 called me 'an annoying little man' (hugs alex!) which I could have taken as an insult to my intrinsic worth but hey we're all big and strong here aren't we? I knew it was a reaction and he and I have become closer. I deserved it too since I can be one! Therefore, any attempt at justification for negative epithets in general is purely back-peddling on your part. So I say "say it and own it" or don't write it.

And no I didn't, initially, want this thread to be 'about [me]' Lex. I was hoping (as I stated emphatically in my thread opening post) that I wanted a perspective as to the standards generally as they applied to all members - poster and moderator-posters alike. Much as I asked people not to make this a personal thing and to kindly not take dead aim at me many have. I knew it would happen since I have a big personality. But to answer you directly it was not my original intent.

That said, several (and most overtly you) among our resident moderators have chosen to make it 'about [me]'. dong20 pointed it out precisely and then there was mindseye's perceived "outing of my intent" by posting only half of the warning scenario since it's becoming increasingly obvious to question a moderator decision is just "not done" much as you folks continue to say you're nothing but 'fellow posters'. To explain further I will tell you that I was afforded no real explanation for my warning when received I forward my response (some of which you've posted here) to several of you in hopes that I'd begin to understand why it was sent to me when the individual behind that warning (at least in part) was not sent a similar warning for her part in inciting board discord. I interpreted that warning (which as you know now I've posted here last night) to mean exactly what it said it meant.

Only later did I learn that it was now a "cumulative" thing and that ex-moderator Pappy's parting warning to me that you and Jana were gunning to get me banned was largely truthful much as you both denied it at the time. If necessary I can post his fleeting pm and yours and Jana's denials. I've saved all.

But back to the genesis of this thing and that "missing piece" where I was called out by our friend BronxBombshell-

This fact has gone incessantly unacknowledged by all of you and it's pivotal to how my relationship with her degenerated so openly on this board. But yet you all rather conveniently do not hold her accountable for making the initial blatant attack on my surroundings and her perception of the "place from which I come". Again. Much as she's proud of her heritage so am I as is my right and for you to somehow think its "kosher" that she 'denigrate' my surroundings and call me "one of those veiled racists I seek to out" (paraphase) is beyond illegitimate. Shame on you for not applying all the standards equally to all our posters.

Madame_zora has admitted she had extensive dialogue with BronxBombshell in an attempt to difuse her antipathy toward me implying that her discussions had made it somehow unnecessary to deliver an equally harsh warning to Bronx. In the name of fair play (and since at that time Jana and I were comfortably chatty) I should have thought it would have been at least kind for one of you (if not Jana) to have asked me privately that the volley stop. But you never did. You just blind-sided me with that blanket condemnation without the decency to afford me the same courtesy Jana had afforded BBS. Again we're at that "equality" place.

Bronx was greasing the wheel (she's attempted to again here on this thread too) as were you and Jana all the while by constantly regurgitating the "oh I must be BBS" sort of dialogue and "tee-heeing" at your cleverness while doing so. When I jumped in to suggest 'maybe it's Lex:eek:!' You posted a retort which was beyond reactionary suggesting I had no right to participate in the cleverness. You're an odd one to me Lex. I realize that some people need to feel powerful no matter what the forum but in here you've taken much worse personal shots (this thread alone) at me than would be brooked by any moderator here so I guess anything goes in this thread now much as I'd enjoy continuing to keep that 'bar' I mentioned in the beginning still high.

But much as BBS changed the rules in her "veiled racism" thread you changed them here. I'm only following your lead.

There are members who are not commenting on this subject or topic simply because you started it. If we really wanted to have this discussion without bias, some one else should have started the thread, IMHO.

And in my honest opinion such a thread would never have been started nor would I know as much about this board (which after the day is done is my ultimate goal for me and for other posting members in all this) had I not started it myself.

And for those who're 'not commenting'? Like all those in here who take unkind pot shots because they have nothing of value to add? I say a heartfelt;

"fuck 'em".

