FEMALE Circumcision - - -

Discussion in 'Women's Issues' started by benderten2001, Jun 28, 2007.

  1. benderten2001

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    I just noticed in worldwide headlines that Egypt has now outlawed all female circumcision (removal of the clitoris). 'Seems a twelve year old girl died from the procedure recently which prompted the Egyptian government mandate there.

    I've often heard of "female circumcision" but perhaps others (especially us guys) never knew all that much about it. Or (sadly) didn't think all that much about it. (And, I AM sorry, ladies! )

    Actually, this subject as presented in the headlines today really jarred me into realizing such mutilation in women is horrendous!

    I don't understand the rationale in even considering removing the clitoris.....whatever the reason (which one has to presume must be for (initially) religious reasons, perhaps (?) . There is no Christian doctrine (to my knowledge) for women to undergo such a procedurre.

    Male circumcision has proven to be controversial / debatable of course, especially around here, but FEMALE circumcision is really bizarre.

    Could we discuss it just a bit?
     
  2. dolfette

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    they remove the inner lips too, so that she heals up into a tiny hole...causes difficulty during sex and serious problems in childbirth {even deaths}

    it's done because if you remove pleasure they're less likely to stray.

    would you have an affair if sex was nothing but pain?
     
  3. dolfette

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  4. juz4fun

    juz4fun New Member

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    it's sick to me.
     
  5. saladin

    saladin New Member

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    This world is pretty screwed-up.
     
  6. burns1de

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    I saw a documentary once on TV that had footage of a female circumcision "procedure" (if you can call it that, it was more like a hatchet-job) done on a teenage girl. I'm extremely not squeamish, but this was almost too much to watch. Just like male circumcision, that practice is barbaric and it is done for all the wrong reasons (not that there is any good reasons to do this). It's about time Egypt decided to join the rest of the civilized world by outlawing this.
     
  7. SteveHd

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    The International Coalition for Genital Integrity has taken the WHO classifications of FGM and added MGM to produce what they call HGM Classifications. See: ICGI - Genital Integrity » HGM Classification ... they compare and contrast the three classifications.

    There is too much genital cutting on infants and minors. I want all non-therapeutic cutting on minors stopped for all genders including intersexed. Adults can do whatever they want to themselves.

    We're in the Third Millennium. It's time to act accordingly.
     
  8. B_Trues

    B_Trues New Member

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    ALL CIRCUMSISION IS HORRIFICLY SAD!

    According to this site, Islam supports it:
    http://www.themuslimwoman.com/hygiene/femalecircumcision.htm

    BBC NEWS | Health | Medical notes | Female genital mutilation
    :sick: :(
    Should male and female circumcision under the age of 18 not be made illegal? i THINK SO.


    Personally, I don't respect this, neither do i respect religion.
    not to change the subject
     
  9. DC_DEEP

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    I wonder why the practice is called "female circumcision," when that is clearly NOT descriptive of the procedure. Clitorectomy would be more accurate.

    However, with that said, I think our kind, gentle US citizens should apply the same rationale to western and eastern practices. If infant genital modifications are wrong for one gender or one society, then all infant genital modifications are wrong. If it's ok for one group, it's ok for all groups.
     
  10. dolfette

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    not quite the same thing though...well it would be the same as cutting off the entire dick!

    but it's vile to inflict on either gender.
     
  11. SteveHd

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    A clitoridectomy might be the same as cutting off the entire dick but there are less severe forms of FGM.
    That's so obvious to me but it gets debated ad infinitum in the circ. threads.
     
  12. SpoiledPrincess

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    Calling this female circumcision trivialises it, there are three commonly used variants of female genital mutilation, the most severe of which consists of excision of the clitoris, labia minora and sewing the labia majora together, while I don't condone male circumcision there are instances where it is necessary medically, but under normal circumstances male circumcision doesn't affect the males ability to have a normal sex life while female genital mutilation means the woman is unable to enjoy her sex life and sex is often accompanied by pain, during childbirth she has to be cut open and then her infibulation restored as it is unable to be cosmetically repaired to anything approaching a normal vagina, and female genital mutilation often produces death, organ damage, incontinence or fistulas.
     
  13. ETA123

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    Unfortunately, that site does not tell the whole truth. The practice is not a requirement of Islam. I'll refer you to:

    IslamonLine.net

    "When we come to the issue of “Female circumcision”, however, the mater is quite different. There is nothing in the sources, either the Qur’an or the Sunnah, to suggest that it is a PRESCRIBED ritual of initiation for women in Islam.

