Federal judge- DOMA is unconstitutional

Bbucko

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Not so fast. The federal government itself will have to recognize the relationships as legit for the the playing field to change. With this being an election year, and the incumbents being under the gun from a very angry electorate, it may or may not happen.

First of all, I'm a patient man. If it takes another year for full equality for all married couples regardless of gender, then so be it: look how long it took to lift the HIV travel ban.

But more importantly, I'm unclear on why it should take that long. Equal protection is written into the constitution.
 

B_VinylBoy

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By lumping all Republicans as being bigots and hateful, doesn't that by default also make you a bigot? Just asking :tongue:. If you look state by state you need a substantial Democratic vote to squash any gay marriage bills. If tens of thousands of Liberals didn't vote for prop 8 in CA it wouldn't have passed. Exit polls showed a vast majority of African Americans also voted for the amendment, and numbers show a vast majority of that demographic is in fact Democrat.

Yes, and that African American vote was insignificant compared to the total amount of people who actually voted in favor of Prop 8. If you count them all individually, they were responsible for roughly 8 million votes. Meanwhile, the bill received more than 50 million supporters. So where did the extra 42 Million votes come from?

Let's not add race to the subject, please. I've already broken down the numbers too many times on this board to dispel that rhetoric. As to imply that the bill wouldn't have passed if no black people voted in California.

Now don't get me wrong, obviously there are more religious nuts on the far right, but by no means do they hold a monopoly on the idea. Hell in the state of Mass you have a large population of Catholics, conservative Catholics but yet are Democratic when vote time comes.

Religion has its stronghold on everyone. It's a foundation that has centuries of footing and it manipulates the motives of people even when some claim that it doesn't.

Does the right stand on the soap box a lot more when it comes to gay marriage, yes, do they push that agenda more than the left, yes. But if the left really wanted gay marriage to pass, they could get it done. They are just as afraid to rock the boat as anyone else. Which to be frank, shocks me to death why anyone in this day and age is a Republican or Democrat.

No "one side" is going to get it done. Any bill left to the public to decide needs support from all sides of the political spectrum. That's because homophobia is the real problem and that knows no political bias.

"I don't know if you've noticed, but our two party system is a bowl of shit looking in the mirror at itself." - Lewis Black

And a third party system isn't going to happen anytime soon because all of the alternatives are doing nothing but adding more shit to the mix. What good is talking about the failures of the Democrats and the Republicans when these other parties can't even create a viable candidate with a platform that sways the American people? Also, why do many of them choose to run under the label of "Democrat" or "Republican" when it comes time to vote?

Gotta love Lewis Black, though... he's one of those comedians who is just allergic to stupidity and has no problems pointing it out. God bless him. :wink:
 

D_Bob_Crotchitch

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First of all, I'm a patient man. If it takes another year for full equality for all married couples regardless of gender, then so be it: look how long it took to lift the HIV travel ban.

But more importantly, I'm unclear on why it should take that long. Equal protection is written into the constitution.

Why did it take so long for the civil rights of all races and genders to be recognized? Just because something is written down somewhere doesn't mean it will swiftly come to pass.

It will probably have to be heard by the supreme court.
 

B_VinylBoy

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Bye bye DOMA. YAY!

Nice to see you liberal guys agreeing that gov't needs to stay out of our lives.

You're so missing the point. REALLY missing it by more than two equators.
This is not a message to twist into more socially poisonous, anti-government rhetoric. In fact, this is a step forward towards gay equality and the right to marriage which will never happen without government involvement.

So let's applaud the ruling... for the correct reasons.
 

conntom

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Gov't involvement where it didn't belong is why we got DOMA - aka "big" gov't getting too involved in what we do. Protect borders, maintain highways, etc and thank you very much. Don't worry about who I marry, who I do business with, who I hire, what kind of sex I have, what my orientation is if I serve in the military, etc etc....

So again. Glad to see you're seeing the light even if you are trying not to admit it.
 

B_VinylBoy

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Gov't involvement where it didn't belong is why we got DOMA - aka "big" gov't getting too involved in what we do. Protect borders, maintain highways, etc and thank you very much. Don't worry about who I marry, who I do business with, who I hire, what kind of sex I have, what my orientation is if I serve in the military, etc etc....

So again. Glad to see you're seeing the light even if you are trying not to admit it.

