Federal Job Guarantee

keenobserver

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This gentleman's quote below is arguing against any sort of generic "jobs" program with the old "socialism doesn't work' canard.

My post is a pushback against his erroneous notion that socialism doesn't work. I didn't quote him because I just didn't feel like it.





I certainly didn't put forth the notion that it was... that's your strawman.



I certainly didn't put forth the notion that it was...again, that's your strawman.



Which was the point of my VERY SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND post.

But that wasn't what you said, was it . . .
 

tripod

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But that wasn't what you said, was it . . .

Works Progress Administration - Great Depression

The WPA lifted millions out of poverty... to think otherwise is historical revisionism.

A member thought otherwise and hence my post.

What is your fucking problem? Do you just have a STRONG desire to fuck with me?

My post is 100% PERFECT, there isn't an ounce wrong with it... yet you are still talking shit... it's getting more than a little old. Your posts are filled with NOTHING and you are still constantly talk shit.

WASTING MY FUCKING TIME.

WHY DO YOU WANT TO WASTE MY TIME? DO YOU GET OFF ON IT?

Your a fucking troll and you're trolling me all over this forum with your bullshit. Cut it out.
 

keenobserver

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A member thought otherwise and hence my post.

What is your fucking problem? Do you just have a STRONG desire to fuck with me?

My post is 100% PERFECT, there isn't an ounce wrong with it... yet you are still talking shit... it's getting more than a little old. Your posts are filled with NOTHING and you are still constantly talk shit.

WASTING MY FUCKING TIME.

WHY DO YOU WANT TO WASTE MY TIME? DO YOU GET OFF ON IT?

Your a fucking troll and you're trolling me all over this forum with your bullshit. Cut it out.

Psst . . .there is an ignore feature that works pretty well. Any post in a public forum is fair for all users to comment on or ignore.
 
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lightining

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Do you have *any* idea how many people can tell you otherwise? :eek:
Myself being in the workforce for over 40 years I know what it takes, I've never been fired from a job I've watched other employees come and go do to their lack of work ethic, hard work and a good attitude is what it takes, and if for some reason you lose your job show some character pull yourself up by the bootstraps and get another job
 

lightining

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Who defines if you do your job correct?


What if I demand 100% every day? - I know everyone says "I give 100%", but that's not possible. You really have to love what you do to get close to 100% every day. Most people work for the money, not because they love their job. Therefore they can't give 100% all the time.
Knowing you can't, even if it's demanded creates fear.

Have a closer look at Amazon and you know how fear works.
Speaking from experience, there are obtainable expectations of an employee of what should be accomplished in a day's work there are many different factors to weed out undesirable employees , it would be employees that perhaps falsified their application, or do not have the Technical Training or skill to do a particular job, all of this will sort itself out during the probation period, I would say this group of people would have some fear of losing their job
 

tripod

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Myself being in the workforce for over 40 years I know what it takes, I've never been fired from a job I've watched other employees come and go do to their lack of work ethic, hard work and a good attitude is what it takes, and if for some reason you lose your job show some character pull yourself up by the bootstraps and get another job

You are effectively describing the labor environment of Bangladesh.

the corruption started with socialism

Venezuela's economic problems are complex but the biggest problem that the country faces is with inflation.

That inflation was caused by a shortage of US dollars... for a country that is a petro-state while the US dollar is currently the
petro-dollar and that imports a large amount of goods, that spells certain disaster for their economy.

The shortage of US dollars was 100% engineered by US foreign policy... you know "economic warfare".
 

wallyj84

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Thank you...
So it's not a guarantee that you will never be unemployed, but more a guarantee that you will always find a decent payd job.

While I wouldn't focus on the word guarantee, I would point out the basic idea, that the state offers a large number of jobs because they want to provide a good service.

His plan sounds good. Something I think every western nation should de. We need it badly.

This reminds me of the only thing I thought Trump was right. His 2 trillion infrastructure investment plan... what happened to it?

The guarantee part is the problem, but it's also the selling point. Otherwise you're just saying the government will hire people to do... stuff.

I don't have problem with a federal work program, but it has to be more focussed and have concrete goals and an end point.
 
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Perados

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The guarantee part is the problem, but it's also the selling point. Otherwise you're just saying the government will hire people to do... stuff.

I don't have problem with a federal work program, but it has to be more focussed and have concrete goals and an end point.
To run a program just to employ people barely gets you anywhere.

If the state creates jobs it has to be to challenge current problems.
Energy change, investments in infrastructure, better education, better research and development, better administration, better security, better health care, better controls for better apply with laws and regulations...

If you just tell people to dig a hole and put the earth back in later, you may have reduced unemployment, but people aren't more motivated and nothing has been achieved. You could have hand out unemployment payments, the effect would have been the same.