    While one finds a number of traditions from the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, which clearly indicates that he ordered pagan males who converted to undergo circumcision, it is not stated anywhere that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, ordered any woman who entered Islam to undergo this practice.

    Because there is no absolute proof from the sources of Islam prescribing female circumcision, the vast majority of scholars do not include it in the OBLIGATORY rituals of Islam.

    It is common knowledge in Islam that if the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, had wanted female circumcision to be an integral aspect of religious practice in Islam the same way that male circumcision is, he would have said so clearly. Since he did not do so, we can safely assume it is not a prescribed ritual of Islam.""

    The hadith quote in the example you cite is not even confirmed as authentic.

    It's worth noting that the practice of FGM (female genital mutilation) predates both Islam and Christianity, and existed centuries before either came into being.

    I would suggest reading the following and it's reference material: Female genital cutting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The treatment of women in Islam (in many places, not all) is bad enough without misrepresenting the truth. The truth is that in most Islamic nations, FGM is not practiced, and that the majority of Islamic scholars do not believe it is a requirement of the faith.

    Nope, I'm not a Muslim, just someone who has read a lot on the subject. I used to work for a company that imported traditional African drums and other instruments, the first time I learned of FGM was during a discussion of traditional rythms played for various celebrations, one of which involved a sort of coming of age celebration for both male and female children, which was followed by the "circumcision" of each. These rituals and dances were practiced by the Mande speaking tribes (who became the original Ghana empire, not to be confused with the present day Ghana) that controlled much if not all of North Western Africa before the influx of Islamic people.

    The practice predates Islam, and is not, according to most a requirement of Islam.

    We can all agree that FGM needs to be ended completely without false insinuations that it is an Islamic practice instead of a regional and cultural one.
     
  14. IntoxicatingToxin

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    Those poor women! I'm glad they finally outlawed it... so sad! And painful!
     
  15. stretcher74

    stretcher74 New Member

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    That's right. It's not Islam. It's never Islam. Even if you think this culture of mutilation might be sustained by a evil cult that treats women as dirt, you're thinking wrong.

    Islam is peace and joy and wonderfulness and rainbows that end in gum-drop rivers where children laugh and sing and play.
     
  16. dolfette

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    tribes in africa were doing this centuries before islam!

    it's the cultures, not the gods.
     
  17. stretcher74

    stretcher74 New Member

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    but why are these tribal customs still accepted as moral by the people/culture in these areas ? because the religion is a tribal and cruel one.

    I mean, that's what someone might say, if they didn't understand how peachy-keen, splendid and swell Islam is ! Swell !
     
  18. ETA123

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    You didn't actually read a fucking thing I posted did you?

    Didn't think so.

    EDUCATE yourself, then come back and engage in a discussion once you actually have some miniscule inkling of what you're talking about.

    Until then, you're simply perpetuating inaccurate stereotypes.

    Little hint for you - there are non-Islamic areas in West Africa where the practice is commonplace with no Islamic influence whatsoever. There are places in India that are not Muslim where this is practiced. The practice does NOT happen in most Muslim nations. That is FACT.

    Hell, even the NHO recognizes simple facts like:

    WHO | Female genital mutilation

    "The reasons given by families for having FGM performed include:
    • psychosexual reasons: reduction or elimination of the sensitive tissue of the outer genitalia, particularly the clitoris, in order to attenuate sexual desire in the female, maintain chastity and virginity before marriage and fidelity during marriage, and increase male sexual pleasure;
    • sociological reasons: identification with the cultural heritage, initiation of girls into womanhood, social integration and the maintenance of social cohesion;
    • hygiene and aesthetic reasons: the external female genitalia are considered dirty and unsightly and are to be removed to promote hygiene and provide aesthetic appeal;
    • myths: enhancement of fertility and promotion of child survival;
    • religious reasons: Some Muslim communities, however, practise FGM in the belief that it is demanded by the Islamic faith. The practice, however, predates Islam."
    Notice that does not say ALL Muslims. It also points out the FACT that it predates Islam.
     
  19. SteveHd

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    Likewise male circumcision predates Islam and Judaism. It likewise is done for culture, not the Gods.
     
  20. ETA123

    ETA123 Member

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    Well, that isn't quite accurate. Most Islamic scholars would tell you that the Koran does not specifically require so-called female circumicision, however, the religious mandates of both Islam and Judaism specifically require that males be circumcised.

    Edit: I should point out that although both religions mandate male circumcision does not mean that I personally think it is the correct or necessary thing to do. I do NOT think that circumcising a male child is anywhere near as awful as what is done to females, but I also believe that there have been a LOT of misreprentations made to parents as to the necessity of circumicision for male children (especially in the US).
     
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