Freedom of Speech = Death

[midlifebear]

I will ask again, since nobody seems to have the cojones to face the question:
What is the call to action?

Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that I've bought off on your assertion that there are legions of Muslims around the world who hate me and want me dead. What would you have us do?

Well, if you were a sweet spirit in Ewetaw, you'd build an armed bunker, load up a 2.5 year supply of food, water, and a means to generate your own electricity and hide. That's exactly what some of my relatives who refuse to acknowledge me have done.

(Sorry, HazelGod, I'm not stalking you. Really, I'm not. However, the previous paragraph is, sadly, very true.):tongue:

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Seriously. To think there is so much hang up on the Christian right (which is getting weaker by the decade), yet a truer threat exists, yet there's much "freedom of their beliefs" and/or "we need to make nice". What else did the entire country of Denmark do to cause such outrage/threats?

Well, I , for one, am very much up in arms over the West's pandering to the threats over the cartoon...
The proper response would have been for every paper and magazine in the free world to print the cartoons on their front pages as large as life, all on the same day.

However, you are totally wrong about the muslim extremists being the truer threat.


It wasn't Muslims that acceeded to the threat to not publish the cartoons... it was christian apologists, LIKE THE POPE< who agreed that printing the cartoons was blasphemy.

See, the Christians actually SUPPORT muslim extremism, because the Muslims are defending their delusional beliefs... and the greater goal of defending the validity of delusion belief systems is what drives the Christians to defend these acts of censorship.


Furthermore.... it was home grown Christians who put Bush in power, Christians who were the staunchest supporters of the war, Christians who have overwritten habeus corpus and eliminated the right to free speech, to due process, Christians who sanctioned torture and phone tapping ( the Justice department was salted with 150 BIBLE school graduates)

Christian who have been trying to re-write America's secular triumph and retroactively turn the continental congress into some kind of bible study group...

And, especially, today, in these troubled economic times...
Christians who actively undermine science education in a country entirely dependent upon science and technology for our economic health.

Our economy this past few decades has been based upon the spectacular growth of electronics, computers and other high tech devices.
These technologies were entirely the result of government investment in raw research into quantum physics in the 40s 50s and 60s...

Well... that ride is over...
The NEXT big economic engine of prosperity is going to be Biotechnology.
And it is gonna make the electronics industry look like chump change. Cause, y'know, a lot of folks want an iPod... But EVERYBODY wants to live longer.

And guess what homegrown group of fascist assholes has prevented the US from being a leader in this field?

That's right... Christians.

We have a huge army and terrific weapons with which to defend ourselves from the few thousand militant muslim extremists spread all over the world...

We have NO defense against the tens of millions of Christian idiots here at home... who can vote.


Truth be told, all the terrorists did was flatten two buildings and kill a few thousand people.

It took AMERICANS to shred our constitution and strip from us the rights we supposedly seek to preserve...


The Allies did not destroy Germany and Japan... Hitler and Tojo and their armies of true believes did.

The biggest threat to any nation is ALWAYS internal.


The biggest threat to American freedom, to American prestige and respect, to the American, and thence the world's, economy, are the fundamentalist Christians and the moderate Christians who refuse to denounce them out of solidarity with issues of "faith".

ITs time to STOP respecting people's "beliefs" in dangerous malarky just because you believe in a milder form of malarky.

Time to leave behind second century ideas of morality and law and move into the future without regard to what magical sky daddy will think.

Time to be intolerant of fascist mentalities of ANY stripe.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance...
...not vigilance aimed outward at others nearly so much as vigilance aimed at ourselves.

 

[HazelGod]

Well, if you were a sweet spirit in Ewetaw, you'd build an armed bunker, load up a 2.5 year supply of food, water, and a means to generate your own electricity and hide. That's exactly what some of my relatives who refuse to acknowledge me have done.

(Sorry, HazelGod, I'm not stalking you. Really, I'm not. However, the previous paragraph is, sadly, very true.):tongue:

No, I'm glad to see an answer, MLB...even one delivered tongue-in-cheek. It gets a bit tiresome being repeatedly harangued with gloom and doom prognostications, all of which are absent even any pretense of resolution.

