Friends Out of Control

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

Hey just something that has been on my mind lately...I will the first to admit that I party recreationally socially from time to time - its the environment and industry I am in but I have a friend that seems to get out of control w/his drug use...Don't get me wrong - he is not a person that uses drugs everyday but when he does like on a weekend - he always over does it...I mean out of all the people and friends I have - and there are quite a few - he and one other are the only 2 that scare me if I am not watching them...I mean my best friend was in town - somewhat of a torchered soul - has told me that sometimes he doesn't know why he feels like he does and that sometimes when he over does it - he might be trying to subconsciencously trying to kill himself...I mean this guy is extremely good looking and has a great body, has a great career, a gorgeous girl friend, and very confident - to the point of almost cocky (women - you have to stop telling him how great he is in bed..LOL..)...But still he has really dark days - which when you think someone has it all - we all have problems...I mean he is only 25 and on multiple anti-depressants, sees a shrink, and said since he moved - being to a couple NA meetings - which I have told him I am proud of him for...Ok I might have not been the friend I should have been - because I can't say no to him...He said he wanted to go out and party since he was back in town and that he had been so good - so of course I had to take him out and his girlfriend came too...He hides his habits from his girlfriend since she is very anti-drugs and him drinking...So after they got into a huge fight at the club and she left - he got really out of control...So while we were at an afterhours party - he started to pass out in the middle of the club - this is scary - especially since I should know better than to leave him by himself...And this has happened several times before...I really don't know what to do - sometimes I want to distance myself because it is kind of the first time I have been put in this type of situation - but we do have a great connection and probably the one person we can talk about anything and not worry about being judged...I mean sometimes I think he does this to me - to see if I will take care of him like he is testing me some way but of course I always take care of him...So after I got him to my place - I couldn't take him to his girlfriends place in that condition - we were in bed and had a deep conversation to find out where this is coming from and we have had conversations about past family issues that it stems from...He was saying he has bad anxiety and abandonment issues - like he even said once he moved away from where I live - he thought about maybe distancing himself from me because he loved me and thought I would abandon him too...It was pretty sad and actually I think brought us even closer than before...Sorry for such a long post but I really love my friend - and it is a little strange for me to care about someone this much - because I didn't really come from a really affectionate family...I mean I know we love each other in my family but hardly ever say we love each other - I wish I could say it - but that is my issue...So does anyone have a friend or mate in their life that has some issues w/drug use - how do you cope or help your friend - I mean I have threatened to call his girlfriend if he didn't call me back when I know he has made an attempt on his life w/an overdose...

 

[SomeGuyOverThere]

Just before I say anything, I have not experienced such issures and have no ground level knowledge on it...

But I found the post really touching, and was wondering if you have spoken to him about it?

 

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

Definitely have talked to him before about this on numerous times...A couple of times even get a little physical like jacking him up in a bathroom stall at a club - telling him - he is out of control...But there are way to many times that I cover for him or have carry him out of the back door of a clubs so no one notices...I mean the guy is very intelligent - I mean this guy can tell you the molecular break down and effects and harms of any drug - so he definitely knows better - but he will be the first one to tell you he is fucked up psychologically - but you would not know it if you met him...Like I said it is the dark times especially when he starts drinking...And he is very open and honest w/me about his feelings and we discuss things that he and his shrink reveals...As much as I miss having him live here - we both thought it was a good decision for him to move away so he does not easily have access to drugs since he is weak - he is pretty popular in this city and people are always giving him stuff...But then he had problems in that city because he didn't know anyone there and started having anxiety problems about that...I actually had to fly to his city and introduce him to some people I knew there to help w/that and we talk pretty often on the phone...I mean I am the type of friend that will do anything for my friends

 

[godiluvabig1]

I understand how you feel... when someone you are that close to begins a destructive path, all you can really do is help whenever possible... I know that at one point in my life, I began on a similar destructive path, but quit it all when I got pregnant at age 15 (had her at 16 and gave her up for adoption... ). Sometimes in situations like this, all you can do is exactly what you have been doing, and hope he just has a scare that gets him out of it... My ex used to be really into drugs, constantly traveling everywhere for raves, doing exstacy every weekend, and popping pain killers or muscle relaxers (note, this was before I met him), until one day he and a friend came across a drug in liquid form... he drank about 20 ounces of this drug, and woke up in the hospital after having OD'ed. Now, after that experience, he keeps his drug use minimal, and stays away from the heavier drugs.
All I can tell you about helping you friend is to keep up the good work... but, try not to cover up for him as much. Your constantly covering up his drug use has him seemingly expectant of it from you. You need to get straight with him and tell him EXACTLY (sorry for shouting) how you feel about his problems. And if that doesn't work, I hate to say it, but try contacting a rehab center because what he's taking may be so addictive that he cannot stop by himself.
Good luck in this... I hope you are successful in helping your friend out.

