Flat Tax

[justmeincal]

Hootie, I also hate the alternative minimum tax. Uncle Sam got me big time with it. I have a huge credit with the gov. now because of it. However, since I'm now retired and not making the big bucks anymore, I'll never get to use all of my credit with them. I'll go to my death someday with Uncle Sam keeping a lot of my money. The only upside is that I never have to pay taxes anymore.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

I would be in favor of flat tax, if it also eliminated all tax breaks and shelters and loopholes. Most of those are geared toward breaks for the upper brackets, anyway.

Yah, I see it the same way. If a flat tax rate was equally applied and enforced across the board I might well be in favor of it. It certainly would simplify tax preparation and that would be a welcome change.

I'd be open to the idea of an almost-flat tax that exempts, say, the lowest 15% of wage-earners.

A tax break for the lowest income earners? Now that would be a switch.

 

[justmeincal]

I've been at the bottom of the tax scale and at the top. Paying taxes was awful in different ways. When I was poor, I had to borrow money to pay my taxes. When life was better monetarily, I was ticked I had to hand over so much money.

With a flat tax with no deductions, I worry about charities. I give money to charities, but I have to admit that being able to write those deductions off prompts me to give more than I might otherwise. I know that may sound shameful, but that's reality.

I have to admit, I never answer my phone anymore without hearing who is on the answering machine. I'm just a sucker for any charity and can't say no to any of them. So now I give to organizations I know and support.

 

[Edmond405]

Kind of like tithing (<===in Christianspeak===>) 10% to the Lord. I think that the government should tax nothing more than what God gets. 1 to 9 percent. Max. :smile:

AMEN!

All should read a book by the GREAT talk radio host Neal Boortz, The Fair Tax. It is a great read and right in line with what we're discussing here. I've expressed my opinions here before about government and other issues and y'all know, "Less government is best!" is my motto.

Just think how wonderful to wake up and hear that the IRS has been dismantled! Yea!

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

I think they should tax lies told about bodies and sexual escapades. This room alone could balance the national budget.

 

[B_JQblonde]

Mine too. I don't know may lazy poor people. They work their asses off to scrape by.

It's ignorant to think that people are poor because they don't work hard.

It's also ignorant to think rich people are lazy.

 

[B_JQblonde]

Absolutely against. Those who profit more should pay more. It's ludicrous to expect me and Bill Gates to pay the same amount.

Profit more from what ? Their jobs?

Silly.

 

[Lex]

It's also ignorant to think rich people are lazy.

Did I say that? Or are you making assumptions?

 

[TheBeast]

This just makes no sense to me, some peoples argument here.

We have a progressive tax IE the more you make the more you pay, the higher percentage of your income goes to the gov. Everyone is playing the oh pitty me card, arguing for a flat tax, but it would only help people like bill gates. And yes there are just as many loopholes for the small guy as there are for bill gates. IE if you want to donate your income to charity you can write it off as taxes.

The real problem is not in the tax system, but how our society has become welfare dependent.

 

[Lex]

The real problem is not in the tax system, but how our society has become welfare dependent.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

 

[B_JQblonde]

"I wholeheartedly disagree."

Please expound. Do you disagree about the statement about the tax system? about the welfare state comment??

 

[Lex]

The tax system is broken (and large corporations abuse it regularly).

We should have supports for those that need it (and we should not allow abuse).

Two different issues requiring different threads for discussion.

 

[B_JQblonde]

The tax system is broken (and large corporations abuse it regularly).

We should have supports for those that need it (and we should not allow abuse).

Two different issues requiring different threads for discussion.

Well there shouldn't even be a corporate tax. One of the two brilliant taxation schemes concocted by liberals, the other being withholding .

but don't we have supports for those that need them??

 

[Lex]

Businesses should not be taxed? Really?

 

[HazelGod]

Currently 12.7% of the US population are below the federal poverty line. (source)

Classic example of bullshit statistics being used to prop up the perception of an administration's economic efficacy. IOW, garbage in, garbage out. (Preemptive note to right-wing neocon nutjobs: Notice that I said an administration, not this one. I'm well aware of the widespread political practice of statistical manipulation for one side's benefit. My point here is to illustrate to those who aren't familiar with these practices that they shouldn't be quick to trust statistical claims without being at least passingly familiar with the underlying datasets.)

Case in point:
The 2006 Poverty Guidelines published by the Dept. of Health & Human Services.

These annually updated tables are used to determine eligibility for various social services for the impoverished. In 2006, the established poverty line for a single person was $9800 per annum in the lower 48 states. That line increases by $3400 for each additional person in a household.

Things get even muddier when you realize that the government actually generates a second, separate set of poverty measurement through the Census bureau. So as not to be confusing, these are referred to as the Poverty Thresholds.
These aren't used for determining eligibility for services...only for administration and reporting. And wouldn't you know it...the 2006 "threshold" for a single person under 65 is $10,488. A little over 7% higher than the HHS figure, but still ridiculously low compared to reality. Hmmm, I wonder if that might create a discrepancy of any sort...like people whom Census recognizes are impoverished, but whom HHS does not (and denies benefits).

Two problems immediately leap at me from this information:

1. The established poverty line is complete bullshit. It's too low by a factor of at least 50%...almost anyone trying to live on less than $15k per year is impoverished, certain rural lifestyles notwithstanding. So, this purportedly low poverty rate of 12.x% is artificially derived from a skewed data set.

2. The establishing line is far too broad in its application. A single parent raising a child is subjected to the same "standard" of poverty ($13,200/year) as is a married couple with no children. Yeah, that's fair...and makes for truly valid statistical analyses of those who fall under the line.

Anyhow, not shitting in your Wheaties, mindseye...just pointing out that the published poverty stats are painting a rosier picture of the economic landscape than reality would dictate.

Businesses should not be taxed? Really?

I have to agree with Lex's confusion on this one. Corporations in the USA are given legal status as individual entities...and one of the consequences of enjoying such status is being subject to taxation.

For grins, I found the IRS data from the last year available for both individual and corporate tax returns (2003). Here are some interesting highlights:

The IRS showed combined earnings of around $26.9T (yes, that's trillion), with 77% of that figure coming from corporate returns.

On this income, the IRS collected $925.5B...roughly 3.5% overall. Now of that tax money, corporations account for only 19%. Us little walking, breathing people made up the 81% difference.


Is it just me, or does it seem really effed up to anyone else that corporations account for nearly 80% of the nation's revenue, but kick in less than 20% of the income taxes?

 

[B_JQblonde]

Businesses should not be taxed? Really?

No.Really.
Who do you think pays those taxes? The 'business".

PSTTTTTTTTT-YOU do!

 

[B_JQblonde]

Oh well. By all means. Establish the poverty line at any level you wish Hazel.

Then explain how you would propose the Government ensure people don't fal below that line? I'm sure it can all be fixed by the Government, right?

 

[Lex]

No.Really.
Who do you think pays those taxes? The 'business".

PSTTTTTTTTT-YOU do!

When they start sending me portions of their profits, I'll start considering whether they should NOT pay taxes.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

We have a progressive tax IE the more you make the more you pay, the higher percentage of your income goes to the gov.

In theory but not in practice. The greater the wealth, the greater the opportunities for sheltering income. Anyone who takes a home mortgage or uses a business for a write off soon finds that out.

 

[B_JQblonde]

When they start sending me portions of their profits, I'll start considering whether they should NOT pay taxes.

Again , they're not paying them.
YOU ARE.

And any company in America will gladly share a portion of their profits with you. but you knew that, right?