Flint report stupidity

[twoton]

Saw an AP article about a new report on the Flint water crisis. The conclusion, after hearing from 100 Flint residents: no documented racism, no evidence of racism, no evidence that any civil rights laws were broken. THEREFORE, the RACISM that caused the water crisis was "systemic," because it didn't happen in wealthier white areas.

See, we can't prove the racism, so we'll just conclude that it exists in ways that can be neither proven nor disproven.

I also noted the linking of wealthier with white. This, itself, really is racist, because the natural inference is that poverty is a function of being black.

The huge question left by the article is: was it racism or classism that led to the water crisis? Or are they the same thing?

 

[giantsfrey]

Nice post and questions, twoton. Having worked in the public utilities industry testing drinking water, wastewater, and raw source water for EPA and state compliance for the past 5 years, I feel pretty strongly that the problems here were not wrought by racism OR classism. It was a systematic failure of ethics violations and poor decision-making that I think would have happened regardless of the race of the people served. One must remember that while blacks certainly took the brunt of these failures, whites were affected by this water crisis as well. Nobody said "Oh, they are mostly black or poor, so we can poison them," haha. That said, the financial state of the city was probably the single largest driving force of the problem. The entire distribution system is old and in disrepair, and they switched water sources twice after fights with Detroit over contract terms of buying water from their source, and the change in water chemistry is what scoured the pipes and freed the lead from the inside of the pipes. Flint, while largely African-American, is also an extremely cash-poor municipality. I do not believe there is an inherent connection between blacks and poverty, but in the US there is a clear systematic connection tying blacks to poverty due to all sorts of historical issues and public policies, many of which are proving to take many generations to fix. Similarly, the tendency to neglect underground water and sewer systems is a theme not unique to Flint. You will likely see more of this in aging municipalities in the coming decades. These problems are VERY expensive to fix, so if your city leadership and utility board do not want to charge people money, or cannot charge them money because they are too poor, you end up with problems like this. So to answer your question: No, I don't think this is a racist or a classist issue, per se. I do believe it is a tragedy of the commons, and a political failure, which always affects the poor disproportionately because they have fewer means for recourse, and in many cities, the black community has been stunted by poor social governing practices. So I believe the fact that blacks/poor folk were hurt disproportionately is a function of systematic design, not by any sort of malice of the people in charge in this case. The people tasked with seeing, addressing, and acting on these problems do need to be held accountable for their decisions, but I believe the blame should be placed on their lack of professional knowledge and ethical integrity, not their alleged racism or classism.

 

[giantsfrey]

Feel free to post that AP article, if you can still find it.

 

[twoton]

Feel free to post that AP article, if you can still find it.

I saw it in our local newspaper--yes, I still read a hardcopy newspaper everyday--but here's an online link:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/df42...ssion-systemic-racism-root-flint-water-crisis

 

[giantsfrey]

Not a bad article at all. I just caution blaming the problems on racism, because I think the primary issues of funding public infrastructure and having capable people at the helm rather than politicians should take precedent. Saying these sorts of problems wouldn't happen in wealthier, whiter communities like Ann Arbor is untrue (See: Corpus Cristi, TX), and detracts from finding meaningful solutions. It should be noted that the EPA and courts are not blaming racism. That finger was pointed by a local civil rights group with their own agendas. By the way, I AM a liberal, haha, I swear! Racism is real, but in this instance it is a minor factor, if at all.

 

[Jjz1109]

Not a bad article at all. I just caution blaming the problems on racism, because I think the primary issues of funding public infrastructure and having capable people at the helm rather than politicians should take precedent. Saying these sorts of problems wouldn't happen in wealthier, whiter communities like Ann Arbor is untrue (See: Corpus Cristi, TX), and detracts from finding meaningful solutions. It should be noted that the EPA and courts are not blaming racism. That finger was pointed by a local civil rights group with their own agendas. By the way, I AM a liberal, haha, I swear! Racism is real, but in this instance it is a minor factor, if at all.

Sadly, this hasn't stopped many from turning Flint into yet another an issue of race.

This week, a story broke out that underground water across Long Island NY is being contaminated by a plume of toxic waste from a chemical factory in Bethpage. The threat has been known for years, and the impact potentially threatens the drinking water of hundreds of thousands, yes, hundreds of thousands, of every race.

 

[twoton]

The article is ok. The problem is, perhaps, the content of the report itself. I haven't read the report.

 

[giantsfrey]

I wouldn't even bother reading it. It isn't legally binding and it's not from an enforcement/compliance agency, or field professionals.

 

[Klingsor]

This week, a story broke out that underground water across Long Island NY is being contaminated by a plume of toxic waste from a chemical factory in Bethpage. The threat has been known for years, and the impact potentially threatens the drinking water of hundreds of thousands, yes, hundreds of thousands, of every race.

Don't worry. Now that Scott Pruitt is heading the EPA, we'll get rid of all those silly regulations standing in the way of companies like the one in Bethpage.

 

[Mercurygirl]

Don't worry. Now that Scott Pruitt is heading the EPA, we'll get rid of all those silly regulations standing in the way of companies like the one in Bethpage.

Such a constructive post. No, wait, I see what you did there. Instead of taking responsibility for mistakes made by democrats in Flint, and in true liberal pass the buck smokescreen fashion, you've decided to use a cheap political diversionary tactic to make this a Republican issue when the fact is IT WAS ALL DONE UNDER THE WATCH OF DEMOCRATS, FROM THE CITY, COUNTY, AND STATE LEVEL, ALL THE WAY UP TO THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

Democrats, democrats, democrats, and democrats.