 

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

Yeah I know you are right...I have told him that he knows he can count of me to save him so subconsciencously he takes advantage of that...One time I got really mad at him when he was begging me for drugs and told him that I know you had a fucked up childhood but you got to stop using that as an excuse...I felt bad because he said he couldn't believe I would talk to him that way and that he really loved me and really needed me...I mean I know I am bad for giving in to him but he has really bad anxiety problems and it is kind of scary...I guess I really can't relate to how he is feeling inside...And don't get me wrong he has helped me a lot too - it is not just a one-sided friendship...Like I told him this past weekend - he is a spoiled baby and needs attention and feel close to someone and hates to be alone...I mean if he crashes at my place - he has to sleep in the same bed w/me...I really don't mind because like I said it is nothing sexual at all - just he hates to be alone...Because before he got his current girlfriend - he is a very good looking guy and used his looks to sleep around alot - mostly I am sure not to be alone...

 

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

Come on guys and gals - I can't be the only one who knows someone like this...I really want to know how someone else dealt w/this...

 

[Royal_T]

Originally posted by Pene_Negro_Grande@Feb 16 2005, 02:44 AM
Come on guys and gals - I can't be the only one who knows someone like this...I really want to know how someone else dealt w/this...

[post=283507]Quoted post[/post]​

Well PNG, I dont want to depress you, but most people I have known with real drug problems have not (yet) recovered at all. My ex-brother-in-law had a lot of bad things happen to him, bu not only refused to admit to any problem, he is adamantly against getting help. He has the "i can handle it if I want to" complex. He and my sis got a divorce over it, but he was like the brother I always wanted before that went down, so it still hurt a lot.

In all my (non-expert) psych and drug-related experience, I think that :

#1 - ok, he uses drugs to feel better, but he needs to somehow admit (and believe )that the drugs actually make his condition worse in the long run, and then (hopefully) decide to use less or stop completely

#2 - I dont know his history, etc, but he might not be on the right meds, or even have a Doc that works well for him. I had a shrink b4, and I thought it was ok, but it turned out that there were much more compatible Doc's out there for me, even though the first one was probably fine for other people.

#3 - Consider that his confidence is a very-well practiced face that he puts on to make his life easier. Many people are incredibly good at appearing to be happier or more confident thatn they actually feel. If he is hiding his insecurities from most people, the best thing you can do is to keep talking to him and make sure he knows you are there for him and not leaving his life. (Much like you are doing i think)

LAST thing (sorry its so long) - He almost certainly feels like he needs other people to boost his self-esteem, but he will never be much better until he feels better about himself. Try to convey to him that he is his own person, and what he thinks about himself is more important than what other people (even his parents) think about him.

I know this is kind of vague, but its hard to be too specific since everyone is different in little ways.
Keep us updated on what happens, though.
Good luck with everything!

 

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

No TotallyCurious not vague or too long at all - you gave me so things that I had not considered before - especially about the meds thing...He has switched meds in recent months - he thought the old ones were affecting his sex drive and since he has moved a couple months ago - he has a new shrink too...And I think you are pretty right on about your other points...Thanks - this helps me alot...

 

[summertime01]

pene negro grande,
sounds like he has a co-dependent personality & suffers from low-self esteem & inferiority, too. I'm glad you want to help him, but he can drain you too, in many ways. Been there & done that!

 

[Royal_T]

PNG, I know its a hard thing to go through, and Im glad I could help even just a little. (My name changed, BTW) I meant it too about keeping us updated when something happens, if you feel like sharing.

Also, Summertime makes a good point. I probably should add two things after my first post.

First - like summertime said, you have to remember that while you are being a really good friend in being there for him, you can only do just that - help. Its ultimately his responsibility to change, and you cant blame youself for any relapses, etc. if they happen.

Second - you probably know this already, but its always good to keepp in mind that problems like his dont go away quickly, and slow, steady, meaningful progress is the best kind. So, it connects to the first point in that you shouldnt burn yourself out doing too much. (You dont sound like youre burning out, but its just safer to mention)

Good luck, and now I'll stop throwing my 2 cents at you before someone looses an eye.
<--- ahh too late&#33;

 

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

Royal T - your 2 cents are always appreciated...And I know you are right - I just feel bad when he has his bad days...I mean the reason he is so fucked up in the head is that his brother shot (suicide and not accidentally) himself in front of him when he was 16 and his brother was 17 - and he really looked up to and wanted to be like his brother...He does blame himself for it too...So in a way - I think I feel that void for him because I do look at him like a little brother too since I don&#39;t have one...I will always be there for him though...So he has some real issues to deal w/but he is trying to get help talking to a shrink and on meds - but still sometimes that is not enough for him and he likes to escape w/the drugs and sometimes knowing his past history and problems - I have a problem saying no - even though lately I have been getting better w/that...When we hung out last weekend and he got out of control - I did take some from him and wouldn&#39;t give it back and he appreciated it in the end...I love this guy to death but really have to watch him when we are together which he likes (because he is weak) and I end up not having the best time (or getting laid - LOL)...Hey but that is the kind of friend I am...

 

[Royal_T]

PNG, that&#39;s an incredibly rough thing to happen to your friend, to say the least. It does explain a lot about why he feels the way he does.
Still, on the positive side, it sounds like he&#39;s in good hands, having you as a friend.
And Im glad to hear you dont mind my 2 cents. All I can say is: anytime, man. Its a totally worthy cause.

