Frisk Me Again !!!

[dreamer20]

Hello folks.

I'm back from my trip to NYC. As of Aug. 10, 06 I heard the sad news that one is no longer allowed to have anything liquid in one's carry on baggage. Even persons with liquid medications were advised to put these in their checked luggage. Before dealing with Laguardia's security screening yesterday I didn't think that they would bother to take my remnant of listerine toothpaste, a mere 20 grams in fact, but it was detected by Airport security and confiscated. I was subsequently patted down by a pleasant security agent and had to resist the urge to say "That felt good. Please do me again.":3some:

When the time came to board my connecting flight to Miami we were advised to dispose of all liquid items and that all carry on baggage would be searched again. Although this was done I considered it to be quite bizzare as we were served beverages on the flight as usual.

lol dreamer20

 

[mindseye]

Yup. Billions for war, not one cent for superior intelligence.

Aren't you outraged that even five years after the September 11th attack, our intelligence agencies still can't tell the difference between toothpaste and a weapon, or between a passenger and a terrorist?

You know, if I had $306 billion (and 40,000+ lives) to throw around, I think I'd be able to figure that out.

 

[Lex]

I don't get it. I have seen the new scanning machines work--different textures and items show up as different colors.

Also--I got fed up years ago when I figured out (afgter several business trips) that Rockport brand shoes ALWAYS go off in th emetal detectotrs now. I mean after I was basically strip-searched (lift your shirt, show us your jean button, turn the top of them down) over a pair of oxfords, I just decided I would wear as little as possible when I travel to keep from getting aggravated (and always send my shoes through the scanner).

Sigh.

 

[Mulebear]

There are so many going through thousands of airport checkpoints each day, carrying hundreds of items each, that there is no way to have a highly trained staff "weed out" unsavory individuals. The only option is to check everything.

It might seem like overkill, but if they don't do it and then something happens "Joe Q. Public" would be outraged. It's a no win situation for airport security.

I now board airplanes with sandals, long shorts, no belt, and a short sleeve shirt with long tails for a little modesty. I do carry a large backpack with lots of equipment in it and that always gets stopped for an inspection. I'm used to it.

I've been pulled aside twice for a complete bag check, pat down, and "wanding". Only once have I been asked to step aside for a more thorough check. I requested a private search and, though these guys are used to pulling people over for such things, I still embarrassed the gentleman that did the search.

He asked me a few questions while going through my backpack and carry on. "Where ya' goin'?", "Purpose of the trip?", et cetera, then he patted me down again and when he got to my pants leg he promptly turned around and grabbed my sandals, handed them to me and told me to have a nice trip.

I'm going to the other side of the world in just over three weeks. I do not look forward to the long lines I will surely encounter.

MB

 

[DC_DEEP]

What amazes me is that you can't even carry a beverage aboard with you... I mean, if you have the standard clear bottle of water, and are actually drinking it, what are the chances that it contains corrosive/dangerous chemicals or explosives?

 

[Dr. Dilznick]

What amazes me is that you can't even carry a beverage aboard with you... I mean, if you have the standard clear bottle of water, and are actually drinking it, what are the chances that it contains corrosive/dangerous chemicals or explosives?

I flew on September 11, 2002 and they made me open my water bottle and drink from it. Not a big deal.

 

[GoneA]

What I hate most is not being able to carry on contact solution. It's a very big inconvenience.

 

[mindseye]

There are so many going through thousands of airport checkpoints each day, carrying hundreds of items each, that there is no way to have a highly trained staff "weed out" unsavory individuals. The only option is to check everything.

I disagree.

Most passengers book their tickets well in advance, and background checks of these passengers can take place long before they ever show up at the airport. Check their ID to make sure they're who they say they are when they show up, and most of them can be waved through. The "weeding out" doesn't have to take place at the checkpoint. In fact, it should take place long before the checkpoint -- a long line of passengers makes a pretty good civilian target for the terrorist who hasn't been identified yet because he's still in front of the metal detector.

Standby passengers, last-minute bookers? Yes, of course, check them. The family of four who booked their trip to Disneyland months ago? What a waste it for the TSA to not take advantage of so much advance notice, and to rely instead on a last-minute inspection?

 

[mindseye]

A follow-up:

The Associated Press is reporting that some airports are taking confiscated carry-on liquids and donating them to the homeless:

Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport planned to give 11 boxes of surrendered items to the city's human services department, which will give the unopened bottles of shampoo, toothpaste and other items to homeless shelters, airport spokeswoman Lexie Van Haren said.

What's wrong with this picture?

These items were confiscated because of the unacceptable risk that they pose to air travelers, but it's acceptable to pass this risk on to the homeless? So if a homeless guy ends up brushing his teeth with gel explosive or gargling with lighter fuel, that's okay?

Clearly, the concern for the well-being of Americans is taking a backseat to the usual bluster and fear-mongering that's part of the War On Terra.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

NEWS FLASH: TSA and other security agencies suddenly grasp that terrorists might use binary liquid explosive mixtures to bring down commercial aircraft. Drinking water bottles are banned on board as a result. As if this new and revolutionary advance in explosive technology wasn't common knowledge for oh, say, decades?

Besides, I wonder if the scores (maybe hundreds) of airport workers who clean, fuel, load, and service commercial aircraft every day are subject to the same extensive scans, searches, and pat-downs on every shift change? If the family visiting Disneyland must endure searches for national security, why don't the airport workers as well?