If you're going to cry that the sky is falling, at least offer up a fucking clue where the nearest shelter might be.

 

[Ethyl]

I will ask again, since nobody seems to have the cojones to face the question:
What is the call to action?

Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that I've bought off on your assertion that there are legions of Muslims around the world who hate me and want me dead. What would you have us do?

I have my doubts the OP wanted a well-rounded discussion about the topic. He posted about a two-year old incident, baited us "libtards" on this site with the usual rhetoric, and is primed to eventually call us all hypocrites for espousing religious tolerance towards muslims (whom he's pointed out are clearly the antagonists) while denouncing the Christian right. BFY (Big fucking yawn) How predictable is this?

This is what happens when you find a staunch republican in the Bay Area. They enjoy thinking they're the maverick, underdog, rogue, whatever. Ooh, how subversive.

 

[vince]

An individual act of criminal behavior does not equate to a dogma that extolls subjugation of women, and cruelty, and claims that God requires it. Enough with the moral equivalency.

"Unfortunately either the radicals have intimidated others, or radicalism has grown exponentially stronger since that particular point of view has assumed ascendancy as a moving force within that world."

Here on the ground, living in culture that is 99&#37; Muslim, I don&#8217;t feel that the average person is radicalized and hates the west. They disagree with the Iraq war, they are offended political depictations of the Prophet Muhammad and they don&#8217;t like the cultural and economic hegemony of the west, but irregardless of what you see in the media, they DO NOT wish death to America. I have lived in only one Muslim country, but I have traveled to five others. I have never felt hatred from anyone on the street. I don&#8217;t say it doesn&#8217;t exist. I do think that it is over exaggerated in the minds of many westerners.

&#8220;And what is it about moderate Muslims that would make them feel offended by a mere cartoon published in a northern European country? Are they forced to read Danish newspapers in the Middle East?&#8221;

Come on&#8230; those cartoons were seen around the world. There is such a thing as the internet you know. In the belief of Muslims, the Prophet transmitted the direct words of God. These are very devout people and Muhammad is their connection to God. It is more than a &#8220;mere&#8221; cartoon. It is a direct affront to their core beliefs.

&#8220;So, death to the west, and death to cartoonists is an appropriate response?&#8221;

I didn&#8217;t say that. I said I didn&#8217;t blame them for being offended.

&#8220;Since when is drawing a cartoon an act of intolerance? Intolerance is rioting and calling for death of cartoonists.&#8221;

Both are intolerant.

&#8220;An individual act of criminal behavior does not equate to a dogma that extolls subjugation of women, and cruelty, and claims that God requires it. Enough with the moral equivalency.&#8221;

[FONT=&quot]People who live in glass houses shouldn&#8217;t throw stones.[/FONT]

 

[_avg_]

Bad blood will out.

 

[JustAsking]

I find it compelling, no sad, that most Americans aren't reacting and outraged at the response of many Muslims (nee Bin Laden) to the Danish cartoon drawings. You are still in denial, if you think it's Iraq that has these ppl pissed off, you are in denial if you think "reaching across the aisle" and "change and hope" is our number one priority. For anyone here who is not 100/0 and not abstinent unless married... they want you and your lifestyle dead. Do any of you get that? Seriously. To think there is so much hang up on the Christian right (which is getting weaker by the decade), yet a truer threat exists, yet there's much "freedom of their beliefs" and/or "we need to make nice". What else did the entire country of Denmark do to cause such outrage/threats?

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/mohhamad_tee_shirt.jpg


It was/is a political satire cartoon.


Outrage at Cartoons Still Tests the Danes - New York Times

face,
Let me see if I have this straight. You think that one country's offended reaction to the actions of another country is bad. So you recommend the USA be offended by the actions of another country?

Do I have that right?

 

[dong20]

Huh? You mean that stuff that ran about 2 years ago? Most Americans can't even remember who won the Oscar for best actor and that just happend a month ago. Do you seriously expect us to be upset about that, after all this time?

Pay attention NJ.

