France and United States... well...

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Ralexx, Jul 1, 2005.

  1. Ralexx

    Ralexx Member

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    I cannot get it...
    So, presumably, France and United States detest each other. Deeply, profoundly, etc., we saw it in 2003, etc, etc, etc...

    However, French are buying American bread, they don't say no to a "hambourger" ; French gay are in love with American gays ("les hunky Américains"), French gay buy DVDs "made in America" and like a veeery lot the US gym-kings, etc ...

    Meanwhile, Paris is ***full*** with American tourists. I mean full ... !!! Laughing, visiting, eating, speaking, every minute, every day, in every corner, while American gays indulge themselves with dinners in Le Marais (the gay area in Paris) and with some cute French muscle.

    How does it come ? I mean, well, ya know, the legend says these two countries are at odds... Yeah, right... B)
     
  2. Dr Rock

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    who lives in the east 'neath the willow tree? Sex
    as usual with these things, there are small but very noisy groups of people in both countries who don't like the other one for whatever reason. the remaining 98% of their respective populations really don't care.
     
  3. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
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    Good ol' Tip said "All politics is local."

    So, as long as those two guys at the top are content to throw pies at each other, we'll continue to go on our merry ways, enjoying the fact that the people of France are folks just like us.

    They just talk funny.
     
  4. prepstudinsc

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    I'm going to France in September for a week. One of my friends is going to France for three weeks and he leaves in about 10 days--he's dating someone from Paris.
    At this point, I think it's the leaders who hate each other, I think the general public doesn't care all that much.
     
  5. Ralexx

    Ralexx Member

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    ... my point exactly !
     
  6. BobLeeSwagger

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    The two countries have been ambivalent towards each other since the beginning, and sometimes it's more or less trendy to bash the other. Even when relations are strong, there tend to be rhetorical barbs. During the Clinton administration, Chirac once said that the position of "leader of the free world" is vacant.
     
  7. SpeedoGuy

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    I couldn't imagine two leaders I'd more like to see stuck on a deserted island with each other than Bush and Chirac.

    I was in Alsace in December. Beautiful snowy countryside.

    I always thought France bashing was the sport of simpletons. I'm glad to see so many American tourists seem to share that sentiment.

    SG
     
  8. jonb

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    The general public doesn't care. It just happens the fanatics are in power in the U.S.
     
  9. madame_zora

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    And another of the MANY ways that the fanatics don't represent the views of the majority here.
     
  10. lacsap1

    lacsap1 New Member

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    The main problem with France, notwithstanding its self-description as a democracy, is that since long before Agincourt it has been run by it's "nobility". Just who happens to be "nobility" in any given era has changed across the centuries, but the system has not. They only changed who "was" nobility.
    In the Fifth Republic the nobility are primarily intellectuals and bureaucrates. The intersection of those two is to be found in the ENA ' l"Ecole Nationale d'Aministration'. You won't make it if you didn't visit this school. Its graduates are the modern nobility in France.

    France is in particularly grave condition at present because the nobility have sought to impose a secular socialism that doesn't work well. France is headed to a big problem in Europe. It's love affair with socialism only magnifies it's perennially besetting problem, stikes, blockages and to strong unions makes the world crazy and costing millions.

    On the other hand, mothers swell with pride saying "Mon fils est bureacrate" (my son is a bureacrat) ... so France is on a road to nowhere and will continually try to undermine the succes of Europe and the rest of the world.

    The French nobility destest cowboy G.W. (as they did Ronald R.) because such men do not toady and respect this nobility at all.

    Most French do not believe in basic equality, that all people are created equal. Its political tradition starts with the premise that anything French is civilization, the rest of the world are classified by how French-like they behave in varying degrees of barbarism. In France, the working classes accept their lowly positions to the elites, but exercise their power through Unions and recieve protection from socialist elites running the government.

    Also the first thing what France should do is buy some air conditionings. It's unbelievable that 20.000 people should die because it's too hot during last summer !!
     
  11. MisterMark

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    I think the people who see Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage as some sort of spiritual leaders probably hate France just because they're told that they should.
     
  12. BobLeeSwagger

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    The fact that so many people believe whatever Limbaugh, etc., says bothers me far more than the fact that they're successful. I can understand an agitator being popular. I can even understand listening to someone you don't agree with just because you like getting riled up. But I find it disturbing that so many people just believe what they hear.
     
  13. SpeedoGuy

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    Agreed. That's what I meant about knee-jerk France bashing being the sport of simpletons.

    When I see my fellow Americans labelling the French "surrender monkeys" or pouring expensive French wines into the gutter I just have to roll my eyes away in embarrassment. Why the sudden hatred of France? Easy! AM hate radio shows.

    Like you, I am disturbed that so many people take at face value whatever some windbag on AM hate radio spews.

    SG
     
  14. madame_zora

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    How quickly hate mongering catches on amoung the weak minded who have hidden inferiority complexes. These people are just so sick and sad.
     
  15. Ralexx

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    Add la Polythechnique. But they are not nobility. One simply calls them "élites" ; the similarities with the 'Old Régime' are minor... And from a political point of view, they often are real "élites".

    Not them. It's just the people. Everyone is attracted to socialism (an idea that I find totally absurd!). Strikes are a national sport. Hate this. Blame them. They know it.

    Hate this too. France is screwing up its future. Unless they change the "régime" and mentality. Hmm... you know, Latin nations and governance...

    No, not at all, it's not that. One does not personnaly detest "cowboy GW" for what he is, but for what he does, and the way he does it.

    And that is because there is no basic equality. Equality does not exist. Basic examples : is America equal to Bhutan ? Is a fir-tree equal to a mushroom ? Structural differences will always engender unequal things, situations, opportunities, etc. We are all born equal : in needs, but not in deeds. Later, everything is up to one's skills and talents. It's simple, it's called Nature.

    True. And totally unglorious for a country like France. I do accuse the French of being too restrictive, capricious and promoting a disreputable narrowmindedness towards the "non-Frenchness". "France et quelque chose autour", France and something around it. But I also understand the sources of this cultural arrogance... and I cannot but admire what France culturally produced in the last 1200 years.

    No, no. 20 000 is a n° probably published by a famously anti-French and anti-European American magazine, "The Weekly Standard". 'Only' 9000 deaths in 2003. Last summer, they were prepared. This summer too.

    Anyway... the so-called Franco-American animosity is mostly a creation of the governments. There are moments when the "grandeur"s of the two nations collide. But the substance of these conflicts, except for political, lacks.

    By the way : HAPPY BIRTHDAY AMERICA !
     
  16. BobLeeSwagger

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    Considering his pedigree, GWB is about the closest thing this country has to political nobility.
     
  17. headbang8

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    Considering his pedigree, GWB is about the closest thing this country has to political nobility.
    [post=326517]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/b][/quote]
    With no belief in noblesse oblige
     
  18. jonb

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    Actually, the Reagans and Bushes are the closest thing America has to nobility. Or at least they were. There was a coronation of Sun Myung Moon in the Senate last year.
     
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