Fight for her or let it go?

[PatriotSam]

I've been using match.com and eharmony.com for the last year to try and find women. This is due to the fact that I’m self employed and the area that I immediately live in has no great stock of younger, desirable and/or available women ... but I can't physically move due to my prime location for my business and my house that I recently bought.

While eharmony.com is a terrible service in my area, match.com has actually been working great! I've been on probably 20 dates in the last 3 months and I can't honestly say that I’ve had a single bad experience with the whole process.

Last week I met a match that I was really excited about meeting, she seemed to have it together and she seemed to have an attitude that really worked well with my own. After the first date I knew that I liked her ... I knew that in the first 15 minutes of sitting down and talking to her ... and after a few hours together we parted ways and setup a second date a few days later.

On our second date we met at her house and then hopped in her car to go meet up with some of her friends. While she was driving she asked me how many long term relationships I had in the past. I told her that I had essentially not had any before and she had this severely adverse reaction, saying "that raises all sorts of red flags". She then immediately asked if I had sex before and I replied "yes" ... which was a true answer, but didn’t go into the fact that my sexual history was rather limited as well. I sort of dropped the subject after that because she had such an adverse reaction to my response that it freaked me out as to why she was that concerned about my past on the second date.

Other than that little episode, our second date seemed to go really well, we met up with her friends, had fun and she gave me a whole bunch of signs that lead me to believe she liked me.

The first sign was the fact that she trusted me enough to have me meet her at her house, which I imagine you would not do if you didn’t like the guy you met 2 days before. The second sign was that she told me in the bar that she had "the most realistic sexual dream she's had in a long time" last night (which happened to be the night after she met me) and then cut herself off half way through saying "It's been that long since I’ve had sex!" The third sign was that she told me she didn’t want to get wild and crazy with her friends while I was there because she didn’t want to embarrass herself in front of me.

Not only that but the whole night we were looking at each other, she kept grabbing my arm and rubbing my back and we kept nudging and poking at each other for fun.

Then on Easter morning I text message her to wish her a happy Easter and left her a little message asking if she wanted to go check out an art gallery later in the week. She text messaged me back saying that she "didn’t think I was in a place to have a serious relationship" and that's what she was looking for. Clearly she’s trying to brush me off but why would things to so seemingly well for the first two dates and then suddenly she wants to cut it off?

Honestly I’m kind of hurt by this ... which is actually a good thing because it tells me that I genuinely like her. (Never had this reaction to any of the previous 20 match.com dates.) I’m also rather confused because her comment was so non specific!

I want call her and talk about it a little more to find out exactly what the problem is. If she says that I don’t have enough money, or I’m ugly, or I smell bad ... ok, I can deal with that reason. But if she says "you don’t have enough relationship experience" ... I can NOT deal with that response because it's total bull! In my opinion, whether or not you have a long history of relationships has nothing to do with how well something is going to work with the person standing right in front of you. If you’re attracted to someone, have feelings for them and you respect them, you pursue the relationship … and that’s it … her history means nothing to me (unless it’s really screwed up) … I like her and that’s all I need to know to want to learn more about her.

I’m going to call her today and try to get at least a little more explanation out of her, if I can I’m going to try to smooth out the wrinkles and see if we can keep getting to know each other because I truly do like her.

Part of me what’s to fight to get the girl … and another part of me says to just walk away because I’ve only had 2 dates with her and I already had another match.com date setup for this coming week … but then the other part says “what if she’s just confused herself” and that I like her enough to put more effort into this.

I don’t know! Please add any comments that may help me here as I’m a little confused by all this?

 

[Gillette]

You don't mention your age. If you're 50 and never had a long term relationship that's certainly different than if you're 25. Also what is the definition of 'long term'? Several months? Several years?

Try to understand where she's coming from in that not having a history of long term relationships might mean that you don't commit yourself deeply, that you'll cut and run at the first sign of problems or that you just don't want a long term thing. All valid concerns. If she knows that you understand her concerns and that your intention is to develop something lasting it will help her to relax those fears.

Long term relationships don't have to just mean romantic ones. Friends you've known since grade school and stood by through thick and thin count as well, although not in quite the sense she means. All the same providing emotional support for friends or helping take on their burdens is to your credit.

I think the most important thing is to let her know that you do feel a connection with her that you feel is worth exploring, where with others that feeling just wasn't there. You may not have had a long term romantic relationship before but you had never taken a step before you're first one either and I'm sure you're walking fine now.

At any rate, communicating your interest in her and addressing her concerns will show her you're willing to extend the effort when things aren't rosy. Shrugging her off and moving on to the next girl will just validate her concerns.