I imagine FK posted this because Bin Laden (you know who he is right?) was threatening retribution for those cartoons yesterday. And a Danish paper republished one a month back - the very one linked to in the OP in fact.

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | New 'Bin Laden tape' threatens EU
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ED5D9DB3-BC76-4BFA-B562-1D1AF6E36BBA.htm

He was only threatening the EU so it's nice to see (for once) FK recognising the world outside his window. You should try it instead of falling back on tired stereotypes, you might learn something.:tongue:

I will ask again, since nobody seems to have the cojones to face the question:
What is the call to action?

Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that I've bought off on your assertion that there are legions of Muslims around the world who hate me and want me dead. What would you have us do?

Lacking the cojones? Come on HG, get over yourself. The question was asked before you showed up, albeit in a leading manner. As for obtaining a (reasoned) answer, don't hold your breath. On the other hand, count to 500, slowly?:wink:

 

[dong20]

As for Turkey in general, I do have a mostly postive view of it. I would (kind of) consider visiting it.

Mostly positive, that sounds so clinical.

You should go. Turkey is great, at least the little bits I saw were, as were the Turkish people. Don't believe what you read on Internet, experience it for yourself. Form an experiential opinion.:biggrin1:

 

[Lex]

I will ask again, since nobody seems to have the cojones to face the question:
What is the call to action?

Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that I've bought off on your assertion that there are legions of Muslims around the world who hate me and want me dead. What would you have us do?

What would face have me do when there are plenty of AMERICANS who feel the same way about me just because I am gay?

 

[dong20]

What would face have me do when there are plenty of AMERICANS who feel the same way about me just because I am gay?

Pretend you don't exist, for now at least? One enemy at a time, Lex.

On the subject of time; It's 22:00>Cue the Sarah Connor Chronicles.

 

[HazelGod]

Come on HG, get over yourself.

Never gonna happen...Leo and all, ya know? :biggrin1:

I saw you threw out the lead, but I laid the question out open-ended...not that I was holding my breath for reasoned answers, but just on the off-chance the OP or anyone subsequently parroting his message felt they had something to actually offer.

In the meantime, I'll sit here watching full, pendulous breasts bounce in my mind, keeping time as I count upward...

 

[faceking]

I suppose this is a preview of the fearmongering bullshit we have to look forward to in the run-up to November this year.

So, Mr. Faceking, now that you've sufficiently shocked and scared the hoi polloi out of its naively ethnocentric stupor, what course of action are you championing?

Or were you just planning to shout fire! and gauge the reaction?

No, I just find it interesting that more time here is spent on blasting the Christian right (and deservedly because it's "closer to home")... but that pales in comparison.

I just don't see anyone scared at the thought of speaking out against Islam (this wasn't even speaking out, this was a caricature for krist's sake)...

 

[faceking]

I will ask again, since nobody seems to have the cojones to face the question:
What is the call to action?

Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that I've bought off on your assertion that there are legions of Muslims around the world who hate me and want me dead. What would you have us do?

Well, I'll tell you what Obama will do... he'll talk to them.





Great.

How about nuke the entire Middle East, pave it over, and use for overflow parking for Bonaroo.

 

[faceking]

What would face have me do when there are plenty of AMERICANS who feel the same way about me just because I am gay?

What they say, and what they do... couldn't be more far apart. Last I checked Jerry Falwell didn't stone, nor call for, anyone to be stoned to death or mutilated.

 

[deleted213967]

This is what happens when you find a staunch republican in the Bay Area. They enjoy thinking they're the maverick, underdog, rogue, whatever. Ooh, how subversive.

Wait! There is only 1 (one) radical Republican in San Francisco.

Could FaceKing be...?

No!

 

[faceking]

Furthermore.... it was home grown Christians who put Bush in power, Christians who were the staunchest supporters of the war, Christians who have overwritten habeus corpus and eliminated the right to free speech, to due process, Christians who sanctioned torture and phone tapping ( the Justice department was salted with 150 BIBLE school graduates)

Sane rhetoric (rollseyes)... eliminated free speech, overwritten habeus corpus... oh god... can guarantee you not one person on LPSG has personally experienced it. It's a reach... regardless...

