French candidate macron's email hacked 2 days before election

[malakos]

@malakos, i heard It at the TV; She said kinda 'Trump is not a guy Who you Can trust, he is inconsistent and change ideas from a day to another.'. don't take It Word for Word obviously, i am going by Memory.

That's fair. But I think it is true of most politicians. Most are just more smooth and subtle about it than Mr. Trump.

 

[Klingsor]

That's fair. But I think it is true of most politicians. Most are just more smooth and subtle about it than Mr. Trump.

Yes, most of them hide their falsehood by NOT LYING SO MUCH.

 

[marinera]

That's fair. But I think it is true of most politicians. Most are just more smooth and subtle about it than Mr. Trump.

Ok, but the point is : if a foreign political leader says something like that to the tv She is pretty much calling him a clown. Actually, the danger with Le Pen is that She is way more smooth and subtle than Trump and far more coherently ferocious.

 

[b.c.]

I'm not opening a discussion about whether Trump or Clinton was the worst candidate, but pointing out that both parties managed to put forward truly dreadful candidates. Come the day of the election very many Americans were voting for the least bad. This is a sad state of affairs. Very many in France today are doing just the same.

1. I disagree both were "dreadful."
2. You're entitled to your opinion.

Images of a gigantic and joyful crowd waving flags of both France and EU are warming for the heart. People knows EU has heavy faults, but hope is not dead. Let's dream Macron will be a force for a more fair and democratic European Union.

At least there is now HOPE.

 

[malakos]

I don't read her statement like that; anyway, she said colonialism had mostly positive effects, which is a scary and extremely offensive statement:

.....
In the May 1945 uprisings following the Second World War, when Algerians who had fought to liberate Europe demanded their basic human rights, the colonial government brutally massacred 15,000 Algerians. 104 Europeans lost their lives. Wiping out entire villages, throwing people out of airplanes in a campaign of fear and brutal repression, the French violence was a turning point in the Algerian struggle for civil rights and justice.

Between 1954 and 1962 over one million Algerians were killed during the war of liberation. The extent of cruelty defies belief. Whether reading Alistair Horne’s seminal A savage war of peace on the sheer barbarism, Henri Alleg’s The Question on the institutional torture centres (he saw the internal workings from painfully close up) or listening to the stories of the descendants who saw their parents brutally murdered, disappeared, tortured at the hands of – no other than – the likes of Jean Marie Le Pen. Like his daughter, Le Pen was a French Presidential candidate, and is a man known to have committed torture in Algeria.
....
https://www.opendemocracy.net/arab-...ch-elections-algeria-le-pen-and-fascism-at-he

There were statements from most of the candidates (including M. Macron) that France brought a positive civilizing influence to Algeria.

 

[marinera]

There were statements from most of the candidates (including M. Macron) that France brought a positive civilizing influence to Algeria.

You are wrong on that or should be suspicious of the source. Macron said publicly Just the few days before voting that what France did in Algeria was a Shame. Which costed him votes according to several observers - me included.

 

[marinera]

Macron, a pro-European independent centrist who several recent polls have shown to be a frontrunner, was hit by a wave of criticism this week from his right-wing opponents after he said France’s history in Algeria was a “crime against humanity.” (france24.com)

 

[malakos]

You are wrong on that or should be suspicious of the source. Macron said publicly Just the few days before voting that what France did in Algeria was a Shame. Which costed him votes according to several observers - me included.

Macron, a pro-European independent centrist who several recent polls have shown to be a frontrunner, was hit by a wave of criticism this week from his right-wing opponents after he said France’s history in Algeria was a “crime against humanity.” (france24.com)

Well, he hasn't exactly been terribly consistent. In November he did an interview with Le Point in which he acknowledged the cruelty of the French colonial regime but also elaborated on the goods that had been brought to Algeria because of it:

http://www.jeuneafrique.com/376888/societe/france-emmanuel-macron/

Sounds like he got a lot of criticism from the Left for this one which maybe pressured him to changing his tone in 2017.