Is long term what you're looking for? If so, go for it.

Good luck.

 

[Lex]

Great advice Gillette. In fact, I would hold that long term friendships are more indicative of someone's ability to be in the successful long term romantic relationship (which should be built upon the foundation of a strong friendship in the first place).

 

[D_Amyntas Lillydong]

first of all congratulations with your success on match.com. second i would try to get an answer myself. but if you can't get one, as in no response, move on. just a side note being that we may want things more that we know we can't have. and if we do finally get them, the fun was in the chase.

 

[D_Neeson Niceone]

Some people might disagree with this, but it's the second date and it's far too soon to be answering serious questions like that. Build a little mystery and playfully skip around that one. When you say "I've not had any serious relationships" you put the thought in her head "no girl has been willing to invest in this guy, so why should I?".

Don't call her today. You're already looking weak to her - calling her right away to "smooth it over" is just going to strike her as needy. Give it a few days or maybe even a week. Let your head get clear and go on a date with another woman too. Then call her, text her, etc and do/say something that reminds her of how fun you are and the good time she had with you rather than try to explain your past relationships or lack thereof to her.

A lot of times when a guy says "fighting for a girl", what he really means is trying to qualify himself to her. Women hate that. Be a man. You don't have to reveal everything. You also don't need to apologize for who you are.

 

[Skull Mason]

I kind of agree with rawrs. But the only thing I think she is doing is just playing a little game. "ohh you arent a relationship person so I won't work for you...[work for me and tell me that I'm different and relationship material]", or "ohhh you don't like petite white chicks so I'm not pretty enough for you...[tell me I am]" etc etc.

It is just a game, I wouldn't take it serious and I wouldn't take it personal.

And of course, the obvious reply would be, "nooo I just haven't met the right girl to make me want to be in a relationship with her, I'm very picky. But you have all the qualities I look for in a girl so this is uncharted territory for me. And if you really want, I can hook you up with skull mason he will put that ass to sleep."

 

[Drifterwood]

There's a funny thing about people who are looking for the great relationship but actually have never experienced it or been part of one themselves. They have all these rules and markers - complete shite imo. Forget her and move on - people with tick lists are boring and ultimately very unsatisfying. Just my POV.

 

[D_Neeson Niceone]

I kind of agree with rawrs. But the only thing I think she is doing is just playing a little game. "ohh you arent a relationship person so I won't work for you...[work for me and tell me that I'm different and relationship material]", or "ohhh you don't like petite white chicks so I'm not pretty enough for you...[tell me I am]" etc etc.

It is just a game, I wouldn't take it serious and I wouldn't take it personal.

And of course, the obvious reply would be, "nooo I just haven't met the right girl to make me want to be in a relationship with her, I'm very picky. But you have all the qualities I look for in a girl so this is uncharted territory for me. And if you really want, I can hook you up with skull mason he will put that ass to sleep."

Right, except don't play the game with them. Make her qualify to you - not the other way around.

 

[Gillette]

If this is purely a female mind game could any of you enlightened gents explain why men have asked the same question of me on the second date or earlier?

Might be worth considering the source on these replies. At least one of the "it's a game" respondants above is not of a mind to enter into a long term relationship whereas at least one of the respondants encouraging communication is.

You needn't grovel, flatter or present you life history for her dissection but if you like her well enough that you'd like to see where it could lead then that's all you need to say.

 

[Wish-4-8]

Keep in mind you have the upperhand in the sense that it seems things have gone well. She probably already told her friends about you and since you met them, they put more bad ideas in her head. Women are evil like that to each other.

I would just go on the second date and continue on. Have her call you. Dont chase at this point. It will make her wonder why and she will then chase. When she does call and asks why you havent, say some BS like, "I got the sense you were uncomfortable with the situation so I wanted to give you some space."
Then more BS, "But I am glad you called. Wanna go do something?"
And if the answer is "No" or she never calls (which I doubt since things went well), you lost nothing and are par for the course.

 

[Skull Mason]

If this is purely a female mind game could any of you enlightened gents explain why men have asked the same question of me on the second date or earlier?

Who said it was purely a female thing? Guys play games too, but in the case of the OP, it seems as if it is la femme nikita who is playing the game.

I would be willing to bet the men who asked you those same questions on the second date were either insecure, or looking for validation, which is really the same thing as insecure.

 

[Gillette]

I would be willing to bet the men who asked you those same questions on the second date were either insecure, or looking for validation, which is really the same thing as insecure.

I'm not sure I agree with that. If you're looking for something, like, say, a long term relationship it makes sense to be curious about a prospective partners history in that regard. It's not a surefire indication one way or the other but it can give an inkling into the other's mindset.

