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Forensic Psychologist: McCain a Hero, Obama a Zero

Discussion in 'Politics' started by 1BiGG1, Oct 26, 2008.

  1. 1BiGG1

    1BiGG1 Experimental Member

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    :wink: Like many have been saying all along ….

    Are YOU fit to be president? Take the test - being-human - 24 October 2008 - New Scientist

    Think you could do a better job than Barack Obama or John McCain? To find out if you're fit for the Oval Office, simply take this personality test.

    I came across the test while researching a story about how conscientious people live longer.

    The authors of that study, Howard Friedman and Margaret Kern of the University of California at Riverside, cited George Washington as a prime example of someone unusually conscientious, noting that he lived to 67 – about twice the expected lifespan in America at the time.

    But Washington's exemplary conscientiousness came to light in a remarkable study in 2000 led by Steven Rubenzer, a forensic psychologist in Houston, Texas.

    He and his colleagues made psychological assessments of all 41 US presidents prior to George W Bush. You can see the main results here, where they ranked the presidents into eight different types, from "dominators" to "actors".

    Extravert McCain

    More recently, Rubenzer used the same tool to profile the three potential presidential candidates John McCain, Rudolf Guiliani and Hillary Clinton, presenting his results in July 2007 at the annual meeting of the International Society of Political Psychology in Portland, Oregon.

    Unfortunately, the analysis didn't include Barack Obama. "There wasn't enough quality biography on him to do so," Rubenzer says.

    Compared with average scores of previous presidents, McCain scored strongly on the trait of "extraversion". However, he was below average on "agreeableness" and "conscientiousness". He also scored highly on "angry hostility", "impulsivity", "excitement seeking", "positive emotions" and "openness to feelings", but was low on "compliance" and "deliberateness".

    "McCain is most similar to presidents classified as extraverts such as Franklin D Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt and John F Kennedy, and dominators, again including Theodore Roosevelt, and Andrew Jackson," Rubenzer says in the 2007 paper.

    Both Guiliani and Hillary Clinton scored extremely low on agreeableness. In fact, on overall ratings, McCain came out best of the three.

    "McCain shows the highest resemblance to a composite rating of better-that-average presidents," says Rubenzer. "This may have been due to his higher extraversion than the other two."

    In all his studies, Rubenzer asks biographers of individual presidents to rate the psychological characteristics of the president they had studied. As in the test above, they rated on a five-point scale the "Big Five" factors of personality (neuroticism, extroversion, openness, agreeableness, conscientiousness), as well as rating the presidents for 30 sub-factors.

    Great to be untidy

    In all, the test gives 240 items of measurement for each president, and the researchers worked out which presidents were the "greatest" by comparing them against each other, a kind of peer-versus-peer test.

    Rubenzer and colleagues found that the most important traits for true greatness were "openness", "assertiveness" (a sub-set of extraversion) and "achievement striving" (a subset of conscientiousness).

    "Conscientiousness" generally also emerged as a predictor of historical greatness, they say, and Washington came out highest on that measure, and Bill Clinton one of the lowest.

    Perhaps surprisingly, the best presidents also need to be haphazard.

    "Being a bit disorganised, like Abraham Lincoln, is somewhat of an asset for attaining historical greatness," they say. Perhaps less surprisingly, they also need to fib a bit rather than be straightforward, as a tactic to persuade people and achieve their ends.

    "They are not above tricking, cajoling, bullying or lying if necessary – they are true politicians, playing the right tune to each crowd," Rubenzer's team reports.

    Political spinners

    So who were the arch "spin doctors"? Again, Roosevelt came up, as did Lyndon B Johnson.

    But perhaps the trait of most vital importance is "openness to experience" – the ability to assimilate new values, emotions, feelings and aesthetics. This trait also correlates most strongly with intelligence, says Rubenzer.

    "Great presidents are attentive to their emotions, willing to question traditional values and try new ways of doing things, imaginative and more interested in art and beauty than less successful ones," say the researchers. "Historically great, high-openness presidents include Jefferson and Lincoln."

    So who was the greatest? Probably Washington, according to the researchers.