 

[malakos]

Looks like we dodged a bullet. Has any whack job won since Trump? Maybe the world's voters have seen what going for an "outsider/con artist" can do.

"Whack job"? I'm assuming for you that translates to right-wing. It's only been 6 months. That's not long enough for too many "whack jobs" to be tried in national elections. I would say there is one very solid case though. The success of Mr. Erdogan's constitutional referendum.

 

[malakos]

Yes, most of them hide their falsehood by NOT LYING SO MUCH.

Over the years of observing the lies of various politicians, most lie more subtly than Mr. Trump does. Subtle lying doesn't tend to be picked up on as often as overt, unconcealed lying does. So it could be that it's not so much a difference in frequency.

 

[marinera]

Well, he hasn't exactly been terribly consistent. In November he did an interview with Le Point in which he acknowledged the cruelty of the French colonial regime but also elaborated on the goods that had been brought to Algeria because of it:

http://www.jeuneafrique.com/376888/societe/france-emmanuel-macron/

Sounds like he got a lot of criticism from the Left for this one which maybe pressured him to changing his tone in 2017.

I have heard him saying the things I linked, i have not heard him saying what Le Point wrote; It looks like a Pretty biased Journal and you Just Need to change punctuation or few words to make a polemic on something; let's say the journalist pressed : 'but do you see absolutely nothing positive in colonialism?' and what you would get would be something like 'well Yes, we built Roads, schools...'. Anyway I am not sure What point you are trying to make, that Macron is a fascist too? That he is like Trump?

 

[malakos]

a fascist too? That he is like Trump?

Are you actually suggesting that having an approving evaluation of colonialism is sufficient to define someone as a fascist? Ugh.

 

[marinera]

"Whack job"? I'm assuming for you that translates to right-wing. It's only been 6 months. That's not long enough for too many "whack jobs" to be tried in national elections. I would say there is one very solid case though. The success of Mr. Erdogan's constitutional referendum.

Erdogan was already at the power and Turkey has been a full dictatorship by enough time now. Far right Lost badly in local elections last year in italy and in netherlands few weeks ago.

 

[marinera]

Are you actually suggesting that having an approving evaluation of colonialism is sufficient to define someone as a fascist? Ugh.

I am suggesting that I have no idea of what are you trying to argue.

 

[marinera]

And yes, approval of colonialism is enough to define somebody a fascist. Ugh.

 

[malakos]

And yes, approval of colonialism is enough to define somebody a fascist. Ugh.

That doesn't even make any sense from a historical perspective. The existence of colonialism long preceded the development of fascism and didn't generally include some of the properties inherent to fascism.

 

[malakos]

I am suggesting that I have no idea of what are you trying to argue.

Simply that some emphasis on the positive aspects of colonialism appears to be something pretty mainstream in French thought rather than being a radical position of the "far-right".

 

[malakos]

Erdogan was already at the power and Turkey has been a full dictatorship by enough time now.

De facto, perhaps. But the nation formally recognizing a transition to a presidential system by a vote would appear to be a yet higher rung of success.

Far right Lost badly in local elections last year in italy and in netherlands few weeks ago.

The "far-right" in the Netherlands "lost badly"? Is that what you call it when the right-nationalist Dutch party wins 5 additional seats to rise to the 2nd place in the House?

 

[marinera]

That doesn't even make any sense from a historical perspective. The existence of colonialism long preceded the development of fascism and didn't generally include some of the properties inherent to fascism.

Because you have in mind italian fascism. Fascist ideology tracks back to greeks phylophers like callicles and probably way before. Sparta Can be considered one of the First examples of fascism. Italian fascism itself was inspired by ancient Rome.

 

[marinera]

Simply that some emphasis on the positive aspects of colonialism appears to be something pretty mainstream in French thought rather than being a radical position of the "far-right".

Every nation has issues with its own historical faults. In France fascism existed and exists nowadays anyway. Otherwise they wouldn't have Le Pen running against Macron.