free will

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by B_8 incher, Nov 5, 2007.

?

Do you guys believe in free will?

Poll closed Mar 4, 2008.
  1. yea free will is very real

    22 vote(s)
    73.3%
  2. nope is an illusion

    5 vote(s)
    16.7%
  3. i dont know

    3 vote(s)
    10.0%
  1. B_8 incher

    B_8 incher New Member

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    Iam determinist i dont believe in free will . That humans have total control of their lives with their actions . To me free will isnt more than a illusion
    What do you guys think ? i would expect that a great mayority will say that free will is real.
     
  2. B_lillothomas9

    B_lillothomas9 New Member

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    i believe that to some extent our actions shape our lives but to some extent we dont have control of the outcomes of some things that happen to us
     
  3. SpoiledPrincess

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    Although I don't believe in God I do believe in destiny/fate but I believe we're subject to destiny but we also have free will - destiny presents you with a certain choice but we have the free will how to react to it, the decision we make isn't predetermined.
     
  4. No_Strings

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    I chose not to answer this poll. Or did I?
     
  5. B_8 incher

    B_8 incher New Member

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    YEP BUT THE REAL QUESTION IS WHAT FACTORS INFLUENCE IN YOUR DECISION OF NOT TO VOTE .THAT IS THE REAL QUESTION .WE MAKE CHOICES BUT IF THOSE CHOICES ARE INFLUENCE BY SOME FACTORS YOU DONT MAKE THAT CHOICE COMPLETELY FREE
     
  6. Belly_Dancer

    Belly_Dancer Member

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    I definitely think free will exists, but there is a difference between will and ability.

    Here is an example:

    If I were a paraplegic, with my free will, I could theoretically choose to get up and walk. However, because of a damaged nervous system, the signal of my choice would not make it from my brain to my legs, and I would remain in the wheelchair.

    Fortunately, the ways in which I've been limited weren't as devastating as paraplegia (and I mean absolutely no minimization or offense to anyone who suffers from it).

    But many of us are paralyzed in other aspects of our lives. Low self-esteem can cripple an individual emotionally. Skewed beliefs about ourselves, others, God, or the world can make us feel trapped and hopeless. Mental illnesses such as depression can keep us held in limbo for years, even though our choice would not be to remain depressed.

    In my past, I have done some self-destructive things, and stayed too long in some painful situations. I did so because of emotional wounds from my childhood and beyond, skewed beliefs, and chemical problems with my brain.

    I've always wanted a happy life, but I did not have the tools to have one until I gained clarity in my view of the world, and gained enough recovery from the hurts of my childhood that although they still affect me, they don't incapacitate me.

    Some would say that because I created a painful environment for myself to live in after having grown up in one, I didn't have free choice -- that my emotional conditions took away my ability to choose.

    I don't think it took away the ability to choose; rather, I think it took away the ability to carry out that choice. For years, I knew my choice, if unencumbered by other factors, would be to create a different life for myself, but I lacked the tools to do it. I never lacked the will.
     
  7. the_reverend

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    everything is connected, but in the end we are free and HAVE to be free to choose. other factors may influence our choices and series of events may impact us in such a way that we never see the invisible hands of causality at work, but it is still WE who make the choice and ultimately we who have to take responsibility for those choices. even those who would hand over their free will and decision making to authority figures or blind faith have made their choice and are not absolved of their responsibility.

    or was it writ in the dusty pages of the ancient Book of Destiny that i would always write that, even before time itself began? ;)
     
  8. ManiacalMadMan

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    Those who believe it exists are going to say it does and if they do not believe in it existing then those will say it does not I believe there is a strong amount of free will but some things come from beyond us which serve to direct us and this can not ever be changed since all things are part of a greater amount of space and universes and galaxies which offer in to our being some of our thinking process according to what we have when reacting In the end which may not exist either free will is only partially real.
     
  9. IntoxicatingToxin

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    I believe very stronly in free will.
     
  10. HazelGod

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    I believe that we shape our own paths through this world by force (or lack) of will. Each of us is responsible for what happens to us in life...determinism, IMO, is a crutch similar to religion that people use in an attempt to shirk their personal responsibility.

    Damn, it's nice to see you again, girl...you've been sorely missed around here.
     
  11. B_tallbig

    B_tallbig New Member

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    albert einsteisn was a determinist as so other scientists and philosophers.

    i believe that our lives can be shaped in a limited way by our actions and choices but we dont have complete control of our lives i would give you few examples:
    we don choose to be born

    we don choose our parents

    we dont choose in where we will grow in our childhood

    we dont choose our brothers and sisters or if will be the only son.

    we dont choose how and when we will die

    even the persons that commited suicide arent make making the choice to kill themselfs completely free because they are suffering with depression
    we dont choose if we are born good looking average or ugly

    we dont choose our height
    we dont choose what other people do or decide to do
    ( very often other people actions do affect us in our lives in a huge way)

    we dont choose our sexual orientation . Some people argue that being gay or straight or bi etc is a choice of the person but i dont think so
     
  12. No_Strings

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    YES, I GRAPSED THAT CONCEPT BEFORE I EVEN OPENED THIS THREAD, NO NEED TO SHOUT.
     
  13. viking1

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    Free will to some extent, but certainly not entirely.
     
  14. JustAsking

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    Yes, and don't forget addiction.

    This is a good post, tallbig. I agree with all of this except for the notion of scientific determinism. I would say that classical physics implies complete determinism at the fundamental level, but that doesn't translate well to the affairs of people in the world. The chain of causality in a highly complex system is so unfathomable that it might as well not be deterministic. Interestingly, the oldest book in the Bible, Job, says the same thing about what determines our fate. God's answer to Job is basically, "Shit happens." Its more of a Taoist "straw dogs" philosophy than a Christian one.
     
  15. B_tallbig

    B_tallbig New Member

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    yea i forgot about addiction . albert eisntein determinism dont rule out that we have the ability to make choices but but those choices are very limited because like a 8 incher say our choices are always influence by others factors or variables
     
  16. D_Kay_Sarah_Sarah

    D_Kay_Sarah_Sarah Account Disabled

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    Its an illusion. No society can survive with such a system

    Free will = Anarchy
     
  17. B_tallbig

    B_tallbig New Member

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    That is true, and very true and dont forget the fact that we dont make choices completley free without a influence of some factor
     
  18. DC_DEEP

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    Lee, I think you misunderstood the question. Free will doesn't mean "do as you please." It means "do you make your choices, or do your choices make you?"

    I like to use the example of street gangs in Los Angeles. A determinist who grows up poor in a bad neighborhood in LA would reason, "I don't really have a choice. I have to join a gang, because of the environmental factors of my upbringing." A free will thinker would reason, "I can take the easy way, join a gang, and blame my choices on my fate; or I can do whatever I have to, to get out of this situation, and make my life better."

    Yes, determinism may limit your choices, but it doesn't always eliminate choices. Every person is free to make those choices, for whatever his reasoning may be.
     
  19. tiggerpoo

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    A great post. What an intellegent and sexy woman you are. I could eat you babe.
     
  20. B_tallbig

    B_tallbig New Member

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    Determinism dont limit our choices . we can make a lot a of choices but that choices arent free of external or internal influences of factors and variables.
     
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