    "Washington embodies the traditional virtues of duty, responsibility, self-discipline, leadership and courage," they write, although "He falls quite short of the modern political commodities of warmth, empathy and open-mindedness."
     
  2. mindseye

    mindseye Experimental Member

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    Umm...

    So, they compared McCain to Hillary Clinton and Rudy Giuliani. Great start.

    Below average on "conscientiousness": Yup, we've seen that. He's flip-flopped on abortion; he's flip-flopped on deregulation -- whatever it takes to get through an election.

    Scored highly on "angry hostility", "impulsivity", and "excitement seeking": And you want that in the White House?

    Sheesh -- if you're citing articles like this as positive spin for your candidate, I'm thrilled.
     
  3. davec94

    davec94 Experimental Member

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    haha is this evidence that people should vote for mccain?
     
  4. 1BiGG1

    1BiGG1 Experimental Member

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    Unfortunately, the analysis didn't include Barack Obama. "There wasn't enough quality biography on him to do so," LOL! :biggrin1: :wink:



    "McCain shows the highest resemblance to a composite rating of better-that-average presidents," :cool:

    "McCain is most similar to presidents classified as extraverts such as Franklin D Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt and John F Kennedy, and dominators, again including Theodore Roosevelt, and Andrew Jackson," :cool:
     
  5. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 Banned

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    Indeed

    throughout the start of his campaign, there has been done much to avoid the appearance of Muslim affiliation, so much so, that as recent articles on Colin Powell's remarks show, Muslims felt deliberately excluded by both Parties as the national pariahs

    in regard to Obama's playing to the larger crowd, see the recent article about Obama's outreach program to Muslims in America, wherein was engaged a supporter of Islamic terrorist groups to lead that initiative

    (I know, I know, but all along, I have been saying that the perspective of his third world background, and his liberal ideology are going to lead to his NOT recognizing valid issues and dangers, whatever his intentions may be)

    as that background and history was exposed by the Fourth Estate, then that initiative was reviewed, and that individual's participation terminated (Obama concedes mistake over Muslim outreach meeting http://www.lpsg.org/107039-obama-7.html#post1775197 )

    makes one wonder what else Obama is trying to hide
     
  6. mindseye

    mindseye Experimental Member

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    So McCain is similar to a bunch of old presidents? Doesn't that reinforce Obama's point that McCain represents politics as usual, and Obama represents fundamental change?
     
  7. vince

    vince Legendary Member

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    Nick4444- Take your bigoted, stupid, paranoid ideas and put them where the sun don't sunshine.
     
  8. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 Banned

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    I sense you may not agree?:confused:
     
  9. D_N Flay Table

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    god damn fucking shit..

    Maybe we should have them take a myspace survey!!!
    that would really help me decide.
     
  10. vince

    vince Legendary Member

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    Just because there is not enough data to do a study, does not mean that the elements of greatness are not there. Looking at the criteria they used, and what I have observed of Obama, I predict he will be an above average President.

    Was the data used to analyze previous Presidents based on their lives before assuming office? Or was the data collected from before, during and after their terms?

    Interestingly, from the study I found this nugget-
    Summing these factors and comparing them with previous presidents, we find George W. Bush obtains a standard (z) score of - .91 while Kerry obtains a score of .52. These are equivalent to, respectively, the 17th and 68th percentile. In other words, Bush is predicted to eventually be regarded in the lower sixth among presidents, while Kerry, if elected, should be rated in the upper third.

    Too bad you didn't find this study four years ago 1Bigg1. It may have helped you to vote for the better man.
     
  11. Sklar

    Sklar Legendary Member

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    DJG, vote for me!
     
  12. 1BiGG1

    1BiGG1 Experimental Member

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    Unfortunately for the ObamaBot’s their leader has them sold on nothing but a bunch of cheap sound-bites like Blowjob Billy did. They don’t need any facts or previous track record.

    P.S. Can you list for us Obama’s accomplishments while in public office lol? :biggrin1:
     
  13. mindseye

    mindseye Experimental Member

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    I'm sorry, this ObamaBot is not programmed to respond to McCainholes.
     
