Federal Reserve has loaned out Trillions of $s

Discussion in 'Politics' started by helgaleena, Dec 1, 2010.

  1. helgaleena

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2006
    Messages:
    5,663
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Wisconsin USA
  2. DexterMorgan

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    441
    Albums:
    6
    Likes Received:
    780
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Coming to a theater near you
    Verified:
    Photo
    To me, No...they are totally unaccountable to anyone...they aren't ever "audited", or made to explain the intricate details of their actions (because they're secret...) This is not consistent with what constitutes a Democratic government, or consistent with the US constitution...
     
  3. sargon20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,389
    Likes Received:
    2,129
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlantis
    A. They are to be commended for recognizing what was at stake. Every country did the same thing because they too recognized the risk. A run on the bank spells economic collapse like the world has never seen.

    B. They were simply fixing what Congress should have never done when it deregulated banking during the 90's at the bequest of the banks. If you want accountability go to Congress.

    If you want to blame someone blame Congress. The Fed was simply the last stop before Depression Parte Deux. And you can still blame Congress because the 'reforms' are not anywhere near strong enough to prevent another collapse AND the new Republican House are hell bent on undoing the little reforms that passed this year.

    It's still Still the Best Congress Money Can Buy.

    Too big to fail means they are too big to exist and they still exist. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
     
  4. Speculator

    Speculator New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2010
    Messages:
    375
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kent, UK
    Your government and the central bank don't trust the American people to revive the economy so they've taken matters into their own hands and printed $trillions, most of which has ended up with institutional investors such as Goldman Sachs. Yay.

    It's a right royal stitch up. The bankers that caused the crash are now being paid handsomely to patch the system back up. It won't end well.
     
  5. sargon20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,389
    Likes Received:
    2,129
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlantis
    You have oversimplified the situation on a grand scale. Trillions of dollars disappeared thanks to the collapse. Those trillions have to be put back. The American consumer faced with their biggest asset, their homes, plunging in value and with wage growth trapped at 1-2% and credit card debt at records highs, savings at record lows they simply have no leeway to spend more. Export driven countries like Germany and China will one day have to actually start buying themselves or else it's all going to go bust.
     
  6. maxcok

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    7,392
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Elsewhere
    Well, it's not 'real money'.

    Yet somehow the rich still get richer, the poor get shafted, and the banker bandits make out like bandits.
     
  7. D_Myer_Dogasflees

    D_Myer_Dogasflees New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    3
    Thing is, all/most of the other nations are doing the same. If we are to stop and i think that we should, then it may need to be global. And stop bailing out irresponsible accountants. America and the world for that matter is undergoing an accountant crisis, we don't understand how to keep things safe and stable, this is the problem. Should be easy, just simply don't allow banks to lone to people who aren't able to pay back based on their current worth, and don't allow banks to gamble with the cash of their customers without the permission of those customers. Another idea, one i am not certain of, is if it would work if we simply eventuate to eliminate the possibility/legality to hold any dept.
     
  8. maxcok

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    7,392
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Elsewhere
    ^ Do you always type/talk/babble like that, or are you just drunk?
     
  9. D_Myer_Dogasflees

    D_Myer_Dogasflees New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    3
    Get the point forward. I don't have time.

    Is there anything you could object to in what i've said? Or is scorn your only method of reason? :confused:
     
  10. maxcok

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    7,392
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Elsewhere
    Reason? I would't even know how to object or reason with something so vapid and asinine. Besides the fact that you clearly don't have a clue about the most basic fundamentals of the financial system, the politics of deregulation, or the complicated reasons behind the current crisis; I'm not about to engage in a discussion of economics with someone who spells 'loan' as 'lone', and 'debt' as 'dept'.


    p.s. What the hell does this even mean?
    "eventuate"?? That doesn't even make any semantic sense. Not to mention, if you don't have debt (or dept), you basically don't have a financial system. So the whole world is 'cash and carry' I suppose. :rolleyes:
     
    #10 maxcok, Dec 2, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2010
  11. BiItalianBro

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,246
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicago & Louisville KY
  12. Hoss

