Fed Judge Rules Teacher Violated 1st Amendment with anti-creationism speech

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Trinity, May 9, 2009.

  1. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,682
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Female
  2. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    11,912
    Likes Received:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City, by way of Marblehead, Boston and Ge
    I can't, of course, view this thread. Would somebody let me know if there's anything actually worth considering or is it just another mindless rant/provocation please?
     
  3. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest
    Regardless of religious affiliation, teachers should not be calling any religion a 'fairy tale,' and announcing that to an entire classroom.

    The guy needs to resign.

    What an asshole.

    I'm not religious, but I would never force my beliefs on a child.
     
  4. dong20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    6,130
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    The grey country
    If one considers a high school history teacher an instrument of Government policy in the relation to the establishment clause (i.e. suggesting that creationism was 'superstitious nonsense') then maybe, yes ... just barely.

    Otherwise, it's a poorly judged expression of personal opinion in a professional context for which I suspect he will need to resign - for telling the truth. Oh, the irony.

    Here's the link.

    AP: 'Superstitious nonsense' remark violated rights|Garden City Telegram Online
     
  5. hud01

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,262
    Likes Received:
    23
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    new york city
    Many teachers force their beliefs on students, it is inevitable. Oh just for clarification he was an adolescent, not a child. He was old enough to help in conception....

    I don't see where he called a religion a fairy tale. He said creationism was a fairy tale.

    Now here is the fun part. Can you teach creationism in school, since that would be promoting or creating religion by a government employee.

    Finally weren't the teacher's first amendment rights violated...
     
  6. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest
    No, many teachers don't 'force' their beliefs on students. They provide instruction and guidance, not brainwashing and indoctrination.

    Huge difference there, huh?

    No.

    Are my first amendment rights violated if I tell my secretary I'd like to fuck her in the ass and cream on her back and I get fired?
     
  7. Mr. Snakey

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    24,702
    Likes Received:
    25
    This teacher needs to be fired and suspended from teaching anywhere for good.
     
  8. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    11,912
    Likes Received:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City, by way of Marblehead, Boston and Ge

    Thanks for the link, dong. On the whole, I think the judge's decision was well-balanced and I'm afraid that teacher did cross a line with that one portion of his statements. It's a fine one, however, and I think being censured for it might be punishment enough. Ending a career for it is overkill.
     
  9. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    10,576
    Likes Received:
    25
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Warwick, NY, USA
    Sure you can teach creationism in school. Religion is taught in public schools everywhere. So long as the focus is on teaching the material and not promoting it as a system of faith, it's completely legal.

    I agree that the teacher needs to be reprimanded for his comments. They were inappropriate and did violate the line between teaching and promoting an article of faith.

    Teachers do greatly influence what children believe simply by virtue of their positions. Teachers decide what material to emphasize and how it's presented, whether in the classroom or in administration. We rely upon these people to impart their knowledge and wisdom. Any time someone communicates with another person, there is bias, emphasis, and even opinion. No communication is untainted by belief in what is or is not being communicated.
     
  10. dong20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    6,130
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    The grey country
    While I don't believe the letter of the amendment was broken, the spirit ... almost certainly was - I'd have to say the teachers remarks [and thus their potential effect] fail the 'lemon' test, so it's hard to dismiss Selna's interpretation.

    No worries. I also think it was a misjudgement from a professional standpoint. One requiring some form of censure as you say, but a trial ... and the likely costs and consequences ...
     
  11. pym

    pym New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,400
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think the simple solution is this.....create a seperate class for those who wish to be taught fairy tales, and another for those interested in quantifiable truth. I am quite sure the minority that would be interested in the former over the latter would not tax the school district's finances too much.
    I was taught Biology,Chemistry, and Physics in school.......that other "SHIT" never came up.
     
  12. houtx48

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7,095
    Likes Received:
    35
    Gender:
    Male
    ''Many teachers force their beliefs on students''..................why do you think students have parents? Could it be for parent to force their beliefs on their children unless they are to lazy to parent.
     
  13. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    The teacher should have found a better way to voice their opinion on Creationism that didn't belittle or insult the student. Teachers should be more objective and more respectable than this. However, for the teacher to lose their job because of it seems a bit extreme. Perhaps a temporary suspension was more in order?

    Hmmmm... maybe if us libs get as desperate as the GOP, perhaps we could endorse this teacher to go on tour the same way conservatives will be endorsing Miss California? :rolleyes:
     
  14. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,682
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Female
    I agree with Mr. Snakey. The teacher should be fired. The twenty statements cited in the lawsuit demonstrated that the teacher had an agenda to favor "irreligion over religion" and to indoctrinate his students with anti-creationist and even anti-conservative thinking. The teacher did this with premeditation, intent and malice.

    Even though the court only ruled one statement violated the establishment clause, no school district should allow teachers to make the statements the teacher, Corbett made in the course of teaching. His statements were prejudiced against religion specifically Christianity, prejudiced against conservatism and made students of faith uncomfortable in the classroom. The students were in the classroom to learn an entirely different subject from the Teacher's agenda of "irreligion" and anti-conservatism.

    If the teacher is unable to perform is job without putting forth his own agenda then he does not need to be in the classroom. It's not overkill to weed out teachers violating the establishment clause and using the classrom to repeatedly step up to the line of violating the establishment clause with malice.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted