Fit to Command - What's Your Opinion?

RideRocket

Sexy Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Posts
3,009
Media
0
Likes
49
Points
268
Location
Arlington, VA, USA
Sexuality
80% Straight, 20% Gay
Gender
Male
ClaireTalon said:
I wonder that nobody has yet come up with the possible problem of the military placing a very dependent officer into the President's office, hoping to bargain from his decisions. To avoid such an unpleasant mishap, as well as someone with token service, my suggestion would be having the candidate's military career examined by an ad-hoc committee of officers, who could then express a positive/negative recommendation for the candidate. They should decide along such criterions as combat experience, awards, evaluation reports, eventual reprimands etc. Necessarily these officers would have to be elected and nominated anew with every election, and be ruled out for all further elections after their participation.

Unfortunately, the reason this will never work is that it will be immediately corrupted by those with a political agenda. For example, John Kerry's service in Vietnam is commendable. However, his service (while still in the military!) after returning and joining the anti-war movement is not.

I don't mean this in terms of anti-war = bad, but while he was testifying before Congress and 'secretly' meeting the enemy (Vietnamese delegations), he was still in the military, and thus still had certain rules and regulations to abide by. If such a committee were to exist to review his potential for candidacy, what would they find? As of right now, they would find nothing because his records have been sealed. Why have they been sealed? Kerry certainly won't tell us, but many believe he was given a dishonorable discharge because of his actions upon returning from Vietnam.

Anyway, not a Kerry-bashing, just an example of why this type of committee wouldn't work.
 

DanTheMan

Just Browsing
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Posts
37
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
226
Location
D.C.
Sexuality
80% Straight, 20% Gay
Gender
Male
Agreed 100%. I would never want it to be law that you must have military svc...let the ppl's voice carry.
 

RideRocket

Sexy Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Posts
3,009
Media
0
Likes
49
Points
268
Location
Arlington, VA, USA
Sexuality
80% Straight, 20% Gay
Gender
Male
curious n str8 said:
I am just curious...those of you on the site that have been in the military do you think that your training has been a hinderace or a blessing ? has it helped you become a better person in terms of ethics, being a person of your word, probem solving etc ?:feedback:

I think my military training has been a blessing. Besides doing something I love, I appreciate the leadership skills it has given me. I've worked in the civilian sector as well, so I've seen both sides of the fence. While the military tends to be authoritative, it does get things done. If you look at a lot of corporate training programs, they borrow heavily from the military's leadership development programs.

A pitfall I've experienced in the military though is many 'leaders' aren't good communicators or listeners. On the other hand, my biggest pet peeve about being in the civilian sectors is that too often it was decision-making by committee - everybody had to put in their two cents, and everybody felt obligated to do so. Contrary to what Hollywood likes to portray, not all people in the military (especially the officers) are close-minded, type-A personalities with a 'my way or the highway' attitude.

As far as being a better person - absolutely. Although most of what 'makes' a person 'good' is instilled through family/church/school/etc., my military experiences have made me a better person. Trust and respect are a two way street. Without it, the fabric of the military falls apart.

I better stop, I'm getting on a soapbox...
 

B_big dirigible

Experimental Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Posts
2,672
Media
0
Likes
12
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
What a strange notion - the idea that learning how to salute and fold towels somehow suits one for the national executive office. The conviction that military service is the same as "putting one's life on the line for his country" is peculiar, too. Most persons who go through the military never have so much as a rock thrown at them. Over half of the American casualties so far in the war against the Islamic death cult have been civilians. So if we're looking for easy solutions, Keillor's proposal - not a new one, of course - doesn't seem particularly insightful or sensible. Historically, America has been wary of military men in civilian office since the Cincinnati Society - whether that suspicion is justified is arguable.

Looking back over the history of US presidents, I can't see any strong correlation between Presidential skill and/or performance and prior military service. Certainly my own candidates for three best (albeit underrated) Presidents were lifetime civilians.
 

B_BatBoy

1st Like
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Posts
8
Media
0
Likes
1
Points
146
Location
USA
Sexuality
Unsure
Gender
Male
ClaireTalon said:
I certainly don't want a president who is almost exclusively dependent on his advisors who make the big decisions for him.

I kinda wish that the prez we have now would be more dependent on his advisors because when he strikes out on his own it seems to inevitably end up in disaster. I don't want W making any decisions bigger than when to make his next bowel movement and to leave it up to his advisors where to do it.
 

ClaireTalon

Experimental Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Posts
1,917
Media
0
Likes
16
Points
183
Age
60
Location
Puget Sound
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Female
Although while at it, I often had the desire to kick the crap out of it or to strangle someone with the chain of command, I now regard it as a blessing. Someone else on this thread said the military was a job program for poor rural white people, poor innercity black people, with an elite of white middle-class officers. Well, in my case it's been a job maker for the poor rural white girl, it was my only way to somehow get rid of my hick family and being the town laugh at bumfuck, GA, where most of the girls left High School before graduation in the belief a feebly filled wages bag was better than more years of learning, and where the guys believed anything with tits on it had to be there at their convenience. Job training, college education, skilled jobs would have been out of my reach if I hadn't beat it one day and taken the military way. It isn't all about learning to salute and how to make your bed and how to dress sharply. It gave me some new experiences too, along the way, when my accomplishments were honored, which was completely new to me.

"In terms of ethics" it hasn't changed so much on me. I've always been more a rebellious type, which I could cover up at the beginning, but became more and more difficult for me towards the end of my career. Still I learned something about finding my place in a command chain, and how working with stupid bosses is possible - commanding officers aren't always what they are because they're necessarily smarter than you, but they still are your boss, and you don't want to do a CLM.

For me, the most important thing is still that the military training gave me stacks of job offers after I had resigned. I took a year off completely, but the offers would keep coming, I stacked them on my desk, and none of them was bad. Airlines, plane makers, electronics and defense industry, everyone seemed to have some kind of use for me. Also, it's given me a number of lifetime friends, mostly the girls that I'd gone to flight school with, and those that've been my ROTC comrades.

Altogether I'd say yes - it was a blessing.
 

headbang8

Admired Member
Joined
May 15, 2004
Posts
1,618
Media
12
Likes
809
Points
333
Location
Munich (Bavaria, Germany)
Sexuality
80% Gay, 20% Straight
Gender
Male
Garrison Keilor said:
An individual has vast power to do mischief, which is why our parents inoculated us against narcissism. "Spoiled" was a strong pejorative. When it was applied to us, it stung. And so you went through many little experiences that taught you not to think that the world revolves around you.

I was in the elevator in my apartment building the other day, and overheard a young woman on her cellphone.

"Hi, it's me...I just got home and changed clothes...and I'm going out to meet Andrew for dinner so I called you up to keep me company on the way over..."

Pretty selfish, especially when previous generations would have paid at least a mild courtesy to the person whose time you were demanding, such as, "just wondering how you were...". But not that uncommon in an age when a myspace blogger is encouraged to first cite his current mood and then start talking about himself.

Would a good dose of boot-camp discipline hose out this kind of self-absorption? Yes, definitely. It would teach people that sometimes, your welfare is dependent on others. That as a group--a platoon, a batallion, a country--we can achieve more than any one individual, or the sum total of individuals acting in their own interest. Competitiveness isn't always a virtue. Treat the stranger you meet with dignity and respect; your life could depend on their help at any moment. And be careful whom you call an enemy.

What bugs me is that nowadays, the military seems like the ONLY place to learn these life lessons. The sporting field? Self-Interest Central. School or college? The emphasis is more on grinding out the highest possible SAT score than a creating a person who lives up to the the highest possible principles. Old fashioned extra-curricular activities, which taught us the virtues of working in a group for the sheer pleasure of doing so, seems to have been replaced with a focus on learning skills that look good on a resume.

Did the military strengthen the character of previous generations? Yes, but so did the weft and weave of community life, with all of its give-and-take that made us so mindful of the benefits of having a common cause, and of keeping our mutual welfare in mind. It's largely disappeared in favour of the grandiose gestures of private charity, often ineffective because all the money in the world can't reach the source of a problem without a human hand delivering it.

And the physical side of military training proves important to an integrated human being. In these days where our attentiveness and visual acuity is largely learned on-screen, and our physical fitness concentrates on mindless hours on stairmasters and repetitious weightlifting, the integration of physical, mental and emotional discipline involved in the military simply makes better, healthier people. You could get the same skills from more active sports, orienteering, or from sheer physical labour--but many of us don't.

I get where Keilor is coming from. But rather than calling on us all to serve in the military, better we should learn these lessons on the hoof, as we live our lives. Maybe we'd start living those values.
 

ClaireTalon

Experimental Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Posts
1,917
Media
0
Likes
16
Points
183
Age
60
Location
Puget Sound
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Female
Wow, a great statement for military service you gave there. The selfishness you describe is something I consider as a byproduct of the streamlining young guys and girls seem to get on the conventional way of education, which is basically scoring on your SAT's one after another time, without learning things that are off your track. Focusing on a goal is an appreciative feature, in my eyes, but there are things that aren't beyond succeeding, irrational things sometimes, but important nonetheless. Money isn't everything, and doing a job just for the payment, gratifictaion or incentive compensation can be frustrating, especially when success doesn't come as quick as one wants. It's not so much about primary skills, more a matter of social skills and self-discipline, physical and mental self-control.

Through colleagues, I sometimes get in contact with college interns, and am astounded of their way of thinking, some thinking they can get through life without ever getting into an uncomfortable situation. When they hear they're talking to a woman who has gone through basic training, college, officer training, flight school, and had her butt over MMFD twice, it seems so unimaginable to them. I wonder whether that's because I'm a woman, me talking so calmly of it, or the story altogether. And then I wonder if they'd be able to push on past the point where you think you can't make it, and "it" isn't just a test you have a bad feeling about.

So many important things I've learned going my way, sometimes unwilling, sometimes with a feeling that I'm not going to make it, and more than once it helped me going through life. I'd not overrate military service though, I've been in for 22 years, and the last two years really were a bitch. But a few years in won't do damage.