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    12,050
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    398
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Eastern town
    The Government at work, another instance of robbing Peter to pay Paul, in this case with the added theft from Maximus Usimus. Let me translate that for our less erudite members, Paul (the big business) robs Peter(The Feds) but pretends it's a loan (it's theft since it will most likely never be paid & even if it is, there'll be a substantial loss of monetary value since interest will not have accrued), this equals theft from Maximus Usimus, the tax payers who in 1 way or another will have to pay the losses that the Feds let happen (Maximus Usimus, being as many taxpayers as possible doing the bailout, i.e., those with lesser incomes, as the wealthy will be exempt with new loopholes which will be created with them in mind).


    Legally it may never be listed as theft, if a regular citizen did similar, the'd land in the pokey.

    Can't say I'm in any way surprised.
     
  13. lucky8

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2006
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    17
    Gender:
    Male

    Trillions of dollars didn't really 'disappear,' they weren't really there in the first place. These financial institutions as a whole ended up creating around $3 of debt for every $1 in existence if I remember correctly. When their debts came due and millions of home owners didn't pay their mortgages, the feds had to step in since many mortgage backed securities are backed by the US government, and most others are at least semi-backed via Fannie and Freddie. The Fed is currently seeking inflation and a low dollar relative to currencies with comparable economies in efforts to increase exports and lower the value of the country's debt to foreign nations (China). I don't think we will see interest rates rise much until inflation really sets in. Then the Fed will begin raising the target rate to start reeling in all of this money
     
  14. B_KendraLesnick831

    B_KendraLesnick831 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2010
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    In a way, Thomas Jefferson's statements about banks being more dangerous than standing armies was correct, though I doubt he would have even been able to fully comprehend the machinations of what they would be fully capable of doing
     
  15. maxcok

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    7,392
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Elsewhere
    . . . in the absence of sensible regulations and responsible oversight, which is exactly what the people and the institutions who got us into this mess want to do away with - so they can keep draining the system and do it all over again until there's nothing left. Be afraid, be very afraid.
     
  16. sargon20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,389
    Likes Received:
    2,129
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlantis
    In reality is anything really 'there'? A property may appraise for x dollars but that figure is irrelevant if no one will pay x dollars for it. It was a bubble and it burst and then the house of cards collapsed. So the Fed really had no choice but to flood the market with liquidity and rescue the economy. It wasn't really just rescuing the banks but the entire economy.

    Those who hate the Fed and it's role just baffle me. It was Congress that unleashed the monster and it is Congress and the inattentive American voter who are to blame. For 50 years since the Great Depression banking was boring and we had no financial crises. Now just 10 years after all those 'pesky' regulations were undone we have the Great Recession.
     
  17. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2004
    Messages:
    7,535
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    110
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Mavs, NOR * CAL
    for one, they FORCED many banks to borrow the money... including cash rich banks, and wouldn't allow them to pay it back when they wanted to.

    but yeah... was Harley Davidson too big to fail?!
     
  18. FuzzyKen

    FuzzyKen New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,116
    Likes Received:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    There are many problems with this and their is no "good" solution. When the last "crash" hit in 1929 things were not propped up. At that time meeting the same criticism that has plagued the present administration FDR under advice starting trying to spend the nation out of the disaster which had not only made a mess of our nation, but had negative impacts on others as well because of all of the cross ties. At the same time some of the toughest legislation of the time was enacted to prevent a repeat. Over the many decades these laws were overturned and weakened by corporate interests with their own ideas. It was bound to happen again and in order to grab the buck and run many corporations financial and otherwise applied for "corporate welfare".

    Like many, my personal feelings lent themselves to wanting to see bankruptcies of many of the institutions which had acted with impunity in the fleecing of the American taxpayer.

    There have been many problems with this and many of the corporations which scammed the taxpayer had a saving "ace in the hole" and this was again not unlike the interdependence between many countries these same corporations had become interdependent on each other.

    Major Corporations borrow money just like the average citizen because they get incredible tax breaks for doing so. Corporations or businesses can profit tax wise from debt if they do it right. I don't like it, I disagree with it, but the laws for what a business or corporation can write against taxes on a profit and loss statement is far more creative than what "John Q. Citizen" can do.

