Father Kills Daughter; Doubted Virginity

meatpackingbubba

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RoyalT: You and your narrow minded thinking can be attributed to some of the problems facing us as a civilization. Yes, it is really SO intolerant to find murder unacceptable.

There are plenty of perople in the GOOD OLE US OF A that will willingly abandon a homosexual offspring to die in the streets; There are? I have not noticed this to be such a pressing issue in the US. I had better spend more time at the bookstore reading. than accept them for who they are. While this may not be literally the same as killing your offspring' in some aspects it is better to kill them because atleast you have not abandoned them to be exploited by others. Oh really? I hadn't fully considered how thoughtful killing one's offspring could be in order to spare them all the nastiness of discovering life for themselves. So it is not only in this part of the world that we problems but everywhere; they take different forms' thats all. Ok...now I understand. Why was it so difficult for me to grasp that it is really all our fault for being less than perfect?

I totally agree that killing your children for honour is not right but society has to also be willing to share in the blame for their actions towards these families if any true changes are to be made. Of course it is society's fault....it would be SO unfair to expect the individual to take responsibility for his or her own actions. I seiously doubt that the father was happy about killing his daughter; The poor man was probably wracked with distress. Perhaps we should start a fund for him so he can take a nice vacation to recover. I cannot imagine the inner conflict he must have gone through to come to this decision. Neither can I since his mind apparently functions in an entirely different manner than mine.


I am certainly sorry for whatever experiences you may have had in your childhood that brings you to the conclusions which you put forth and I sincerely hope that you can find the love and nurturing which you need that will help you heal and become whole again.


 

kamikazee_club

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Excuse me??? This has got to be the most shining example of apologist psycho-babble which I have ever read.

Shame.


It is a breach of protocol to express one's opinion that someone that murders a child might be "fucked up"? That the murder of one's child is only a "western taboo"?

No, of course it's not. Just don't expect everyone to hold that same view as you, that's what this is about, relative morality. There is a difference between feeling revulsion about an act and being willing to try and understand that not every culture holds those same values to the same degree. I think it's a terrible thing, which, if you had actually read what I've said in this thread rather than jumping on a soapbox you would know (unless you need a diagram?).

I'm not apologising for it, I didn't commit the crime why would I apologise for it? Merely saying that in terms of what different cultures value, maybe it's time you opened your eyes and looked around at the world? You may be surprised, I was. Also, perhaps you could look up and understand the word Taboo in a criminal/social context, it may help.


The "underlying issue" is quite clear, my friend, and does not need any sympathetic analysis to be understood. Nor does it need any relativism or justification by being compared with hatred and bigotry that may exist elsewhere.

It may be time to remove one's head from one's ass and call a spade a spade.



I'm not your friend and my head is fine where it is thank you. I'm not sure about yours. I'm happy to hear your [un]sympathetic analysis, hopefully it's one that doesn't involve spades?

This is why I reject morality and ethical relativism.

My heart still goes out to all the victims of this absurd reality.

I hate it too, but that isn't going to make it disappear any time soon. Again I echo your sentiments.
 

meatpackingbubba

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Kamikazee,

Perhaps you're right and I fail to understand the message you are trying to convey with your postings before I jumped on my "soapbox" (also known as expressing my opinion). What exactly IS the point which you are trying to make?

It seems to me that several postings here (not specifically ones which you have made) are seeking to temper the disgust most feel about such acts with the justification of cultural differences and a need to sympathetically understand the motivations of the perpetrator.

It is universally accepted, in the civilized world at least, that murder is wrong. I choose to believe that imposing one's sexual mores with the threat of death for non-compliance is reprehensible. Nothing relative about that.

