Flight MH17 shot down

[Jason]

What's the difference from the british empire?

The British Empire did the most good and least harm of any empire ever.

I'm well aware that the British Empire did much harm, but that doesn't change the validity of the key proposition.

In the context of the present crisis there may well be a role for Cameron and the UK in leading the demands for EU nations' action against Putin. We have to contain the threat posed by Russia.

 

[dandelion]

The British Empire did the most good and least harm of any empire ever.

Was the world really a better place because of the existence of the British empire? I doubt it. The only way to justify this would be to argue that had the british withdrawn, someone worse would have taken over. indeed, this has been the case since they left various countries but still that isnt justification because the british arrival irreversibly upset local arrangements.

In the context of the present crisis there may well be a role for Cameron and the UK in leading the demands for EU nations' action against Putin.

Cameron was just making a rousing speech demanding action by europe. Sounded good. Sounded a lot better than Blair's arguments about invading Iraq. But then, if we are to go to war with Russia, it had better be.

I am wholly convinced russia is to blame for the aeroplane being shot down. If they believed they were not responsible then they would now be cooperating with an investigation and they patently are not. news just said there has been no evidence the Ukrainians have fired any missiles during this war, but the US has footage of the right kind of rocket launcher departing scene with missing rocket. Crossed my mind to wonder if US spying is sufficiently good they know serial numbers of rockets distributed by russia, so if they found a marked casing it could be identified. News again said locals have been removing items from the crash site.

 

[rbkwp]

from Flight MH17 shot down commiserations
to
the British Empire .. such is Politics, LPSG style ..

 

[798686]

I thought the UK, Cameron and Farage were Putin's best friends and emulators in trying to revive a dead Empire?

Well you thought wrong, didn't you. :wink:

 

[eurotop40]

Well you thought wrong, didn't you. :wink:

I am always hoping.

 

[bar4doug]

Bar4doug, if Mexico had fallen in with Zimmerman and had Germany won WWI our border problems would a lot farther north, like Idaho maybe.

I doubt that Mexico would have been successful. Mexico knew they'd lose. Zimmermann's intention was distraction.

Euro, as far as WWI, Britain wrote a blank check to the Low Countries, if they were invaded by Germany. Big difference!

Yes. A difference in coming to someones aid versus paying someone to wage war with a potential enemy.

Also Britain was not an empire builder on the European continent ( of course everywhere else). But the Prussians wanted to build a greater Germania, and when that was done the Germans wanted 'liebensraum' in Poland, and all the other Eastern European Slavic states. Something about them being inferior beings. Or did you conveniently forget that too.

Nope. I did not forget the goals of the Third Reich, and the propaganda behind it. It was not in the line of conversation.

 

[rbkwp]

maybe just maybe
they've made progress in securing the crash site for the investigators ..

never known the usually hopeless UN to act so fast and make a decent decision !!!
GOOD move congratulations to them ..

 

[tripod]

maybe just maybe
they've made progress in securing the crash site for the investigators ..

never known the usually hopeless UN to act so fast and make a decent decision !!!
GOOD move congratulations to them ..

It will be difficult because fighting is still going on... Kiev hasn't stopped heavily shelling the area with tanks and artillery despite the declared "ceasefire".

Dutch coroners are already going through the bodies that the pro-Russian separatists loaded on refrigerated trains so at least that's a start.

All of that bluster about obstructing an investigation was pure political demagoguery. Samantha Powers should be ashamed of herself.

 

[slurper_la]

Obama goes AWOL again with just 40-second mention of Malaysian plane crash | Mail Online

You know Obama is in trouble when even the foreign press is criticizing him. Can't wait to see what excuse Holder comes up with this time.

Gee, Reagan was on vacation and didn't want to be bothered and FOX was critical of him....back in 1983

http://www.inquisitr.com/1365742/ob...-shootdown-of-a-civilian-airliner-was-better/


Reagan and KAL 007 - The Washington Post

.