    Consider that the income tax accounting firm in the U.S. "H&R Block" has been audited numerous times and not long ago they were in real trouble for not paying their fair share of "income tax" to the FEDS. An income tax accounting company not paying their taxes"? They got a slap on the wrist.

    General Motors, Chrysler and Ford as small examples had outstanding debt from many of the same banks the were victims of the housing crunch.

    In addition, "The Big Tree" also have their hands in many other things including military contracts. Bail out the banks, bail out two of the big three and if you don't you have a mess even bigger than what you'd have if you didn't.

    The common taxpayer received a totally disproportionate part of the blame for the present economic crunch. The reason is that again "John Q. Citizen" does not have a ton of special interest representatives sticking up for him. If you blame "John Q." for what Corporate America did how can he fight back?

    It is easy to blame everything on "sub-prime" and a great deal of other mumbo-jumbo simply because it covers a great deal of other things that happened at the same time.

    The crash was caused by a combination of corporate events and not really the average homeowner. Yes, there were some abuses, but there were many other factors not being counted.

    The economy started it's downward spiral actually at the end of the Clinton Administration. If those in the Bush Administration had recognized it and or cared it was not evident. Many decisions were made by many in that administration to fund things that should not have been funded. The funding started with our economy already on the edge of a cliff. The various war efforts and troop deployments have cost this nation dearly. We as a nation spent money we did not have. Dems and Conservatives alike are responsible, it is not one side or the other. Both sides went along with many ideas that we could not afford. It took the votes and approval of both sides to make this mess.

    Neither side is without blame in any of this. At the same time we have conservatives acting as if they would have been the heroes.

    What politicians depend on is that we Americans are "gifted" with some of the shortest memories around.

    Those out there representing only themselves for decades have not had anybody watching them. We have had the foxes minding "hen houses" on a level that exceeds stupidity. Max is absolutely correct, but I would go a step farther in that there was not only a total lack of oversight of the institutions involved including many not mentioned in news reports, but a total lack of government officials being bought off by the institutions in question.

    In all honesty I do not know how one can fix a system so full of greed, corruption, conflict of interest, and "back door deals".

    There are numerous cases like this, but the easiest example is a man by the name of Bob Nardelli. For those now knowing this infamous name he was at one time head (CEO)of General Electric. His leadership skills nearly bankrupted GE. When he was shown the door he was given a "severance package" with so many zeros on the back end that it boggled the mind. Not in the unemployment line for very long this failure who made a disaster of GE is hired for the same corporate position by Home Depot. He immediately starts a reign of terror that took a Fortune 500 Company and threw it on the skids. Atlanta fired his rear end before you could say "mint-julip", but that poor broke and impoverished man again walks away with a severance package that increased his personal fortune to a point of being an insult to every person ever having held a job.
    In all fairness I would have loved to have heard the Corporate Board Room discussions on the qualifications of Bob Nardelli as he was being endorsed to become CEO of Chrysler.

    " Yes, Gentlemen, we have a man to fill our chair." "He has qualifications that are beyond reproach!" He nearly bankrupted GE and did major damage to Home Depot, so we feel that he would be the best leader to take Chrysler into the future years. Oh, when they fired him he again collected an incredible severance package.

    I like this idea, we git incredible wealth and benefits from being fired over and over again!

    This is one of the many places where Government Oversight needs to have a hard look at private industry. Then at the same time we need to take a harder look at why this is even possible. I think that this is one that the American Taxpayer has a right to know. The really horrible truth is that Nardelli is but one of many Corporate CEO's that have done this.

    Banks, insurance companies, HMO's, Airlines and many private corporations have been on this bandwagon and have gotten away with it for years.
     
  19. helgaleena

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2006
    Messages:
    5,663
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Wisconsin USA
    It's called 'pork barrel politics' and it's everywhere. The procurers are called lobbyists instead of pimps or hustlers.
     
  20. B_talltpaguy

    B_talltpaguy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,394
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
Draft saved Draft deleted