  14. 1BiGG1

    1BiGG1 Experimental Member

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    OK, I will answer for you = Obama's list of accomplishments while in public office = a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y n-o-t-h-i-n-g, nadda, zip, zero! Yeah, that's the kind of leader we need lol! :rolleyes:
     
  15. Industrialsize

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    If you actually believe this statement, you are woefully UNINFORMED
     
  16. 1BiGG1

    1BiGG1 Experimental Member

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    Really? Lets hear the alleged list.
     
    #16 1BiGG1, Oct 27, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2008
  17. Calboner

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    So how come Bush and Cheney are still alive?
     
  18. 1BiGG1

    1BiGG1 Experimental Member

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    Maybe because they were “conscientious” of the many dead/maimed/injured the United States suffered when defending our ally Kuwait and did something about it? Or maybe it was Saddam laughing in the faces of the dead/maimed/injured for a decade+ all the while he was shooting missiles at our jets.
     
  19. vince

    vince Legendary Member

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    1BiGG1- Still waiting for a reply to this. Your study confirms that a mistake was made in 2004.
     
  20. 1BiGG1

    1BiGG1 Experimental Member

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    I’m not seeing a mistake; we have an electoral college that says there was no mistake.
     
  21. vince

    vince Legendary Member

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    You are avoiding/changing the question.
     
  22. tripod

    tripod Legendary Member

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    Where does 1Bigg1 find this crap?
     
  23. 1BiGG1

    1BiGG1 Experimental Member

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    Not avoiding anything, we can speculate all we want on that issue but we have zero to judge by with one choice.
     
  24. vince

    vince Legendary Member

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    Thing is he's selective about his crap. When the crap doesn't fit with his agenda, he runs away from it or makes ad hom attacks. As a person he may be okay, as a debater he's a chickenshit.
     
    #24 vince, Oct 27, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2008
  25. vince

    vince Legendary Member

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    Your quoted study, which you thought highly enough of to started thread about, says that Kerry would be a better President than Bush. You can't have it both ways. Do you or do you not agree with the conclusions of your study?
     
  26. 1BiGG1

    1BiGG1 Experimental Member

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    You listed the only thing that could be listed on the subject so there is nothing for me to comment on. A prediction is kinda hard to verify when we have no evidence. For all you or anybody else knows Kerry could have gone down as the very worst or very best in the end had it happened but at this point its just speculation.

    Also, there’s more to judge one by then this prediction so you claiming this may have helped me allegedly “pick the better man” is flawed right from the get-go.
     
  27. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

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    This seems to me a bit odd.
    There's an assumption that you can tell the greatness of a president by examining his character.
    Apart from the difficulty of doing that after two centuries have passed, it seems ass backwards.
    The greatness of a president would be seen in the quality of his decisions in office and in the inspiration he was able to offer ... his effect as a leader.
    You might find a president who was undeniably great in those terms but obviously lacking in the traditional virtues.
    Perhaps Washington was the greatest human being among presidents ... I dunno.
    But in the classic top trio of him, Lincoln and FDR, I usually get the impression that Lincoln and FDR have the edge among most commentators, at least in greatness displayed as president.
    (Of course, that's just my hunch.)
     
  28. vince

    vince Legendary Member

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    Is SarahPalin writing for you now?

    If "there's more to judge one by then (sic) this prediction", then I can only conclude you don't find it very useful and I have to wonder why you wrote such a long bloody post about it.

    The fact that the authors don't have enough information to reach a conclusion about Obama, doesn't indicate one way or the other about Obama's potential.

    I bet that if they did a study on Abe Lincoln, a country lawyer who served in the Illinois state legislature and had one term as a Representative in Congress they would have also said-

    "There wasn't enough quality biography on him to do so,"
     
  29. ripsrips

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  30. mindseye

    mindseye Experimental Member

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    Um, thanks.

    Farlex Free Dictionary:

    liberalist: a person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties

    Merriam-Webster:

    liberalism: a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties

    American Heritage:

    liberalism: A political theory founded on the natural goodness of humans and the autonomy of the individual and favoring civil and political liberties, government by law with the consent of the governed, and protection from arbitrary authority.
     
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