i didnt read most of the replies on here. but i think any straight guy that claims he is willing to engage in sexual activity with another man is indeed gay. for one reason or another just decided to go through life as a straight person.
For the straight men.
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Hey BB, it's just my opinion, but guys who consider themselves "straight" have casual sex with other guys all the time, like jerking off or a little head. Guys don't usually talk about it but it happens. There's a big difference between going to bed with another straight guy & just "fooling around". Fooling around can happen in a quick kind of way,like changing clothes to go swimming or just hanging out watching porno & drinking beer. So I'm not sure that any guys I've had a little fun with are going to define themselves as bisexual or gay. They, and me too, just think of it as being horny & getting off, not some life style choice.
:beer:
[post=347556]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]BB, I've been thinking about this a little more. There are some guys who are able to have an orgasm in like a minute or two. This may not seem like sex or love making or something,but it happens. I also think that it depends in what part of the country you're in. In Los Angeles where I live, there's this whole interest now in masturbation parties or something like that where straight guys go jerk off together or with whoever, as a way of dealing with frustrated sexual energy. This may seem weird to some people but it makes sense from one point of view. If you don't have a wife or girlfriend, and you're not into sexual stuff with gay guys, then you can go drink beer, get wasted & jerk off with your buddies. Guys have been doing this for as long as there have been males, but now I think it's more organized & there's less shame attached to it. BTW I haven't experienced this kind of party myself,but I have male friends who have. So BB, I'm not sure how you'd classify this activity.
:beer:
By what definition?
What about a man who fools around with another guy a couple times in his life but is only sexual with women for the rest of his life? Are you saying he is gay?
What if it's only one time? What if he and a buddy jerk each other off at age 15, and after that only women ... Gay????
Wouldn't that be like saying 'any man who engages in sexual activity with a woman is straight'? That would make me straight and, junglefever, I can prove I'm not.
This reminds me of "The Superbowl is Gay" by Andy Milonakis .. anybody see that?
FUcking hysterical.
Entertaining thread to say the least.
I think a larger percentage would not do anything with a gay guy.
But there is certainly a percentage who would.
i know, because i've messed around with them.
Some of those straight guys were really gay deep down,
but most were not.
In fact, most of them probably have not been with another
gay guy in their lives.
Most of these things happened when we were drinking too much...
and were young and extremely horny.
I would also agree...an extremely horny and tipsy young guy is likely
to do things that he probably shouldn't.
And that goes for gay and straight guys.
I think a larger percentage would not do anything with a gay guy.
But there is certainly a percentage who would.
i know, because i've messed around with them.
Some of those straight guys were really gay deep down,
but most were not.
In fact, most of them probably have not been with another
gay guy in their lives.
Most of these things happened when we were drinking too much...
and were young and extremely horny.
I would also agree...an extremely horny and tipsy young guy is likely
to do things that he probably shouldn't.
And that goes for gay and straight guys.
By what definition?
What about a man who fools around with another guy a couple times in his life but is only sexual with women for the rest of his life? Are you saying he is gay?
What if it's only one time? What if he and a buddy jerk each other off at age 15, and after that only women ... Gay????
Wouldn't that be like saying 'any man who engages in sexual activity with a woman is straight'? That would make me straight and, junglefever, I can prove I'm not.
This reminds me of "The Superbowl is Gay" by Andy Milonakis .. anybody see that?
FUcking hysterical.
[post=347885]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]ho·mo·sex·u·al P Pronunciation Key (hm-sksh-l, -m-)
adj.
Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
some form of attraction is needed to engage in sexual activity, drunk or sober. i am going to claim that anyone that acts on this attraction is an homosexual, whether its once or multiple times. lets stop kidding ourselves and use a little common sense.
you make it sound like a significant percentage of straight people have sexual encounter with another man at some point in their life. those that engage in sexual activity with men end up being homosexuals, or homosexuals living as a heterosexual. there are many explanations for why a homosexual will sleep with women at some point. many men are not openly gay until well into adulthood, i am sure its common for them to sleep with women cos it seems like the normal thing to do.