Your revisionist history won't work here liberal. Own your fuck up.

 

[Industrialsize]

Such a constructive post. No, wait, I see what you did there. Instead of taking responsibility for mistakes made by democrats in Flint, and in true liberal pass the buck smokescreen fashion, you've decided to use a cheap political diversionary tactic to make this a Republican issue when the fact is IT WAS ALL DONE UNDER THE WATCH OF DEMOCRATS, FROM THE CITY, COUNTY, AND STATE LEVEL, ALL THE WAY UP TO THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

Democrats, democrats, democrats, and democrats.

Your revisionist history won't work here liberal. Own your fuck up.

Governor Snyder is a Republican:
FLINT, MI -- Gov. Rick Snyder has approved adding $1.5 million to a contract for legal services with a law firm that's defending him against possible criminal charges tied to the Flint water crisis.
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2016/12/gov_snyder_adds_15_million_to.html

 

[Mercurygirl]

Governor Snyder is a Republican:
FLINT, MI -- Gov. Rick Snyder has approved adding $1.5 million to a contract for legal services with a law firm that's defending him against possible criminal charges tied to the Flint water crisis.
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2016/12/gov_snyder_adds_15_million_to.html

Protecting oneself from democrats' mistakes isn't a crime.

 

[Industrialsize]

Protecting oneself from democrats' mistakes isn't a crime.

revisionist history

 

[Mercurygirl]

revisionist history

Own your mistakes. Flint is a liberal fuck up.

 

[Industrialsize]

Own your mistakes. Flint is a liberal fuck up.

once again, not as simple as you would have us believe:
Based on what is currently known, Snyder does bear a significant share of the responsibility. His fiscal approach helped set the stage for the water switch that led to the poisoning, and it was his hand-picked emergency managers who implemented the changes. Snyder also oversaw the state environmental and health departments that have come in for sharp criticism for their failures to act quickly and forcefully when the first indications of a problem cropped up.

However, experts say that claims from Clinton and Sanders that focus on Snyder alone oversimplify matters -- and give a partisan spin to what is more fairly characterized as a broad failure of governance at all levels. Such one-sided accounts gloss over the responsibility borne by local Flint officials who supported the decision, by an EPA that failed to press harder for changes as the problem worsened, and by officials of both parties who contributed to the longstanding fiscal problems at both the state and city level.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/feb/15/whos-blame-flint-water-crisis/

 

[deleted15807]

Own your mistakes. Flint is a liberal fuck up.

Like you owned Iraq and ISIS? Yep. Set the Middle East on fire under Bush but let's blame Obama and Hillary. I'm sure the PussyGrabber has Iran in his sights unless unless it's leaders give Trump a trans-Atlantic international blowjob then he'll love them.

Don't worry. Now that Scott Pruitt is heading the EPA, we'll get rid of all those silly regulations standing in the way of companies like the one in Bethpage.

From stem to stern every government agency will now be turned into zombies. Oh the lights will be on and they will have employees and they will move paper around but each agency will exist to further the wishes of the 1% with it's original mission to protect and serve entirely gutted. And the awaiting disasters will happen and be blamed on the nearest democrat (see every post of MercuryGirl, the KellyAnne Conway of LPSG).

 

[Klingsor]

Such a constructive post. No, wait, I see what you did there. Instead of taking responsibility for mistakes made by democrats in Flint, and in true liberal pass the buck smokescreen fashion, you've decided to use a cheap political diversionary tactic to make this a Republican issue when the fact is IT WAS ALL DONE UNDER THE WATCH OF DEMOCRATS, FROM THE CITY, COUNTY, AND STATE LEVEL, ALL THE WAY UP TO THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

Democrats, democrats, democrats, and democrats.

Your revisionist history won't work here liberal. Own your fuck up.

You've done some revisionist history of your own, since I clearly wasn't talking about Flint in the first place.

But if we share concerns about poisoning the environment, wherever it may occur, perhaps we can agree that gutting the EPA is not such a wise move.

 

[giantsfrey]

Well that escalated quickly haha.

 

[twoton]

Well that escalated quickly haha.

Like a really tall dam that suddenly bursts.

 

[TurkeyWithaSunburn]

Flint, Mich., Official Resigns After Being Caught on Tape Blaming Water Crisis on ‘N******’ Who ‘Don’t Pay Their Bills’

Phil Stair, the sales manager of the Genessee County Land Bank, handed in his resignation after being recorded blaming the city’s water crisis on “fucking n****** [who] don’t pay their bills.” Stair’s resignation was accepted by the Land Bank’s executive director, Michele M. Wildman, on Monday, MLive reports.

Lyons said that she is concerned, given Land Bank’s role as Flint’s biggest property owner. As MLive notes, the agency takes over tax-foreclosed properties and carries out demolitions, rehabilitations and sales.
“The Land Bank is taking up all of the properties in Flint. ... They are pushing people out of neighborhood,” Lyons told MLive.

Of course he's also not racist

“I don’t want to call them n******; shit, I just went to Myrtle Beach [with] 24 guys, and I was the only white guy,”

Just wow! Guess he might have trouble paying his own water bill now that he's unemployed.