Don't put words in my mouth unless I can put a dick in yours, OK?
Your ideology fails miserably because we still need government to pass legislature that grants gays & lesbians the right to marry with all benefits granted to other married couples intact. Just having the right to marry means nothing unless it's viewed equally with other heterosexual marriages by the law. You think you're gonna be able to do that alone, without the government assisting you? Let me know how that works out for you, OK? :rolleyes:

So again, in a more direct and raw sense... glad to see you still don't know what the heck you're talking about. Don't bring your flawed & distorted beliefs to a battle that requires facts. I don't give a damn if you hate the government. Because in the end, without them you're assed out. Period.
 
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TomCat84

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Yes, and that African American vote was insignificant compared to the total amount of people who actually voted in favor of Prop 8. If you count them all individually, they were responsible for roughly 8 million votes. Meanwhile, the bill received more than 50 million supporters. So where did the extra 42 Million votes come from?

Um, California has under 40 million people TOTAL..........:confused:
 

B_VinylBoy

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Um, California has under 40 million people TOTAL..........:confused:

Typing quickly, I sourced the wrong numbers. However, if you want actual ones I will link to one of my previous posts when I argued this same topic with other people.

"If you want to look at it from a race demographic, you can focus on the 70% of black people who voted against the measure and put the blame on them. But Blacks only make 6% of the vote, which is barely around 600,000 people compared to the 10.2 Million who voted. That doesn't excuse the other 94% of other races, 80% of which are white, who basically split the vote in half." - source

Here are some other related posts I've made on the subject matter:
http://www.lpsg.org/108812-irony-black-voters-killed-civil-3.html#post1798845
http://www.lpsg.org/108812-irony-black-voters-killed-civil-5.html#post1799661
http://www.lpsg.org/135211-prop-8-upheld-by-ca-5.html#post2163102

Plus an excellent post from dreamer20:
http://www.lpsg.org/109434-keith-olbermann-on-prop-8-a.html#post1809434

And here's a link provided by Industrialsize that further dispels the distortion being played with the voting percentages - Daily Kos: Facts Belie the Scapegoating of Black People for Proposition 8



Prop 8 didn't pass just because some black people in California voted in favor of it. Racially scapegoating this issue didn't work back in 2008 and it won't work now. At least not on my watch.
 
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TomCat84

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Typing quickly, I sourced the wrong numbers. However, if you want actual ones I will link to one of my previous posts when I argued this same topic with other people.

"If you want to look at it from a race demographic, you can focus on the 70% of black people who voted against the measure and put the blame on them. But Blacks only make 6% of the vote, which is barely around 600,000 people compared to the 10.2 Million who voted. That doesn't excuse the other 94% of other races, 80% of which are white, who basically split the vote in half." - source

Here are some other related posts I've made on the subject matter:
http://www.lpsg.org/108812-irony-black-voters-killed-civil-3.html#post1798845
http://www.lpsg.org/108812-irony-black-voters-killed-civil-5.html#post1799661
http://www.lpsg.org/135211-prop-8-upheld-by-ca-5.html#post2163102

Plus an excellent post from dreamer20:
http://www.lpsg.org/109434-keith-olbermann-on-prop-8-a.html#post1809434

And here's a link provided by Industrialsize that further dispels the distortion being played with the voting percentages - Daily Kos: Facts Belie the Scapegoating of Black People for Proposition 8



Prop 8 didn't pass just because some black people in California voted in favor of it. Racially scapegoating this issue didn't work back in 2008 and it won't work now. At least not on my watch.

Look, the purpose of this thread wasn't to get into which racial group caused Prop 8 to pass- although it is undeniable that African Americans voted for the measure in far higher rates than whites or other minority groups- and proves the point that ANY racial group can be bigots.
 

B_VinylBoy

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Look, the purpose of this thread wasn't to get into which racial group caused Prop 8 to pass- although it is undeniable that African Americans voted for the measure in far higher rates than whites or other minority groups- and proves the point that ANY racial group can be bigots.

I agree to some degree...
But why not address Horaven for initially placing that distorted factoid into this thread? He's the one that started it... not me.
 

TomCat84

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I agree to some degree...
But why not address Horaven for trying to divert the subject? He's the one that started it and not me.

For the record, I'm much more angry with the Catholic and Mormon Churches, and think both should have their tax exempt statuses revoked for excessive participation in politics.
 

B_VinylBoy

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For the record, I'm much more angry with the Catholic and Mormon Churches, and think both should have their tax exempt statuses revoked for excessive participation in politics.

That's something we both agree on. :beerchug2:
Sadly, I doubt that would ever happen.