Look at what you typed: sexual orientation. Orientation is not the same as activity. I can eat a meatless meal every once in a while, but that doesn't make me a vegetarian. I'm sure I could function sexually with a woman, but that does not make me a heterosexual. I'm not going to suggest that every straight man, or even the majority, would try gay sex once if given the opportunity, but I will assure you that a fair number of them will experiment to see what all the fuss is about. A large number of those who give it a try will agree that while they're not ashamed that they had that one-time experience, gay sex just wasn't for them. Sexual orientation is about what happens in your brain, not what you do do with your cock (or mouth or ass, for that matter). If you're straight and have no desire to try sex with a man once, that's fine; I'm not planning to try fucking a woman just to have that experience. However, not all straight people are the same: judging someone else's sexuality by what you personally would or would not do is not valid.
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Bruce,
I have enjoyed your posts ever since I have been here. I have particularly enjoyed reading about your closeness to your dad. There has to be a lot of love there. Some have indicated that love is sexual. It can be. It can be nonsexual. I suspect that you are capable of having a very strong nonsexual relationship with your male friends and male family members.
It doesn't bother me at all that you just aren't interested in having a sexual contact with another male. You really owe no one an explanation why.
It appeared to me that you felt pushed and that what you said was not in hate or disapproval of gay people. You have appeared to me to be a "live and let live" person who doesn't care what others want to do sexually.
I am old enough to be your dad. The only thoughts that I have had about you is I wish I had the closeness that you have with your dad with my own sons. Not having a mother, your dad played both roles. You seem comfortable with your sexuality and and who you are. Perhaps some may have misunderstood what you said in the first post. I understood.
I am glad that some apologies have been made. In spite of the fact that it was off post, in a way it wasn't. It showed how sensitive we can be about our sexuality.
To Everyone,
I don't think anyone did anything deliberately hateful or in an angry way. Some are searching and wanted some answers. I think they are getting them. I hope that all of this has helped us all understand each other. Sometimes it does take a short misunderstanding to help people sort things out for themselves. The important thing is that apologies have been made. Explanations given. And I hope all feel comfortable with other and their sexuality as each person understands himself.
I know it has not been easy for me as I have lived my life.
This thread has been about what would a striaght man do. Several have had to come to terms with what they would do. So the thread has been succesful.
Freddie
I have enjoyed your posts ever since I have been here. I have particularly enjoyed reading about your closeness to your dad. There has to be a lot of love there. Some have indicated that love is sexual. It can be. It can be nonsexual. I suspect that you are capable of having a very strong nonsexual relationship with your male friends and male family members.
It doesn't bother me at all that you just aren't interested in having a sexual contact with another male. You really owe no one an explanation why.
It appeared to me that you felt pushed and that what you said was not in hate or disapproval of gay people. You have appeared to me to be a "live and let live" person who doesn't care what others want to do sexually.
I am old enough to be your dad. The only thoughts that I have had about you is I wish I had the closeness that you have with your dad with my own sons. Not having a mother, your dad played both roles. You seem comfortable with your sexuality and and who you are. Perhaps some may have misunderstood what you said in the first post. I understood.
I am glad that some apologies have been made. In spite of the fact that it was off post, in a way it wasn't. It showed how sensitive we can be about our sexuality.
To Everyone,
I don't think anyone did anything deliberately hateful or in an angry way. Some are searching and wanted some answers. I think they are getting them. I hope that all of this has helped us all understand each other. Sometimes it does take a short misunderstanding to help people sort things out for themselves. The important thing is that apologies have been made. Explanations given. And I hope all feel comfortable with other and their sexuality as each person understands himself.
I know it has not been easy for me as I have lived my life.
This thread has been about what would a striaght man do. Several have had to come to terms with what they would do. So the thread has been succesful.
Freddie
ho·mo·sex·u·al P Pronunciation Key (hm-sksh-l, -m-)
adj.
Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
some form of attraction is needed to engage in sexual activity, drunk or sober. i am going to claim that anyone that acts on this attraction is an homosexual, whether its once or multiple times. lets stop kidding ourselves and use a little common sense.
you make it sound like a significant percentage of straight people have sexual encounter with another man at some point in their life. those that engage in sexual activity with men end up being homosexuals, or homosexuals living as a heterosexual. there are many explanations for why a homosexual will sleep with women at some point. many men are not openly gay until well into adulthood, i am sure its common for them to sleep with women cos it seems like the normal thing to do.
[post=347956]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]Hey Junglefever, I'm not sure where you're from (maybe some super right-wing Christian community) but I would say with complete confidence that the vast majority of my straight male friends here in Los Angeles have had some sexual experience with another guy sometime(s) in their adult lives. I also wouldn't describe them all as gay. So according to your definition, all of us are gay. :toast:
I'm sure that most out-of-the-closet gay guys in the LA would be happy as hell to hear how many of us there are.
