Free will vs determinism

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Axcess, Dec 8, 2009.

?

Free will or determinism ? What are you ?

  1. I believe in free will

    14 vote(s)
    77.8%
  2. I'm determinist

    4 vote(s)
    22.2%
  1. Axcess

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    Yeah I'm bored right now . So let's kill time here .
    Let's rehash the old debate of free will vs determinism .
    What do you guys believe ? Free will or determinism ?
    I'm a determinist , so I don't believe that we act with total freedom and I don't believe that our lives are shaped only according to our actions . I will give some examples :
    We don't choose to be born at all .
    We don't choose our family and friends .
    We don't choose our childhood experiences that mostly shape our lives later when we are adults.
    We don't choose other people actions . The actions of other people often affects our lives .
    We don't choose to born female or male
    We don't choose our sexual orientation.
    We mostly don't choose our deaths . Yes some people kill themselves but mostly because some factor affects their decision to end their lives . ( Like depression , other mental illness etc)

    To the people here that believe in free will . How you can show that free will is real ?
     
    #1 Axcess, Dec 8, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2009
  2. Fleur

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    I don't believe we act with full free will...if I did I'm sure I'd do a lot less self-sabotaging. It doesn't matter if I know my actions with mess things up in my head, somehow I still follow through with messing them up...doing it right now in fact in some situations in my life.
     
  3. B_bi_mmf

    B_bi_mmf New Member

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    If someone had complete knowledge of everything in the cosmos up to the present moment, then that person could predict what I will do in the next moment. In that sense I am determinist.

    The concept of free will seems to me to reduce to randomness.

    Anyway, I don't feel that determinism detracts from our humanity in any way. And, of course, we need to hold people responsible for their actions in order to have a society.
     
    #3 B_bi_mmf, Dec 8, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2009
  4. Drifterwood

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    How do I know if my opinion on this is really my own?
     
  5. Pendlum

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    I think your concept of free will is wrong, I don't think of free will is the ability to do or decide anything. I think free will is the ability to choose from a scope of actions/what have you that has been limited by the many many factors we don't control. Free will also doesn't guarantee that you will pick the best course of action, if there even is one.
     
  6. Axcess

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    Ok I will give a brief definition of free will to you .
    The apparent human hability of making choices that are not externally determined .THE ABILITY OF MAKING A CHOICE WITHOUT COERCION OR WITHOUT EXTERNAL AGENCIES. You can find the definition of this concept everywhere on net.
     
  7. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

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    I don't believe in either, I think our lives are shaped by how we react to a mixture of random events and circumstances, and events and circumstances we have engineered ourselves.

    The range of things you describe as predetermined is arguable to, I mean ultimately one can choose who one's family and friends are, and just because people generally don't kill themselves does not mean that they d not choose when they dies, it simply means they choose to allow nature or circumstance to decide for them when they will die.

    I don't maintain that free-will exists in opposition to determinism, merely that the two are in fact in constant interaction with one another in everyday life, forming the pattern of one's life.
     
  8. Pendlum

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    Fine, I'll edit my statement a little. I think the accepted definition of free will is wrong, and stupid. If you believe the act of observing something changes it's state (something that is commonly accepted as a truth), you cannot believe in free will how you defined it for me.
     
  9. D_Relentless Original

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    Similar to a degree, although the way the world is rapidly changing;free will will be a thing of the past especially around own opinions and viewpoints, example of Big Brother coming into effect.

    I don't believe that saying "Lifes what you make it". it only needs one person actions to change how your life is going to be.
     
  10. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    I also believe it's a mixture; free will gives us a range of movement in which to act upon that which has been determined.
     
  11. D_Relentless Original

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    Cool answer ^ What he said.:rolleyes:
     
  12. molotovmuffin

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    I think we have free will to make our choices, which effect our choices later. Sorta like coming to a cross road, make a decision to go right, left or straight ahead only to have the make another set of decisions based on the ones you previously made.
     
  13. vince

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    Yes. It's like a game of chess. The rules are set (determined), but within those rules, billions of possible games can be played. Your choices are as limited as you choose to believe they are.
     
  14. B_curiousme01

    B_curiousme01 New Member

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    Great thread. Well, I define 'Free Will' as just that. It is something we are all born with that allows us to move through life with the ability to react (or not) to our life experiences. I would also say that Free Will, in its most primitive nature, begins in the womb. Cells multiply (okay - do cells have free will? Yep. I think they do...I'll go here and make an arm, or maybe an ear, or should I go???), baby takes shape. Baby begins to have a heartbeat and body. Suddenly, baby realizes that it's hungry and confined in a tiny place, it can move around, kick and pound...exerting free will.
    What matters, in the end I guess, is how we decide to use it in our own lives and in those we interact with.

    Okay, having said all that, I think we are all superhuman computers anyways and Free Will is sorta like the "Enter" button. Push it or not to exert your free will and move on :)
     
  15. SilverTrain

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    Chickens, eggs................yin and yang...........the inner light and the unity of all things revealed in psychadelic catharsis....................................

    Yeah, philosophy class was fun.

    So often, no "right" answers.
     
  16. Astrate

    Astrate New Member

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    What about internal agencies like intuition, automated reactive thinking, desire, hatred, conscience. This will heavily influence your choice and give you the feeling you have made a free choice
     
  17. Bbucko

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    Vince and Nick8 have summarized my philosophy quite nicely, though I'm somewhat more of a fatalist than they are. The older I get the less certain I become of anything, however.
     
  18. BigDallasDick8x6

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    We don't choose our friends??
     
  19. ruffboy

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    good to see free will winning in a landslide so far
     
  20. D_Tilly_De_Toilet

    D_Tilly_De_Toilet New Member

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