Former interrogator rebukes Cheney's claim on torture

Discussion in 'Politics' started by mikeyh9in, May 26, 2009.

  1. mikeyh9in

    mikeyh9in Active Member

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    Former interrogator rebukes Cheney's claim on torture

    YouTube - Former Interrogator Rebukes Cheney for Torture Speech

    I think the most important point he makes is that torture is a failure of the leadership. We had two individuals who "liked" the idea of being President with absolutely *zero* leadership qualities.

    StarInvestor... please watch, I would hope you would take the word of the leader of the elite team of interrogators in Iraq over a five-time draft deferrer Dick Cheney.
     
  2. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    I watched the clip.

    To answer your question, yes I do think that this individual, who supervised over 1000 interrogations does know more about interrogations than Cheney.

    However, his opinion is that some Muslims joined the fight in Iraq simply because they saw a photo of a Muslim being tortured. I think that this is probably a stretch.

    Cheney says that the use of enhanced interrogations probably saved thousands of American lives. That is pure speculation as well.

    It was an interesting interview; the group that arranged this clip is Brave New Foundation - an extreme anti-war group. Just fyi.
     
  3. sparky11point5

    sparky11point5 New Member

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    I hope that eventually the of preponderance of evidence from actual experts convinces people that torture does not work and makes us less safe. Of course, it's immoral and un-American, but that seems to be beside the point for many people.

    Here are just a few.

    SERE Instructor:
    YouTube - Rachel Maddow Talks With A Former SERE Instructor About Waterboarding - 5/13/09

    Ali Soufan:
    YouTube - Soufan 1/6: The New Techniques Did NOT Produce Results Abu Zubaydah SHUT DOWN & STOPPED TALKING!

    Gen Petraeus (on closing Gitmo and it's role as a recruiting tool)
    Transcript: RFE/RL Interviews U.S. Central Command Chief, General David Petraeus - Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty 2009
     
  4. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    If the powers that be believe that it is not effective to use certain forms of torture; that's great. Let's use the methods that are most effective and close the lid on 'torture.'

    I really wish we could just put this to bed and move on.
     
  5. mikeyh9in

    mikeyh9in Active Member

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    Your de-emphasis of "his opinion is that some Muslims..." is not what he said... he said that the vast majority (not some) used the un-American tactic of torture as *the* reason for joining the fight against America.

    So it's a little more than speculation.

    Cheney claims are bullshit. If there was *any* evidence that his torture techiniques saved American lifes he would have leaked it already. He hides behind "oh... darn, there is mountains of evidence -- too bad you can't see it... but trust me." Bullshit, he had no problems leaking anything else he actually wanted (CIA agent names, intelligence suggesting WMD in Iraq, everything that supports his view)... so do you actually think that he would stop at leaking *anything* that would support his views now???
     
  6. D_Tully Tunnelrat

    D_Tully Tunnelrat New Member

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    Great find. So clear and concise in his explanations, all based on personal experience, and an utter refutation of Dick Cheney, who had 5 Vietnam War draft deferments.

    From the comments section, here's one that really telling...

    4,301 - the number of American deaths in Iraq
    31,285 - the number of American injuries in Iraq
    80,000 estimated Iraqi civilian war-related deaths.
    0 - number of Iraqis responsible for 9-11

    The injury numbers are staggering, especially since most of those US soldiers are still in their 20s, and will need help everyday for the rest of their lives. The number of Iraqi dead... simply numbing.
     
  7. sparky11point5

    sparky11point5 New Member

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    I see a lot of Vietnam vets as the homeless here in Boston, so I think the real toll of this war will not be known for a generation.

    I agree with your post Duc, but would point out that 80,000 Iraqis is an exceptionally low estimate. One innocent death is tragic, but the actual number might be 500,000 or even higher.

     
  8. sparky11point5

    sparky11point5 New Member

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    I don't agree, Star. We need to prevent it from happening the next time a group of cowards take office.
     
  9. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    by taking down dozens of military and executive personnel?
     
  10. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    Interrogation Torture and Abuse are Terrorists' 1# Recruitment Tool?

    What made terrorists bomb the World Trade Center in 1993?

    What made terrorists board planes on 9/11 and fly them in to the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and nearly the White House?

    What made terrorists bomb the USS Cole?

    What made Osama Bin Laden fight a Jihad and lead Al-Qaeda?

     
  11. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    good point.
     
  12. pym

    pym New Member

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    Hey Star! How come YOU are not over in Iraq or Afghanistan fighting on the ground? After all most of 'OUR' guys are on there 3rd and 4th tours of duty. How bout it FESTOR.......how come YOUR not fighting for our country. I here that the ARMY is so desperate for new recruits that they will even take a Dick-Head like you! Now is your chance to show us all what a HERO you are ! HooRay! Go get em FESTOR!
     
  13. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    The crazy farm called. How did you escape?

    :smoker:
     
  14. pym

    pym New Member

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    I take that as a "AW fuck that shit man" from you, eh Festor? Yeah......thought so. Weasly chicken-hawk. Cowardly Dick-head. Festor doesn't support the troops.
     
  15. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Oh look... the cheerleaders of Torture are on this thread.
    Give me a H... Give me an I... give me a P... give me an O... give me a C... give me an R... give me an I... give me a T... give me an E... give me an S...

    What does that spell? Just ask Trinitroll... it's his/her middle name. :rolleyes:
     
  16. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    outstanding points

    but libs are immune to reality, facts, and history


     
  17. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Classic case of rhetorical bullshit being made by the conservatives & anti-Obamites.

    Instead of talking shit, why don't any of you TRY to answer the question. You know, since us "libs" are supposed to be exempt of knowledge. Please, GO FOR IT. Why did all of those terrorist attacks happen? And please, try not to mention any particular political party (if you can).

    Give me a H... Give me an I... Give me a P... Give me a....
    You know the song already. :rolleyes:
     
  18. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    The questions aren't rhetorical. The point is...since you weren't able to comprehend it once again Vinyl. (and this was an easy one)
    No matter what your answer to the questions is, it won't be Interrogation Torture and Abuse. Then that would lead you to understand why Alexander isn't really making a salient point that refutes Cheney.
     
  19. mikeyh9in

    mikeyh9in Active Member

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    "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

    Nick, Star, others... Read the book "Blowback." (Amazon.com: Blowback, Second Edition: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire (American Empire Project): Chalmers Johnson: Books)

    It discusses in great detail the *exact* US action and the corresponding response.

    We like to portray America as the "Innocent", but we've had 5 decades of US policing the world... and in that time, we were sometimes on the wrong side -- especially when it comes to the Middle East and oil.

    There is no justification for the terrorist attacks, but if you believe it was without "reason", you need to go back to school and read up on history.

    With Gitmo, Abu Graib, etc. we have given an entirely new generation of people a reason to hate.


     
    #19 mikeyh9in, May 27, 2009
    Last edited: May 27, 2009
  20. mikeyh9in

    mikeyh9in Active Member

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    Trinity,
    Can you think outside of FoxNews? Wow.

    Each of the previous attacks had their own explanation of American hate... some opposed the occupation of Saudi Arabia by US military, some were retaliation for the support of Israel, ...

    What is your point?

    We now gave them the biggest, most personal reason for any Muslim to join up *against* America. If you saw/heard of your cousin being tortured by Islamic Fundamentalist because he was Christian... would you be outraged?? Well, imagine an empty desert, void of any real industry, where *the* only real thing in your live was your religion and imagine what young, impressionable men would be convinced of doing.

    Get it??

     
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