Yes, that's been shown by study after study from Kinsey on forward. I can't remember Kinsey's exact percentage offhand, but I think it's about a third -- and that's of guys who identify as STRAIGHT. It's naturally much higher for men who consider themselves bisexual. But in your belief system, there are no such thing as bisexuals, right?
Yes, that's been shown by study after study from Kinsey on forward. I can't remember Kinsey's exact percentage offhand, but I think it's about a third -- and that's of guys who identify as STRAIGHT. It's naturally much higher for men who consider themselves bisexual. But in your belief system, there are no such thing as bisexuals, right?
[post=348134]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]it has also being shown that kinsey was an idiot. find another study besides anything done by kinsey.
Look at what you typed: sexual orientation. Orientation is not the same as activity. I can eat a meatless meal every once in a while, but that doesn't make me a vegetarian. I'm sure I could function sexually with a woman, but that does not make me a heterosexual. I'm not going to suggest that every straight man, or even the majority, would try gay sex once if given the opportunity, but I will assure you that a fair number of them will experiment to see what all the fuss is about. A large number of those who give it a try will agree that while they're not ashamed that they had that one-time experience, gay sex just wasn't for them. Sexual orientation is about what happens in your brain, not what you do do with your cock (or mouth or ass, for that matter). If you're straight and have no desire to try sex with a man once, that's fine; I'm not planning to try fucking a woman just to have that experience. However, not all straight people are the same: judging someone else's sexuality by what you personally would or would not do is not valid.
[post=348063]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]you are wrong...case closed. how do this straight men find gay men to engage in sexual activity with? men that look around for other men to engage in sexual activity with cannot really be considered heterosexual to begin with. the fact that most gays on here claim to have engaged in sexual activity with straight men doesnt make it true, and it definitely does not mean a significant amount of straight men engage in sexual activity with another man.
sexual activity is all about the brain...the brain is a processing center, there is an output for every sensation/input that comes in. you cant engage in a sexual activity without being cognizant of whats taking place. the brain controls the penis.
and i am not judging anyone, i just think we should cut out the BS and be a little more realistic.
madame_zora
Sexy Member
So, I'm not Muslim, but if I go to Mosque, I AM, automatically Muslim just because I check it out? I'm Muslim if I go three times?
No, of course not! I am whatever religious affiliation I am, I just have a curiousity and want to know what other people believe and how they worship. I may very well attend a multitude of services of different faiths to see how they compare and contrast to my own, it doesn't make me a member of their faith.
Your view, junglefever is short-sighted. You don't get to just pick who's right or wrong, YOU are not the ultimate authority, none of us are! In this forum, we have an unspoken collective agreement to let each person diagnose his own gender preference and sexuality affiliation, it's not for any one person to come on here and start labeling another.
Kinsey's study was not perfect, but there haven't been any more comprehensive since. He is one resource to consider along with newer smaller studies, but I don't think it's accurate to say he's been "debunked". He revealed a lot of previously undiscovered truths about sexuality in our culture, something most psychologists find useful.
I hope you will find a place of comfort for yourself here, but I hope you will not seek to condemn others, or you will find yourself most unwelcome.
No, of course not! I am whatever religious affiliation I am, I just have a curiousity and want to know what other people believe and how they worship. I may very well attend a multitude of services of different faiths to see how they compare and contrast to my own, it doesn't make me a member of their faith.
Your view, junglefever is short-sighted. You don't get to just pick who's right or wrong, YOU are not the ultimate authority, none of us are! In this forum, we have an unspoken collective agreement to let each person diagnose his own gender preference and sexuality affiliation, it's not for any one person to come on here and start labeling another.
Kinsey's study was not perfect, but there haven't been any more comprehensive since. He is one resource to consider along with newer smaller studies, but I don't think it's accurate to say he's been "debunked". He revealed a lot of previously undiscovered truths about sexuality in our culture, something most psychologists find useful.
I hope you will find a place of comfort for yourself here, but I hope you will not seek to condemn others, or you will find yourself most unwelcome.
bigeight_98
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you are wrong...case closed. how do this straight men find gay men to engage in sexual activity with? men that look around for other men to engage in sexual activity with cannot really be considered heterosexual to begin with. the fact that most gays on here claim to have engaged in sexual activity with straight men doesnt make it true, and it definitely does not mean a significant amount of straight men engage in sexual activity with another man.
sexual activity is all about the brain...the brain is a processing center, there is an output for every sensation/input that comes in. you cant engage in a sexual activity without being cognizant of whats taking place. the brain controls the penis.
and i am not judging anyone, i just think we should cut out the BS and be a little more realistic.