(On a technical note, you may be misunderstanding the phrase "calling a spade a spade". I hope that you don't think I was employing an abhorent racial epithet. "Calling a spade a spade" is solely a reference to cards that comprise one of the four suites of cards in a deck, and the need to recognize that a spade is not a heart or diamond or club. In other words, seeing the card for what it is in fact not fantasy.)
 

kamikazee_club

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Kamikazee,

Perhaps you're right and I fail to understand the message you are trying to convey with your postings before I jumped on my "soapbox" (also known as expressing my opinion). What exactly IS the point which you are trying to make?


Well saying what I wrote was 'apologist psycho-babble' rubbish isn't really the same as expressing an opinion on the subject at hand, you didn't actually express a clear opinion other than anger in your whole post mostly it seemed directed at me, so far as I could tell anyway. I get that you think it was a terrible crime, so do I and I said so more than once, what more do you want?

It seems to me that several postings here (not specifically ones which you have made) are seeking to temper the disgust most feel about such acts with the justification of cultural differences and a need to sympathetically understand the motivations of the perpetrator.

Not temper it, understand it, to accept the different social pressures that may have led to this and other such crimes. Understanding something is NOT the same as condoning it, if you can't see that then this discussion is moot.

It is universally accepted, in the civilized world at least, that murder is wrong. I choose to believe that imposing one's sexual mores with the threat of death for non-compliance is reprehensible. Nothing relative about that.

That's your elemental mistake; define 'civilised'. Then come back here and lecture me/us on morality. Your definition of civilised may not be shared by all, but, I'm sure that doesn't concern you in the least.

(On a technical note, you may be misunderstanding the phrase "calling a spade a spade". I hope that you don't think I was employing an abhorent racial epithet. "Calling a spade a spade" is solely a reference to cards that comprise one of the four suites of cards in a deck, and the need to recognize that a spade is not a heart or diamond or club. In other words, seeing the card for what it is in fact not fantasy.)

There's nothing technical here and no I didn't misunderstand your use of the term 'spade' at all. I fail to see anywhere in what I wrote could you possibly have thought I did.
 

DC_DEEP

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Shelby and nitrofiend, do me a gargantuan favor, please: check the dictionary of your choice for two words: hyperbole, and irony.

big dirigible, you're just 4 credit hours short of a Ph. D. in Idiot Asshole, aren't you? No, wait, you are god. That's the problem. I'm glad you shared your omniscience of my feelings toward all religion.
 

B_Think_Kink

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I think that many things play a part in this story. If we were to ask someone from the place where this happened, we might get a much different story. It seems like he is a "sick fuck" to us, because that isn't how most of us were raised, or the beliefs, and values that were instilled in us. I'm not passing it off as right or wrong, but for us to go ahead and call names, and point fingers is wrong. I agree that the father probably went through a rough time having to come to this point. I'm sure he would have exhausted all other methods available to him, but that still doesn't give us the right to name call or put down another religion, belief, or whatever based on the actions he took.
 

DC_DEEP

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I think that many things play a part in this story. If we were to ask someone from the place where this happened, we might get a much different story. It seems like he is a "sick fuck" to us, because that isn't how most of us were raised, or the beliefs, and values that were instilled in us. I'm not passing it off as right or wrong, but for us to go ahead and call names, and point fingers is wrong. I agree that the father probably went through a rough time having to come to this point. I'm sure he would have exhausted all other methods available to him, but that still doesn't give us the right to name call or put down another religion, belief, or whatever based on the actions he took.
I agree to a point, TK, but almost all cultures value human life to some degree, and many value the lives of one's own children higher than that of strangers.

I think the problem many are having with the whole story is (whether their culture, or not) it is just a bit odd to value 1) the daughter's alleged or actual virginity, and 2) the "family honor" more than the life of the daughter herself. In other words, her snatch is exceptionally valuable, but she, as an entire person, is expendable. Or why the owner of the cock that ruined her was not also summarily executed.

And looking at it another way, one has to wonder how a value system developed where killing her brings back the virginal family honor. Of course, I never agreed with the value system in which I grew up. I never understood why virgin pussy was such a commodity, nor why a cock was considered equally valuable, new (great!) or used (nudge, nudge, wink wink).