 

[rbkwp]

Dutch coroners are already going through the bodies that the pro-Russian separatists loaded on refrigerated trains so at least that's a start.



true, good for that start i am pleased ..

 

[rbkwp]

NO reason to be boastful Australia Media
you have a penchant for that that sort of behaviour, someone needed to do it, you took the initiative, plain and simple ..
astonishingly fast i agree, but dont forget your several false promises of progress re MH370 ..


That the resolution survived Russia’s power of veto with its language and intent largely intact was the result of a smart and astonishingly fast diplomatic effort led by Australia.

UN resolution on MH17: How Australia achieved what other nations could not

 

[geitjeshoeder]

As we speak the preparations are being made to airlift the bodies from Charkov to Eindhoven (Netherlands) where Australian and Dutch forensic experts will start identification at the Van Opheusden military complex in Hilversum (Netherlands).

The air bridge between Charkov (Ukraine) and Eindhoven (Netherlands) will be a joint effort of the Nehterlands and Australia involving Dutch C-130s and an Australian C-17

BBC newsitem

 

[dandelion]

Dutch coroners are already going through the bodies that the pro-Russian separatists loaded on refrigerated trains so at least that's a start.

Wonder if they gave them a good washing first to remove any traces of explosive? Wonder if theyve had time to send the black boxes off to russia for reprogramming and then back?

 

[tripod]

Wonder if they gave them a good washing first to remove any traces of explosive? Wonder if theyve had time to send the black boxes off to russia for reprogramming and then back?

The weak Western mind at work.

 

[Jason]

The weak Western mind at work.

Dandelion's mind drives many on this board round the twist (me for starters!) It isn't weak. @Tripod you are tending to attack the person not the idea, which isn't an acceptable way to debate.

 

[Klingsor]

Tripod stirs the pot. The second coming of Underguy!

 

[geitjeshoeder]

Pictures!

The stabilizer has been penetrated by fanblades. The only way to get fandisks on a RR Trent jet engine to break apart and do this kind of damage is by blowing up something near the plane. Since the Engines account for most of the radar cross image, it looks like an X-band guided proximity warhead went of near the engines. So yes where looking at a SAM.

 

[tripod]

Dandelion's mind drives many on this board round the twist (me for starters!) It isn't weak. @Tripod you are tending to attack the person not the idea, which isn't an acceptable way to debate.

Those didn't qualify as ideas, so... how can attack them? I thought addressing the intellect that spawned them was appropriate.

This guy comes out of nowhere with a line by line dissection of my ideas... who the fuck does he think he is? He came at ME first and decided to take it upon himself to give me an intellectual thrashing.

And then I'm the dick for defending myself... typical Western bullshit. You guys talk out both sides of your mouth and then whine whenever it comes back on you.

The thing is... you don't have any convictions... you adopt the convictions of others and lap up what is fed to you from the mainstream corporate media. You have been lied to your whole life. Stop being lied to by not accepting the lie as truth.

Tripod stirs the pot. The second coming of Underguy!

Aye and I'm using a big fookin' spoon.

 

[Jason]

This guy comes out of nowhere with a line by line dissection of my ideas... who the fuck does he think he is?

He has given you detailed and thought-provoking feedback on your ideas. Were you to buy such feedback it would be expensive.

@Dandelion has been posting on this board for years and has established his credentials for thorough and careful comment on arguments presented here. While I often think he is wrong, he is able to defend his ideas very well indeed. Debate with him is a learning process. The challenge for people like me who don't agree with much that he says is to have the humility to listen to his arguments and to change my point of view when he persuades me I'm wrong.

@Tripod, by all means present your views. But always consider that you may be wrong.

 

[dandelion]

Pictures!

I know you commented, but is there anything else to be seen in them? Is it likely that something like parts of a missile might be identifiable in the wreckage? Thanks for your input.