(there's that 'potty mouth' of mine again....:rolleyes:)
 

D_Sheffield Thongbynder

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I don't see any of the parties involved in this verbal exchange emerging with any sense of accomplishment. All the parties involved, as far as I can determine from my limited interaction with them and reading of their posts, are intelligent and strongly opinionated, and it saddens me to think that their energies are so misdirected. It appears there is a fair amount of misinterpetation of posts (not so uncommon), some sensitivity to issues because of previous experiences, and an unwillingness for anyone to take the high road and let this argument die. Those of us who enjoy the dialogue here because ordinarily it is so accepting of diversity are hoping for a speedy resolution one way or another. Pax LPSG.
[ducks to avoid retaliation]
 

B_Stronzo

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madame_zora said:
I just want to know how you could claim to be my friend, then behind my back start a rumor that I was Bronxbombshell. When I talked to you on the phone, you said it wasn't you who said it, it was someone else. "You never thought of me as anything other than a strong woman". I accepted that, because I hadn't memorised every word on the thread, but later I went back and read it. Guess what? You had admitting it WAS you at the beginning, just as I thought.

Lex?

The thread's been made about me. Need you more proof than Jana's diatribe?

Jana? I have spoken to you on the telephone but I don't (nor did I) think of you as a 'friend'. It would be impossible realizing how early-on you indicted me so overtly. Someone like that can turn on a dime.

We simply had, for a time, a civil rapport.

I adivse you not to live a vicarious life through this board (and I mean that with the utmost sincerity). Though I know you speak with many here on the telephone as a matter of course I think it's a false thing in reality and (as I explained to you during our one phone call) I don't do it generally. You'll note I've never called you.

And to answer you directly I did tell you I'd initially thought BBS was you. Yup I stated it outright on the 'phone that day. But I went on to say you were much more articulate and that I'd now thought (if indeed BBS was/is an imposter) that the poster may well be a man. I also told you (and I can confirm) that I was not alone in my suspicions about her true identity. But who fucking cares? I don't care anymore. She's been vindicated by monstrous board bolstering... whoever she is. She's big girl. She'll survive.

I'll survive this too. It's just an interesting phenomenon to witness in a board which professes to espouse (at least by implication) freedom of expession.

Haven't I devoted thousands of words to your little problem recently, didn't I try? You know I keep PMs, do you really think I'm going to let you paint yourself a victim after this irrational behavior?

You're devoted nothing to me. You have, much as I do, what my mother calls "diarrhea of the mouth" and this is fun for you since you love drama as much as the next gay man. And I don't 'paint' myself as anything other than I am; "vicitim", "American", "homosexual", "clever fellow", "annoying little man":tongue: , etc.... And Jana? You have no power over letting me 'paint[ing] myself' green if I so choose. So relax.

What the hell goes on in your mind?

There's that 'intrinsic worth' insult thingy again....:rolleyes:

Rational thought 'goes on in my mind'. Try it on for size.
 

DC_DEEP

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I have ripe tomatoes and bushy cilantro in the garden, plus some lovely fat Vidalia onions in the pantry. I think I'll make some pico de gallo. Chips and salsa, anyone?
 

B_Stronzo

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COLJohn said:
I don't see any of the parties involved in this verbal exchange emerging with any sense of accomplishment. All the parties involved, as far as I can determine from my limited interaction with them and reading of their posts, are intelligent and strongly opinionated, and it saddens me to think that their energies are so misdirected. It appears there is a fair amount of misinterpetation of posts (not so uncommon), some sensitivity to issues because of previous experiences, and an unwillingness for anyone to take the high road and let this argument die. Those of us who enjoy the dialogue here because ordinarily it is so accepting of diversity are hoping for a speedy resolution one way or another. Pax LPSG.
[ducks to avoid retaliation]

John?

I gave it my best shot initially.

I'd not have responded in kind (and I despise doing so) had certain key players not taken direct aim. But this "us and them" thing has got to stop. If it isn't it'll be the undoing of the place which to me is beyond comprehensible.

I've made my point. I've been read. It's all fine.