Had he answered along the lines of he hadn't been interested in a relationship before but he was looking for one now (he wouldn't have needed to specify her) that would have been answer enough. But he didn't say that was what he wanted now, not even here in his OP. He just told her no, leaving her to draw her own conclusions. This might have been a good time to elaborate, just a tad.

From her side, she may have been burned before. The text could well be a genuine dear john out of caution. He didn't say he was looking for the same thing she's looking for so she's saying 'no thanks'. He already validated her in asking her to the art show. 'No thanks', isn't seeking more. No means no, remember.

I'm looking at some of the responses here and I'm seeing men advising 'don't call today, date someone else then call the first chick in about a week', 'make her qualify to you', (she did qualify, she qualified that she's looking for a relationship) and my favorite who doesn't seem to have grasped that she refused the offer of a third date.

Keep in mind you have the upperhand in the sense that it seems things have gone well. She probably already told her friends about you and since you met them, they put more bad ideas in her head. Women are evil like that to each other.

I would just go on the second date and continue on. Have her call you. Dont chase at this point. It will make her wonder why and she will then chase. When she does call and asks why you havent, say some BS like, "I got the sense you were uncomfortable with the situation so I wanted to give you some space."
Then more BS, "But I am glad you called. Wanna go do something?"
And if the answer is "No" or she never calls (which I doubt since things went well), you lost nothing and are par for the course.

Charming.
Yup, it's women who play games.
Given the above shit it's not difficult to imagine why she'd shy off.

Seriously, he didn't elaborate that he wants a relationship with anyone right now (if he does) and she didn't extend the question to ask if he was looking for one despite not having them in the past.

I read this as her having drawn a conclusion and made a decision. If the conclusion is wrong and he wants to correct it waiting a week isn't going to help.

 

[morsecode]

ugh, why is it so fucking hard?

 

[Wish-4-8]

"Charming.
Yup, it's women who play games.
Given the above shit it's not difficult to imagine why she'd shy off.

Seriously, he didn't elaborate that he wants a relationship with anyone right now (if he does) and she didn't extend the question to ask if he was looking for one despite not having them in the past.

I read this as her having drawn a conclusion and made a decision. If the conclusion is wrong and he wants to correct it waiting a week isn't going to help."

Courtship is a game, a dance; unfortuantly.
I think we both agree that he should not call back. It really is up to her in this case.
The upperhand refers to who is chasing who. Always be the one being chased. If she did enjoy herself, then she has to understand she let this go. And over what? A red flag. She is the one being shallow,(if she truly enjoyed herself) but that is her right. I do not judge her for that.
Plus, we are only getting one perspective here, the guys. There are two sides to every story.

 

[Gillette]

The upperhand refers to who is chasing who. Always be the one being chased.

I got that. Games. The BS emphasized that nicely.

If the OP follows your advice then she made the right decision calling it quits. Who wants BS in a relationship?

 

[Wish-4-8]

Because courtship is a game, people BS back and forth.
I think her assumptions are BS. I think its BS for that to be the deal breaker.
Relationships become meaningful when both parties get past the BS. Till then, you fight fire with fire. Again, unfortuantly.

And if you dont think you have ever been BS-ed during the courtship phase, then that guy is really good at making you believe it.

 

[Skull Mason]

word, it is the mating dance of the bird of paradise.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS1tEnfkk6M

 

[Drifterwood]

I think that it as important to be told why a question is going to mean something to someone as a then qualified response might be.

I don't think that you will learn much from someone if you just have a list of what become closed questions because you are not communicating their significance. This is why job interviews only give a 2% better success rate than picking a candidate at random.

FWIW, if someone asks you closed questions to an unstated agenda, I would advise that you answer with questions until that person has the good manners to tell you why they are asking the question and what their terms of reference are.

Neither of the people in the OP is likely to find a long term partner within the terms of their dating "game" imo, because neither of them is actually communicating. I stick to my previous opinion of not fighting for her.

 

[nudeyorker]

I really can't give any better advice than you have already been given here, however if you are going to lose sleep over this and continue to think about it a year from now...I think you owe it to yourself to communicate with her and explain that just because you do not have a history of failed relationships to bring to the table does not make you exempt to having a lasting solid relationship. I think she's playing games with you and betting on your inexperience as leverage for her game. I say move on. But get some closure first in saying that her inability to forge a relationship with her vast experience is perhaps a liability that you can't accept.
I was single for a long time and people always asked me why I was not in a relationship...my answer "I have standards and would rather be single than with the wrong person."

 

[hud01]

Personally I say move on there is nothing to see here. If she is really cares about that after two dates then it raises red flags for you.