But how I read Sanders plan, he aims for employment with purpose. He wants to improve the economy...
 

lightining

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You are effectively describing the labor environment of Bangladesh.

Perhaps Bangladesh and many more countries, they're getting it done this way. I think they're doing a pretty good job

Venezuela's economic problems are complex but the biggest problem that the country faces is with inflation.

That inflation was caused by a shortage of US dollars... for a country that is a petro-state while the US dollar is currently the
petro-dollar and that imports a large amount of goods, that spells certain disaster for their economy.

The shortage of US dollars was 100% engineered by US foreign policy... you know "economic warfare".
 

lightining

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This gentleman's quote below is arguing against any sort of generic "jobs" program with the old "socialism doesn't work' canard.

Capitalism is what works we have the richest nation in the world, and it's ran on capitalism, no notion it's a fact socialism doesn't work

My post is a pushback against his erroneous notion that socialism doesn't work. I didn't quote him because I just didn't feel like it.





I certainly didn't put forth the notion that it was... that's your strawman.



I certainly didn't put forth the notion that it was...again, that's your strawman.



Which was the point of my VERY SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND post.
 

wallyj84

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To run a program just to employ people barely gets you anywhere.

If the state creates jobs it has to be to challenge current problems.
Energy change, investments in infrastructure, better education, better research and development, better administration, better security, better health care, better controls for better apply with laws and regulations...

If you just tell people to dig a hole and put the earth back in later, you may have reduced unemployment, but people aren't more motivated and nothing has been achieved. You could have hand out unemployment payments, the effect would have been the same.


But how I read Sanders plan, he aims for employment with purpose. He wants to improve the economy...

But there is no way to guarantee those jobs would be created for everyone or in a way that would benefit all regions of the country. That is why the guarantee part is so bad.
 
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It depends on the definition as was previously stated. The thing that probably brought Roosevelt closest to his belief was called World War II, when industry was expanded and the male population was drafted into a large military.

You could enact an expanded Federal Jobs Program; my own opinion calling anything a "guarantee" is absolute bullshit and a recipe for disaster. There are absolutely great people that have been fucked or had a bad luck of the draw that would probably be able to recover if they were guaranteed a fair chance at long term employment.

Nothing is free, the downside to an expanded Federal Jobs program would be increased taxes; but Federal Workers are already taxed so you would get back at least 20 +/- % of what was being paid anyway.

There would be no "free" college because it would offer a GI like bill, meaning you have to serve to get something back. Health insurance would be similar, contrary to popular belief held by most Republicans, Federal workers do not get "free health care".

Most countries I have watched recover from economic disasters have usually done so on expanded infrastructure projects. Jobs promote jobs and services in the commercial sector as well.

The programs would also shatter a lot dreams as people would have to give up their rights to privacy for background investigations, random and mandatory drug testing, ID cards and Fingerprinting, accountability (trust me Federal Workers are more accountable than the "politically appointed"). Welfare could be reduced because there would be no more "handouts" and the only people drawing it would be those in absolute circumstances that could not work

Most of the things that are fucked up in "big government" right now are because the government has been gravitating towards a "business model" pushed by both political parties for the last 25 + years; meaning fewer people, with fewer checks and balances.
 
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Perados

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But there is no way to guarantee those jobs would be created for everyone or in a way that would benefit all regions of the country. That is why the guarantee part is so bad.
That's correct.
At least the regions part isn't a big problem in America. You are very mobile, compared to Germans.
The average German only moves 4 times in his life and usually not more than 50km away from his birthplace.

But you can't guarantee enough jobs and jobs for every kind of qualification.
That's why I would rate his "guarantee" as kickbait. Everything else wouldn't attract enough attention...
That's why he should try to take every attention to his plan, away from the guarantee. It's definitely not beneficial for his campaign.
 

twoton

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It’s an interesting spin on welfare-to-work programs, wherein a person has to work (eventually) to receive benefits. In the guaranteed job case, you’re given a job and presumably will need fewer welfare benefits. In the other, you’re given benefits but have to find a job.

At the same time, we’re discussing all sorts of student loan forgiveness programs.
 

gr8gatsby

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There are a number of excellent replies here. There are times when I have felt the government should hire people for public works and infrastructure projects when unemployment is fairly high. I think government programs that are supposed to provide specific services should be fully staffed if they are expected to return optimum results. However the idea that everyone would have a guaranteed job, in perpetuity somehow funded by the government is just not a good idea. I agree with you it is a backward idea, and would be a disaster in as an election issue and a cluster fuck of epic proportions to implement. What would be the point of "free college" if person did not need it for a job? What the hell would the government do with all the philosophy majors who can't find jobs? It's early yet, but I feel a Bernie slide beginning with idea like this. Not a good sign - for him.
Philosophy majors would dig ditches or do whatever is needed at the moment ... in a program like this you wouldn't get to choose your career. That would be impossible.