Feminists

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Dr. Dilznick, Nov 6, 2005.

  1. Dr. Dilznick

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,662
    Likes Received:
    1
    Do you support them? What is your opinion of them?
     
  2. AMikkell

    AMikkell New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Upstate New York
    I suppose that would depend entirely on what you mean by 'feminist'. That term has been used to describe a number of people.
     
  3. SUMYUNGUY

    SUMYUNGUY New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    Really no different than a racist or bigot.
     
  4. GoneA

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    5,176
    Likes Received:
    1
    love the: o Y o
     
  5. rawbone8

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    2,864
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    do you means capital "F" feminists as in organised political groups? or anybody who professes a belief in the general goals of feminism?

    as with labour unions and gay rights activists feminists have been an important force in changing the status quo: some wrongs have been righted (worthy causes such as getting equal rights)


    but like many movements they have far too much interest in pursuing irrelevant battles, demonizing their enemies (men) and making victimization into an artform
     
  6. Love-it

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,884
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Northern California
    I support women.
     
  7. GottaBigOne

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,020
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    New York
    I support everybodies rights.
     
  8. DC_DEEP

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    9,029
    Likes Received:
    12
    If you mean females who want rights equal to those of men, I support them 100%. If you mean the abrasive, obnoxious "womyn" who hate men, want to eliminate/change all words in the English language that contain the letter sequences "man" and "men", I think they are in desperate need of some psychotropic medication.

    I try to be polite, and if I am going through a door, with someone right behind me, I will hold the door - so that it does not slam in their face. If someone holds a door for me, I simply say "thank you." But I had an experience where a womyn shrieked and cursed at me for holding the door as she approached.

    I have also known some who want to have the best of both worlds, and use their gender to get whatever they can from whomever they can. Equal pay is great, but I think it requires equal work. I have had women in the workplace be very vocal one moment about the equal pay issue, then turn around and ask me to lift a heavy box for them. It just don't work that way, at least not for me. If a woman is an excellent golfer, and wants to compete with the men, that's fine with me - but don't allow her to use a woman's (shorter) tee. I think that was one of the issues in the news some time back. Equal is great, but "equal only when it is convenient" is a horrible idea.
     
  9. Dr. Dilznick

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,662
    Likes Received:
    1
    Everyone, not most, but just about 100% minus some tiny epsilon of people that run businesses are way, WAYYY more concerned about their bottom line and how much they are making than showing preferential treatment to men. If you doubt this is true then ask yourself again why it is people work in the first place (hint: $). If there is a way to maximize how much money they can make by hiring cheaper but equally efficient females not only will 1 or 2 employers try it but tons will. Most will. This will either result in competing companies having to lower the wages they pay to their more predominantly male work force, or pay women higher wages, forcing an eventual equilibrium in pay.

    Of course, this is true only if there are just as many women that are truly capable of performing on the same level as men in that field on average.
     
  10. absinthium

    absinthium New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2005
    Messages:
    431
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Dickcuntsburg, USAtown
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DC_DEEP &#064; Nov 7 2005, 10&#58;23 AM) [post=358888]Quoted post[/post]</div><div class='quotemain'>
    If you mean females who want rights equal to those of men, I support them 100%. If you mean the abrasive, obnoxious "womyn" who hate men, want to eliminate/change all words in the English language that contain the letter sequences "man" and "men", I think they are in desperate need of some psychotropic medication.
    [/b][/quote]

    I would settle for a gag for all of them. And I would make it illegal for them to ever touch a guitar.

    Very little is more annoying to me than female folk singers that claim to be feminists, and the equal to any man, that write really shitty little unplugged pop songs about relationships. Part of me wants to believe that they&#39;re only doing it to appeal to a certain demographic, making money by hawking the word "feminist," since they have no talent. Even though that&#39;s pretty disgusting in and of itself, it&#39;s better than thinking they take that kind of idiotic cause, and themselves, seriously. The problem is so many of their fans do, and don&#39;t realize their feminist hero is little more than an untalented Lilith Fair whore writing shitty little unplugged pop songs about relationships.

    Sigh. People.
     
  11. DC_DEEP

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    9,029
    Likes Received:
    12
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(absinthium &#064; Nov 7 2005, 12&#58;10 PM) [post=358919]Quoted post[/post]</div><div class='quotemain'>
    Part of me wants to believe that they&#39;re only doing it to appeal to a certain demographic, making money by hawking the word "feminist," since they have no talent. Even though that&#39;s pretty disgusting in and of itself, it&#39;s better than thinking they take that kind of idiotic cause, and themselves, seriously.
    ...
    Sigh. People.
    [/b][/quote]
    I&#39;m sighing right along with you, absinthium. Those of us with honest, socially-aware concerns are undermined by the ones who want absurd stretches of "political correctness" to assuage their own guilt. Equal pay for equal work, period. Equal recognition for equal talent. All the attempts at "equalization" through quotas (gender or racial, it doesn&#39;t matter) are doing more harm than good. If a woman wants to marry and have babies and be a stay-at-home mom, fine. If she wants to be a research chemist or a construction worker, fine... as long as she is in the job because of her qualifications, not because "we need more women in the sciences."