[post=348143]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]From your earlier posts, I'm pretty sure this will be like trying to convince a flat-earther the world is round, but here goes: For some reason you appear to believe that human sexuality is a one-way street, from straight to gay, and once you've "gone gay," there's no turning back. The reality is that it's not, and you're trying to defend a position that is completely illogical. In your mind, if someone has a sexual encounter with another male, say when both are 15, decides it's not that interesting after all, and exhibits nothing but heterosexual behavior for the next 75 years (dates only women, gets married, has kids, looks at Playboy for the pictures....the whole nine yards), it doesn't matter -- he's still gay. That's as untenable an argument as saying someone who tries chocolate once, decides he doesn't really like it after all, and never has any again is still a "chocoholic."
As others have pointed out, following your logic roughly 70% of the population would have to be labeled gay. (BTW, you asked for another source besides Kinsey -- check out Shere Hite's book on male sexuality.) I could introduce you to plenty of men who are happily married, have children they adore, and yet still have occasional relationships with men. What they call themselves (if they think about it at all) is of course their business, but if they were forced into a category you would have to label them bisexual to some degree. Many of the men Shere Hite interviewed said they found little support for their point of view, which in my experience is true. The gay community insists they are really gay and just haven't come to terms with it, while the straight community either thinks they have just lost their minds and need to snap out of it, or also feels they are really gay and unprepared to deal with it.
The problem is you are trying to label something that really cannot be labeled. Some years ago I met a guy at a Christmas party who had been happily married for thirty years to a woman he was very much in love with. Unfortunately she passed away when he was about fifty years old. Over the next few years he started realizing (for the first time ever) that he was also attracted to men, and ended up acting on these feelings and dating men. Following the logic of your argument, had he died at the age of 45, you would have said that he was straight his entire life. At the age of 55, however, you would categorize him as gay, thereby invalidating the entire first 50 years of his life, and insist that his loving relationship with his wife (during which he never even thought about another man) was really a fraud. Doesn't make much sense, does it?
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This thread is a little odd.
There is sexual actiivity and there are labels. It seems the argument here is about labels. Labels are defined meaning they have definitions. I can give any definition I want to anything.
Having said this, Jacinto pointed this out. Somehow it seems to have been missed. So. let's try again. All authorities that I have read including religious and secular, have the same definitions. And they are the same ones that appear in sexuality courses taught to our young people.
DEFINIIONS:
Straight means that a person is attracted primarily, if not totally to members of the opposite gender.
Gay or lesbian mean that a person is attracted primarily, if not totally to members of the same gender.
Bisexual means that a person is attracted to both genders and there is very little if any perference in attraction.
ACTIVITIES:
Any person can under certain conditions engage in sexual activities with any person, the door knob, the toilet paper roll or whatever. That does not change perference. However, some people do explore and change their perference over time. Usually these are people who are bisexual to being with.
As one expert put it, the penis doesn't know the difference between a hand, vaginia, anus, mouth or shower curtain. It is the brain that does knows the difference and that is where all sexual erotic feelings occur. The penis has no brain.
Relationships are a whole different matter as sexual feelings, romantic love, brotherly or sisterly love and a whole lot more figure in besides just gender preference.
Just because a person got it off with another person doesn't mean that they are necessarily that attracted to them sexually.
Words like primarily, usually etc mean there are exceptions. In a world of billions of people it would be normal to have some exceptions to any definition. Words like always and never will make most any statement concerning sexual preferences and ertotic feelings invalid.
There is sexual actiivity and there are labels. It seems the argument here is about labels. Labels are defined meaning they have definitions. I can give any definition I want to anything.
Having said this, Jacinto pointed this out. Somehow it seems to have been missed. So. let's try again. All authorities that I have read including religious and secular, have the same definitions. And they are the same ones that appear in sexuality courses taught to our young people.
DEFINIIONS:
Straight means that a person is attracted primarily, if not totally to members of the opposite gender.
Gay or lesbian mean that a person is attracted primarily, if not totally to members of the same gender.
Bisexual means that a person is attracted to both genders and there is very little if any perference in attraction.