I'm hoping for a speedy resolution too. Yours are the words of a man I respect and admire. They're not taken lightly. Perhaps (just perhaps) some good has come from it all. Only time will tell that tale.

I know I'll never feel the same way about this place again. But all this was just brewing under the surface. The end result is only the "big blast" since so many have taken such a biased view. There exists a snobbery here among many active posters (perhaps a reverse one in fact) which needs to be stopped before this place only really becomes an extension of MENSA. I think for it to become so would be a terrible pity. I enjoy the light-hearted aspects of the place as much as the heady ones and in composing this thread I sought only (much as others will sy it wasn't my intent) to expose a tendancy to bully unpopular views off this board. To that end I think it's been (in the long-term) probably successful.

Thanks COLJohn for grounding the discussion.

R.
 

B_Stronzo

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DC_DEEP said:
I have ripe tomatoes and bushy cilantro in the garden, plus some lovely fat Vidalia onions in the pantry. I think I'll make some pico de gallo. Chips and salsa, anyone?

Oh yes please.

I'll meet you out on the terrace and we'll chat amicably. What say you DC?
 

AlteredEgo

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It is extraordinarily egotistical to believe that a 700 post thread could be directed at any individual. I never intended to name names and make it about the individuals who inspired the idea for the discussion of the issue- veiled racism. What I have noticed in the past about having conversations in front of closet racists, and racists in denial is that they can't help but get the guilty feeling they're the ones being discussed, and they have very specific behaviors they get into to make sure the participants know they aren't racist. The same goes for homophobes, but I wasn't talking about them. I wanted it to be clear in my opening post that anyone who came in with a littany of "not me", especially if I'd already seen them post something outrageous to me elsewhere would out themselves and be embarrassed. Dilz was privy to most of my thoughts at the time, and the question was posed wondering who I was hinting at, and he answered it. You know Dilz. But that thread was never about those individuals. Once it shifted though, I definitely saw no need for it to become a private discussion. I am sorry only that Stronzo felt persecuted.
 

B_Stronzo

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I'm out BB.

"over and out"

Good to catch up with you but I'm not taking the personal stuff any longer. You guys use this as a peronsal indictment thread to assassinate my character to your heart's content. Anything further becomes redundant. I don't like you.. you don't like me. Done. It's all been said so anything more is reiteration.

Just leave your droppings here okay and don't pursue me or this into other threads. I think that's a fair request.

I'm made my position crystal clear. I'm good with that.

Be well.
 

DC_DEEP

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vinny_spiruccino said:
Ok - so you guys are having phone sex, and I'm left out? What the fucking fuckety fuck is that about? I call "veiled malice" towards Vinny's ego. I'm starting my own thread.
Don't you DARE whine. I've invited you to come on back to DC to get some of the real thing. You always just TEASE me by saying "someday..." Don't you even dare whine, or I'll put something in your mouth to shut you up!
 

D_Sheffield Thongbynder

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I noticed how you carefully worded this to avoid reciprocity with Vinny. You're smarter than I thought, DC. We wouldn't want your voice stilled.:wink:


DC_DEEP said:
Don't you DARE whine. I've invited you to come on back to DC to get some of the real thing. You always just TEASE me by saying "someday..." Don't you even dare whine, or I'll put something in your mouth to shut you up!
 

rawbone8

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Bronxy, he did not feel merely persecuted, it is obvious he feels he has been slandered by you labeling him a racist, and that on principle he has to stand up for his reputation. The problem is his methods of obtaining redress are byzantine and circumspect, and occasionally when angered enough he goes direct to flat-out loss of self control and spews vitriol that raises enough attention that he gets this warning.

Stronzo's persona very much fits the archetype of the chauvinist, in that he will pursue his battles and campaigns blindly to the Nth degree. It is a worthy thing to have strong principles, and I "get" that he feels passionately that the gay community deserves more respect and and ultimately true equality. I believe that too. Just try to gain some sense of proportion in dealing with people on a message board.

I have no problem with colourful characters and personalities. I hope Stronzo feels better soon.