    I agree that there are some impediments to women in the business world, especially as you go up the corporate ladder. I read an article some time back complaining that "X percent of the population is female, but only Y percent are corporation presidents." Well, it didn&#39;t even seem to take into account that not every woman aspires to be president of any given company. Hell, I wouldn&#39;t want the job of most CEOs - I would rather do the work (well) than make the decisions. If I were in charge of a business, though, when it came to hiring and firing, I would be making certain that people were hired, retained, and promoted based on their capabilities, not their skin color or the shape of their genitals.

    Sigh. People....
     
  12. curiouscat9

    curiouscat9 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Colorado
    "I would settle for a gag for all of them. And I would make it illegal for them to ever touch a guitar."
    --absinthium

    LOL "spit out drink" LOL again&#33;

    I think legal registration and a three-day waiting period for all musical equipment should be enforced for women angry with men.

    Though I consider myself a feminist, I am not a feminist-Nazi. Much like the other women on this board, I love men and I am interested in their concerns. I expect my son to be respectful of women, but I also have talked to him about how to navigate around women that are users, high-maintenance fluff, and superficial sluts. My husband and I both get angry that the only people it is still okay to make fun of in advertisement and other media are people who are fat and men (mostly white men), but really in many ways all men. Who hasn’t seen men depicted as bumbling around trying to make dinner or showing how inadequate they are at some task that (supposedly) comes easy for a woman?

    I happened to go to a college for women and I can assure LPSG members, ranting against men is not tolerated by the other students or the faculty. Outside of its most radical time, feminism today falls more in line with civil rights issues for anyone in need of them. Generally, people who support family, gay and lesbian, and women’s issues tend to team together for greater political power and visibility. But true feminists recognize many men&#39;s issues as theirs too.

    In answer to the original question, as I understand feminism, I do support them and I am one.
     
  13. dlcs

    dlcs New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Sector ZZ9, Plural Z Alpha
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DC_DEEP &#064; Nov 7 2005, 08&#58;23 AM) [post=358888]Quoted post[/post]</div><div class='quotemain'>
    If you mean females who want rights equal to those of men, I support them 100%. If you mean the abrasive, obnoxious "womyn" who hate men, want to eliminate/change all words in the English language that contain the letter sequences "man" and "men", I think they are in desperate need of some psychotropic medication.
    [/b][/quote]
    J is taking a feminist history class (required, poor guy) and his professor is one of the "womyn" types. I keep telling him he needs to do things to really mess with her head, like bring in "The Handmaid&#39;s Tale" and read the Ceremony passages aloud, or sit in the back singing "I Am Woman" in the most off-key way he can manage.

    Honestly, it&#39;s the hard-cores that make it difficult for the rest of us who just want to live our lives and be respected for who we are, not given to because we&#39;ve got boobs. For every womyn who takes offense at having a door held for her, there are five women who will thank you muchly.
     
  14. D_Martin van Burden

    D_Martin van Burden Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2002
    Messages:
    3,365
    Likes Received:
    6
    Precisely -- I think it&#39;s hard to be a feminist, let alone really look into some of their ideals, theories, and some good solid literature of practice because, first and foremost, this idea of "feminist" is practically buried in this man-hating, misanthropic, hairy legs, foo-foo, peasant girl skirt, don&#39;t use deodorant, etc. image.

    I&#39;m a feminist. At least, I felt really comfortable taking that label on for myself when I was in undergraduate school. I&#39;ve (obviously) slacked behind in my readings, but I&#39;m interested in topics such as reproductive and bodily rights, gender roles and submission, rigid roles, expressions of love and companionship, resilience, etc. And I think in my line of word some part of you almost has to be a feminist... whether you use that word or another to describe increasing sensitivity to issues of race, gender, culture, etc.

    Then again, I see a lot of peole hating on others for ideas they either don&#39;t understand or appreciate. Not that it&#39;s anyone&#39;s business to tell you how to think, but -- Golden Rule -- give the womyn room to let them say what they want. Nobody is forcing you to agree.
     
  15. Matthew

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    8,374
    Likes Received:
    158
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    It seems like some people are almost apologetic about saying they&#39;re feminist. As if they somehow have to distance themselves from "those nasty extreme people over there" in order to claim the term.

    I support feminism in a world that&#39;s still largely male-dominated.
     
  16. madame_zora

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    10,252
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Ohio
    I support equality for everyone who is willing to BE equal. Does that make me a feminist? Historically, yes. Apparently I'm also gay, Asian, Latino and Black because I support equality for them too. I get frustrated with the fact that supporting any movement that isn't white/male centric automatically implies membership in some "fringe" movement.

    No, I don't see *myself* as a feminist, but I am a Humanist. And Ani DiFranco needs to die. That is all.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted