Fred Phelps church being sued . . . FINALLY!

HazelGod

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Like others I am very torn on this issue.

I guess my concern is that they are being berated by the press, not for their methodolgy, but for their message. I ask everyone to consider this. Would you be more sympathetic to them if they were war protesters instead of anti-gay activists? When I asked myself that question, I found that I was, in fact, more sympathetic and that disturbed me.

Before you get your panties in a wad over this nutjob, do a little reading on "Free Speech Zones" and then tell us where the real threat to free expression rests.
 

catman

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BUT my mentioning it/discussing it here, are we only giving more attention/ego to this (for lack of a beter word) moron?

If we ignored him WOULD he go away? (I doubt it...) just makes you wonder why kind of bitterness and hatred would DRIVE a man to do this...60 member church? They spent their own money to fly all over the country... What is his control over this 60? Cult of personality?
 

D_Martin van Burden

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Well, he DID just take a $2.9 million ding. Never mind that even on my most spiritual day, I couldn't condone the whole lot of hate-filth spewing out of their mouths. I'm not very religious, but I continue to fail to understand why some of the biggest loudmouths representing Christianity have to spread all the hatefulness. How can you expect to convert people? I know, I know; it can be done. The "fear" is real. It's still bothersome to know that Jesus' message was so much more helpful, honest, and embracing than these fucks let on.
 

Sklar

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I'm curious as to how this man and his daughters were ordained. Did they get an actual degree from an accredited college or did they go on line and pay a few dollars and suddenly became ordained ala the internet?

If they were ordained through an actual church, can the church recind that?
 

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Anti-gay church must pay Marine's father $11 million

Associated Press
Published on: 10/31/07


Baltimore — A grieving father won a nearly $11 million verdict Wednesday against a fundamentalist Kansas church that pickets military funerals out of a belief that the war in Iraq is a punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.
Albert Snyder of York, Pa., sued the Westboro Baptist Church for unspecified damages after members demonstrated at the March 2006 funeral of his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, a Marine who was killed in Iraq.

Associated Press
The Rev. Fred Phelps of the Kansas-based Westboro Baptist Church demonstrates in downtown Baltimore on Wednesday.

The jury first awarded $2.9 million in compensatory damages. It returned in the afternoon with its decision to award $6 million in punitive damages for invasion of privacy and $2 million for causing emotional distress.

Snyder's attorney, Craig Trebilcock, had urged jurors to determine an amount "that says don't do this in Maryland again. Do not bring your circus of hate to Maryland again."

Church members routinely picket funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs such as "Thank God for dead soldiers" and "God hates fags."

A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests, and Congress has passed a law prohibiting such protests at federal cemeteries. But the Maryland lawsuit is believed to be the first filed by the family of a fallen serviceman.

The church and three of its leaders — the Rev. Fred Phelps and his two daughters, Shirley Phelps-Roper and Rebecca Phelps-Davis, 46 — were found liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict emotional distress.

Even the size of the award for compensating damages "far exceeds the net worth of the defendants," according to financial statements filed with the court, U.S. District Judge Richard Bennett noted.
Snyder claimed the protests intruded upon what should have been a private ceremony and sullied his memory of the event.

The church members testified they are following their religious beliefs by spreading the message that soldiers are dying because the nation is too tolerant of homosexuality.

Their attorneys maintained in closing arguments Tuesday that the burial was a public event and that even abhorrent points of view are protected by the First Amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech and religion.

Earlier, church members staged a demonstration outside the federal courthouse. Church founder Fred Phelps held a sign reading "God is your enemy," while Shirley Phelps-Roper stood on an American flag. Members of the group sang "God Hates America" to the tune of "God Bless America."

 

MH07

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Re: the LAWS against protests at public gatherings:

Much as it pains me to say it (inasmuch as I wish Fred Phelps and his whole clan would just die and burn in Hell), the Constitution protects Freedom of Speech.

That means speech that I don't like. Speech that offends me, from people that I detest.

It's kind of like the Bushies and their being upset at the Iraqi's---we go over there and give them FREEDOM, BABY! So they promptly USE their freedom to elect---the SHIITES! The ones who are antithtical to the Bushies, and it just chapped the Bushies' asses.

You can't have it both ways. Either there is freedom or there is not.

Freedom is definitely a two-edged sword.


(Now, had the grieving Dad gone and gotten his shotgun and blown Phelps' head off, I'd have called that a "Public Service").(and, since this is a suit in civil court, the only thing disappointing to me about the size of the verdict is that it is FAR too small. I hope this empowers the other people whose funerals have been disrupted to sue the fuck out of the Phelps clan as well. Of course, the Phelpses will just file bankruptcy and vacate the judgements...).
 

rexcasual

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Sweet. That Phelps crew must be spinning in their sheets now that God has seen fit to punish their church yet again for taking his name in vain, by giving that witch the winning lottery ticket for 49 million dollars!

The Raw Story | Wiccan lottery winner plans to open witch school

The punchlines keep getting wilder and wilder. The Creator really has a penchant for over-the-top humour, doncha think? :tongue:
 

joejack

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Obtaining a judgement and collecting on it are two very different affairs. Can you squeeze blood from a turnip?
 

nakedwally

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Much as it pains me to say it (inasmuch as I wish Fred Phelps and his whole clan would just die and burn in Hell), the Constitution protects Freedom of Speech.

That means speech that I don't like. Speech that offends me, from people that I detest.

It's kind of like the Bushies and their being upset at the Iraqi's---we go over there and give them FREEDOM, BABY! So they promptly USE their freedom to elect---the SHIITES! The ones who are antithtical to the Bushies, and it just chapped the Bushies' asses.

You can't have it both ways. Either there is freedom or there is not.

Freedom is definitely a two-edged sword.


(Now, had the grieving Dad gone and gotten his shotgun and blown Phelps' head off, I'd have called that a "Public Service").

Yes the constitution protects freedom of speech, but have you personally seen one of their riots? I have. I don't think the constitution protects physical violence. A few years back they picketed a school in Florida and they actually threw rocks screaming "God hates fags". A friend of mine was severely injured and ended up in the hospital for 3 days.
 

MH07

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Yes the constitution protects freedom of speech, but have you personally seen one of their riots? I have. I don't think the constitution protects physical violence. A few years back they picketed a school in Florida and they actually threw rocks screaming "God hates fags". A friend of mine was severely injured and ended up in the hospital for 3 days.

Throwing rocks is not a "Protest". It is an "Assault". It can be "Assault with a deadly weapon". These are CRIMINAL ACTS.

I wish your friend had sued Phelps and co. as this family did, in civil court for damages.

Screaming, that's a protest.

As a gay person, as I said before, I hope Phelps and his clan rot in Hell. Fuck them and their beliefs.

As an American, we can't pick and choose which speech is "free". Either it all is (no matter how offensive), or none of it is.
 

Principessa

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I will have to find the correct news site but someone equated what the Phelp's organization does at military funerals with yelling "fire" in a crowded theater.

I think the 11 million dollars was larger than probably warranted but also very necessary. The judge probably wanted to send a message to Phelp's and other organizations like his.
 

the_reverend

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halle-fuckin-lujah! these people are such asshats.

and i'm all about the First Amendment, but your freedoms end where another person's begin. and while it may not be strictly constitutionally protected, i'd say the freedom to mourn the loss of your child while serving his country (regardless of the cause) supercedes Phelps and his ilk's freedom to act like un-Christian jackasses on the sidewalk outside.
 

agnslz

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The only way to go after people nowadays is in their wallets. I think they deserve a whole lot more than they got. They've held their hideous protests a few times in my state, and they've caused disruption each time. I'd like to see the localities (especially the ones outside of their home area) go after them for the extra money spent on police protection, etc. whenever their merry band rolls into town solely to cause disruption at these funerals.
 

AlteredEgo

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Obtaining a judgement and collecting on it are two very different affairs. Can you squeeze blood from a turnip?

While they may never be able to collect the full amount, they can potntially ruin those people financially. They will never be able to get a line of credit again, every penny of non-passive income can be subject to liens, any real property can be seized and sold (I think) and it never gets any better for them financially until the amount is paid in full. With no money, they may have to slow down their campaigning. And even if the church does some serious fundraising, other suits will come about, and the debt will ever increase.

Some people see this as an attack on free speech, I do not. If you look at the wording, they aren't being condemned for their views, or for what they say. Rather their intended impact on their victims is what has been decried. Seems fine to me. As someone else said, it is parallel to the other types of speech not protected by the constitution.