Oh yes, I forgot to add: Remember also, that she was inspected by a CPA* before and after death, and certified virginal both times.

*certified pussy analyst
 

kamikazee_club

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I agree to a point, TK, but almost all cultures value human life to some degree, and many value the lives of one's own children higher than that of strangers.

I agree, it's that very wide variance that some here seem unable to grasp or accept as 'normal' [for them]. In attempting to explore that concept one finds oneself accused of somehow condoing or apologising for it.:confused:

I think the problem many are having with the whole story is (whether their culture, or not) it is just a bit odd to value 1) the daughter's alleged or actual virginity, and 2) the "family honor" more than the life of the daughter herself. In other words, her snatch is exceptionally valuable, but she, as an entire person, is expendable. Or why the owner of the cock that ruined her was not also summarily executed.

As I said earlier, it's very hard for us in 'civilised' nations to really grasp that another society can have what seem to us such twisted priorities. Ranting about how evil that is won't make it less so. Making unilateral 'they're fucked up' judgements make soothe one's concience but it does little else.

And looking at it another way, one has to wonder how a value system developed where killing her brings back the virginal family honor. Of course, I never agreed with the value system in which I grew up. I never understood why virgin pussy was such a commodity, nor why a cock was considered equally valuable, new (great!) or used (nudge, nudge, wink wink).

Damn straight. It's mostly a mystery, to me.
 

DC_DEEP

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As I said earlier, it's very hard for us in 'civilised' nations to really grasp that another society can have what seem to us such twisted priorities. Ranting about how evil that is won't make it less so. Making unilateral 'they're fucked up' judgements make soothe one's concience but it does little else.
Yes, except I never called them uncivilized, nor did I make any comment about it being evil or fucked up. I simply commented on my difficulty in understanding ANY culture ANYWHERE (including the fabulous western world) where some citizens are more equal than others, and some citizens are not equal at all. It all boils down to a lack of logical thinking. And it is not logical for any person to assert that it's ok for a male to have premarital sex, but not ok for a female. Nor is it logical for any person to kill another based on assumption of transgression, even in the face of mitigating evidence.
 

kamikazee_club

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Yes, except I never called them uncivilized, nor did I make any comment about it being evil or fucked up. I simply commented on my difficulty in understanding ANY culture ANYWHERE (including the fabulous western world) where some citizens are more equal than others, and some citizens are not equal at all. It all boils down to a lack of logical thinking. And it is not logical for any person to assert that it's ok for a male to have premarital sex, but not ok for a female. Nor is it logical for any person to kill another based on assumption of transgression, even in the face of mitigating evidence.

:confused: I know you didn't. It was a general observation about some earlier remarks, I wasn't referring to you DC_D.
 

meatpackingbubba

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You know, Kamikazee, I still don't understand why it is so important to try to understand the motivations of someone who kills one's children.

The murder is a crime in his own country. It is not a matter of a failure to understand his culture. Murder is not part of the culture and to say that is or needs to be "understood" it is really is nothing more than an excuse for inexcusable behavior.

I understand it for exactly what it is: murder.
 

B_spiker067

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Black and the female gender are at least as equal.

We are perfectly willing to embargo South Africa over Apartheid, why don't we do the same for all of the moslem world?

Let's tell them start treating you own women like human beings with full rights or go FUCK yourselves.

How can we expect them to view us infidels as full human beings until they treat their women that way, hmm?

I just said that to make a point to think about not to for a back and forth. :)
 

SpoiledPrincess

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In the UK police believe there are between 10 and 12 'honour' killings each year, and have recently re-opened files on approx 100 murders they suspect to have been 'honour' killings.
 

Nelly Gay

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In the UK police believe there are between 10 and 12 'honour' killings each year, and have recently re-opened files on approx 100 murders they suspect to have been 'honour' killings.


Murder is murder and to use the term "honour killing" gives these slayings an integrity and vindication they do not deserve ...