 

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

Dude - I totally appreciate it...I thought because of our last conversation about issues he was dealing with and I told him how I felt about it and the fact that we totally slept in the same bed naked - nothing sexual happened at all and we were soaking wet from dancing all night that he would feel weird because he left town on Sunday and said he would call me on Wednesday...I didn&#39;t hear from him and thought another dark day was coming but totally feel much better since we talked earlier tonight and he was out of town for work...Everything is comfortable and cool again...But I totally appreciate everyone&#39;s input...My best friend is not just physically beautiful but deep inside at least he show that side to me and his girlfriend - he is a very caring and loving person...I mean I tease him all the time because he get so lovey dovey w/his girlfriend that it is sickening...Yeah - I was talking to a friend and his fiance about him and they personally said that they would have cut the friendship due the fact that it is too much to handle...I told them that I couldn&#39;t because I am in total support where he needs it...

 

[madame_zora]

I&#39;ve been offline for a while, but this is a subject I know a little bit about, being a recovering alcoholic myself.

First and foremost, no one recovers from drug abuse until THEY hit bottom, not their loved ones or friends. This can be extremely difficult to accept, since a caring friend wants nothing more than to help someone he loves get well, but it simply is not possible. You can be there for him and let hm know you care, but that will probably be the best you can do for him.

Second, he should be sure to let his psychiatrist know about his extracurricular drug use, as this can dramatically affect which psychotropic drugs he should be prescribed. A doctor who is in the dark cannot properly treat him with drugs. It is very likely that his core issues need to be dealt with without additional drugs, but our current medical society too eagerly seeks a drug solution to emotional issues, which leaves the root of the problem there. I&#39;m not a doctor, but opinions vary greatly here.

Last, you must be very careful in how much responsbility you place on yourself for your friend&#39;s condition. Letting him see you as his personal savior can lead both of you into a feeling of false security that can be damaging to him (as he will not take responsibility for his own situation, which is absolutely necessary for any kind of growth) and to you (as you will feel like you have failed him if he does not get well). You simply CANNOT fix another person&#33; None of us is that powerful, even though we truly wish our own strength could rescue another.

I have had many friends who deal with serious depression, and it can be a very draining experience. At some point, I have had to accept the limits of my ability to impact the lives of others, and be satisfied with sharing my love for them. What they choose to do is their own issue and my influence is not strong enough to make it my responsibility. Love is powerful, but self-love is the most powerful of all- without it, there isn&#39;t much you can do for him. I hope you love yourself enough to be able to be there for your friend without taking on the role of his personal savior. Best of luck to you, and keep us posted. Jana

 

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

Thanks Jana...Very good words of wisdom...I try not to dwell on it too much lately...I mean he does live pretty far away now so that is why I kind of worry about him being alone...But he did tell me he met some pretty cool (non-drug) users to hang out with...And I am pretty sure his shrink knows about his recretional drug use - he is pretty open about that...Will definitely keep you informed...

 

[Spork]

As Jana said: you can&#39;t make him change or help him change. He has to change himself. Let him know that you&#39;ll be there to support him if he needs help staying clean or functional, but don&#39;t help him recover when he gets out of control. That just lets him get more out of control.

It&#39;s hard to watch sometimes, but you can&#39;t fix him. Only he can do that.

 

[Freddie53]

Recreational drugs and prescribed drugs don&#39;t mix. It is easy to OD on such a mixture. Tylenol is very dangerous when mixed with alcohol. So if your friend is on anti depressents from a doctor and takes the wrong rec drug or the wrong amount, it could kill him.

You or he needs to find out what the drug interactions are for the drugs the doctor gives and the ones your friend takes for fun. It might make a difference in what he decides to take.

Unfortuntely what Jana said is true. It is true for us all. We all have a low point from which we decide we don&#39;t want to go any lower. For some, that low point is not hardly noticable. They are the fortunate ones.

The unfortunate ones have no low point at all. Those end up on skid row and there is absolutely nothing you can do unless the person decides to make a change. You can present information, you can provide assistance, you can even make it possible for them to go to drug rehap. But ultimately it is their choice. For some the low point is death. It is horrible to say that. But it is the truth.

I am dealing with this with a relative. We haven&#39;t found his low point yet. I hope we can soon. But it is the relative&#39;s low point. I have been to counseling over this. It is hard to have to face this with a person you love. but we can&#39;t make decisions for others. We can have them committed, turn them in to the authorities, pray for them, love them and try to educate them. But sadly, that is all we can do.

And we can come here for support for ourselves. And it is wonderful to see so many people here in support.

What a wonderful group of people.

Freddie

 

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

He knows the potential and dangers of drug interaction...I don&#39;t know if I mentioned it he works in medicine...He could tell you the chemical break down of most drugs and recretional drugs...He knows better, he just has some serious psychological issues...And I must say he has great days most of the time...These really dark days maybe happen every couple of months that I know of...He lives in another city now so it could be happening more often...He usually tells me but he could be covering because he knows how I feel about it...