50.4 million homegrown Christians voted for Bush huh? Innarestin'.

 

[faceking]

Wait! There is only 1 (one) radical Republican in San Francisco.

Could FaceKing be...?

No!

too bad I'm not a Republican... so yer theory be damned.

besides, I'm certainly not radical... so more theory caved in.

 

[faceking]

Have you consulted most Americans about their level of outrage? Are you suggesting US bomb or invade somewhere - anywhere Muslims are (lurking with intent) would do for you I imagine?

BTW, your use of nee is incorrect in this context - by proxy would perhaps be better, although no less generalised.

the "nee" was meant with regard to "response", not Muslims. "nee" being also known as or referring to.

don't need to consult , I watch the news... I see what is the top story, the choice of rhetoric by said mainstream anchors etc... it's quite easy at times to get a pulse of mainstream reaction, and since dumb America is in co-dependecy with the mainstream media. It's a rough, but safe calculation to surmise.

 

[Principessa]

Millions of Turks were in the streets last year taking a stand against a very moderate "Islamic" political party.

I may well be wrong on this but it was my understanding that Turkey was the most modern and 'civilized' for lack of a better term than many other Muslim countries. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk was very instrumental in making Turkey what it is today.

Reforms

1924 Abolition of the Caliphate1925 Abolition of the fez; suppression of religious brotherhoods; closing of sacred tombs as places of worship1926Adoption of new Civil Law code1928Introduction of Latin alphabet1934Kemal takes name of Ataturk when a new law required Turks to adopt surnames; women made eligible to vote in elections and to become members of Parliament​

Mustafa Kemal Ataturk's reforms can be summarized as follows:

• Abolition of the Sultanate and Caliphate; establishment of the Republic.
• Implementation of secularism nationwide.
• Abolition of the religious courts.
• Suppression of religious brotherhoods; closing of sacred tombs as places of worship.
• Replacement of traditional clothing by Western styles; abolition of the fez.
• Abolition of Medreses, unification of education, renovations of school programs according to contemporary and national needs, opening of new universities.
• Adoption of new Civil Law code.
• Adoption of the solar calendar and changing of the Moslem holy day of the week, Friday, into a weekday with Sunday becoming the official day of rest.
• Introduction of Latin alphabet.
• Purification of Turkish language from foreign words.
• Implementation of "Peace at home, Peace in the world" as Turkish foreign policy.

I will ask again, since nobody seems to have the cojones to face the question: What is the call to action?

Good question for which I have no good answer. :redface: In theory I guess 9/11/01 was our call to action.

Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that I've bought off on your assertion that there are legions of Muslims around the world who hate me and want me dead. What would you have us do?

I suppose we could round up all the Muslims in America and make them live in concentration camps like we did with the Japanese in WWII. We would of course deport some even though their families have been here for 70 years and they are American citizens. Lest we forget the best part! We would seize all Muslim owned businesses in the US so that when the 'War on Terror' ended they would be penniless. I'm sure Halliburton or perhaps even Blackwater has people that could run these establishments so as not to inconvenience 'good' Americans.

I don't like that idea personally. I'm just throwing it out there as an option.

Well, if you were a sweet spirit in Ewetaw, you'd build an armed bunker, load up a 2.5 year supply of food, water, and a means to generate your own electricity and hide. That's exactly what some of my relatives who refuse to acknowledge me have done.

However, the previous paragraph is, sadly, very true.):tongue:

Apparently my mom bought our previous home in 1967 because the backyard was big enough for a bomb shelter. Dad of course never built it but at least I had a great big yard to play in.

Pay attention NJ. I imagine FK posted this because Bin Laden (you know who he is right?) was threatening retribution for those cartoons yesterday. And a Danish paper republished one a month back - the very one linked to in the OP in fact. BBC NEWS | World | Europe | New 'Bin Laden tape' threatens EU

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ED5D9DB3-BC76-4BFA-B562-1D1AF6E36BBA.htm

I saw that; but I've been a little busy just trying to maintain a roof over mine and my parents heads this week. Therefore it wasn't a priority.