ACTIVITIES:
Any person can under certain conditions engage in sexual activities with any person, the door knob, the toilet paper roll or whatever. That does not change perference. However, some people do explore and change their perference over time. Usually these are people who are bisexual to being with.
As one expert put it, the penis doesn't know the difference between a hand, vaginia, anus, mouth or shower curtain. It is the brain that does knows the difference and that is where all sexual erotic feelings occur. The penis has no brain.
Relationships are a whole different matter as sexual feelings, romantic love, brotherly or sisterly love and a whole lot more figure in besides just gender preference.
Just because a person got it off with another person doesn't mean that they are necessarily that attracted to them sexually.
Words like primarily, usually etc mean there are exceptions. In a world of billions of people it would be normal to have some exceptions to any definition. Words like always and never will make most any statement concerning sexual preferences and ertotic feelings invalid.
Steed Holt
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I need to affirm the former comment and specifically the above quote which so concisely puts the sexual component of man into a true prospective. The only differences among us and what we do is controlled by our belief systems; tempered by our life experiences...
Case closed ... how so? Because you say so? Who are you to make such dogmatic assertions? What is your evidence? Your uninformed opinion carries considerably less weight to me than the findings of legitimate psychological studies and my personal firsthand experiences and observations. My conclusions have a basis.
You're making unfounded assumptions. The majority of straight men that I've had sex with weren't looking around for men to have sex with. Situations happen that can lead to sexual encounters. I'm sure I don't have to list the various scenarios. Not everything that can lead to sex is pre-planned. As for the others, those who approached me specifically for sex weren't driven by attraction. Possibly horniness or possibly curiosity, but not because they found me sexually attractive. So how did they choose me as a sexual partner? Some saw me as a friend that they could trust with a secret. I don't go around around telling people, "You know Jim? We just sucked each other's cock!" They know that's not my way. They chose me to explore their curiosity, or simply to get off a nut with a partner, because they knew that it would not become a newsflash to everyone they knew. And over 90% of the time, it was a one-shot deal. They found out something about gay sex, and they found out that they hadn't been missing anything that they might like to have been engaging in regularly. Others chose me for the exact opposite reason: they didn't know me. I was not within their circle of friends. They didn't have to see me every day and say to himself, "His cock was in my mouth; what the fuck was I thinking?" Out of sight, out of mind. I have no doubt that this was a one-time experience for most, if not all, of them. I know you don't think much of Kinsey, but his scale system is still the best representation of the sexual continuum. So the men I described were Kinsey Scale 1's instead of 0's: predominately heterosexual, incidentally homosexual. That's still not the same as gay.
Cicero77
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Sorry to butt in but I found myself nodding to DMW's last post.
I had an experience last month with a nice young lad who initiated something with me and he says he's straight, has a girlfriend and doesn't want to do too much with guys. But he was horny and turned on by the idea of another lad doing things to him. After I gave him what he wanted and sent him on his way he went out with his girlfriend for the evening which I thought was really sweet. If a little unusual!
He considers himself heterosexual and that's cool by me. He told me he had a reputation to uphold with his mates and that he didn't want anyone to know. He prefers girls but just needed to do that. Fine - I felt glad that I was able to be the one to help a fella out while doing something I enjoyed (he was a sexy guy).
Perhaps he has some bisexual urges, but it's not up to me to call him gay if he that's not how he feels inside. Just because we enjoyed some physical contact together doesn't change anything - he still prefers girls.
Anyway, just thought I'd throw that it in there as another example of what DMW was saying (that is, if I've understood you right mate?).
Ian.
I had an experience last month with a nice young lad who initiated something with me and he says he's straight, has a girlfriend and doesn't want to do too much with guys. But he was horny and turned on by the idea of another lad doing things to him. After I gave him what he wanted and sent him on his way he went out with his girlfriend for the evening which I thought was really sweet. If a little unusual!
He considers himself heterosexual and that's cool by me. He told me he had a reputation to uphold with his mates and that he didn't want anyone to know. He prefers girls but just needed to do that. Fine - I felt glad that I was able to be the one to help a fella out while doing something I enjoyed (he was a sexy guy).
Perhaps he has some bisexual urges, but it's not up to me to call him gay if he that's not how he feels inside. Just because we enjoyed some physical contact together doesn't change anything - he still prefers girls.
Anyway, just thought I'd throw that it in there as another example of what DMW was saying (that is, if I've understood you right mate?).
Ian.
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