 

[NCbear]

We are being led by idiots. Oh, wait, let me correct that: Idiots with an unlimited line of credit based on MY FUCKING TAXES.

NCbear (waxing libertarian for a moment or maybe longer)

 

[madame_zora]

A follow-up:

The Associated Press is reporting that some airports are taking confiscated carry-on liquids and donating them to the homeless:



What's wrong with this picture?

These items were confiscated because of the unacceptable risk that they pose to air travelers, but it's acceptable to pass this risk on to the homeless? So if a homeless guy ends up brushing his teeth with gel explosive or gargling with lighter fuel, that's okay?

Clearly, the concern for the well-being of Americans is taking a backseat to the usual bluster and fear-mongering that's part of the War On Terra.

Yeah, and there was some airport that was selling the confiscated items on ebay- I heard that one on the news yesterday. Of course, we're all daft if we believe that the expensive bottles of perfume are not being cherry-picked out.

It would have been so nice to believe that commons sense would have prevailed here, obviously no one is going to drink explosives. Some people need to take meds and air stewards are not always available. I can't help but believe this is more about Operation Bend America Over.

 

[hottxboi16]

Just another scare tactic used to insure our devout loyalty to our president for fear of "terrorism". Any and everything is being used to steal away our freedoms.

 

[Oncamale28]

Maybe we should just all strip down, check everyting and fly nude, lol

 

[ClaireTalon]

Water can be turned into an explosive. Crank some current through it, dissolve it into oxygenium and hydrogenium, and all you need is a little spark and then you have it, the big bang. Maybe someone found this out, and decided to ban all liquids, water included, from airplane cabins.

 

[Freddie53]

Just another scare tactic used to insure our devout loyalty to our president for fear of "terrorism". Any and everything is being used to steal away our freedoms.

That is what it is all about. George got caught on 9/11 and all this is about supporting little George.

About that family of four visiitng Disneyland. When the gay check out guy pats down the lovely and handsome 17 year old son. Not once but several times. When does child abuse come into play. How many underage boys have been molested in the lines by male guards and underage girls done the same by the women guards.?

Is the male guard allowed to continue the pat down ot the 17 year old son until some semen is produced so we can evaluate it to "make sure" that it doesn't contain explosives? Who knows the explosive material might have been placed there. All four in the family may be in on the family suicide on the plane.

Why not just do away with the rules altogether and let the guards do with each of us as they wish in public or in private?

 

[davidjh7]

Water can be turned into an explosive. Crank some current through it, dissolve it into oxygenium and hydrogenium, and all you need is a little spark and then you have it, the big bang. Maybe someone found this out, and decided to ban all liquids, water included, from airplane cabins.

THis is true, Claire. Unfortunately, almost ANYTHING, in the right hands, can be turned into a weapon. Many common things are fairly easy to covnert to an explosive device, too. THe only safe way to have passengers in airplanes, is to strip them naked, and total body cahin them in individual steel boxes for the duration of the flight. And the hell of it is I have no reasonable solution to offer....Liquid explosives, particularly TATP, the liquid explosive cited in the most recent events, has LONG been used as a terrorist weapon. It is also extremly unstable, which is why nobody but terrorists use the stuff. I guess we could put people on a shaker table, in a bomb shelter, and see if they explode.....Anymore, I am just going to avoid flying unless there is absolutely no other reasonable way, or I am required to for work or an emergency. Sometime later this year, I have a work required trip to England for a training class. I will fly then, and go as naked as possible through screening. As incompetant as the airlines are ( I used to fly ALL the damned time in my last job), I know that there is a 90% likelyhood my luggage will be lost, especially anymore. But as long as I can keep my wallet with me, and have access to an ATM machine, I know it will come down to an inconvienience at worst, unless I happen to be one of the unlucky who is on the plane with a succesful terrorist aboard. I guess ultimately, individuals, and the agencies charged with security, will forever be fighting a balancing act of convienience vs. safety. I don;t think the agencies have responded as well as they could have, but that is in 20/20 hindsight as well.

 

[ClaireTalon]

A shaker table, a great idea to test people for carrying TATP, especially since it is highly sensitive to shocks, but only has a little acute toxicity. Which is one of the weaknesses of the 'swig test', it is useless if the used chemical causes damage to the human body only in the long run or not at all, even.

I have always wondered why a ban of liquids being taken on board by passengers hasn't been discussed seriously earlier than now. There's really no reason for it, drinks can be purchased on board, and someone carrying a bag of detergents and household chemicals raises more than one brow anyways. The problem are the goods sold behind the security checkpoints by duty-free shops. These would have to be collected by the cabin crew and locked away safely for the time of the flight.

David, the knack about my water-explosive idea might be the effort it takes to produce enough detonating gas. But I remember that I've been shown the effects of such an explosion in college once, when the instructor detonated a volume the size of a small soda can, filled with hydrogenium. The bang numbed everyone in the first four rows of seats, and if I imagine this explosion happening in a small, confined space, like an airplane toilet, I think it might definitely do some damage.

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

Water can be turned into an explosive. Crank some current through it, dissolve it into oxygenium and hydrogenium, and all you need is a little spark and then you have it, the big bang. Maybe someone found this out, and decided to ban all liquids, water included, from airplane cabins.

Yeah, but water has to be electroloysed (slow, boring, needs an electrical source, hint, NO BATTERIES ALLOWED!) and you don't get that big a "bang" for the amount of gas produced as it is equivalent to the amount of hydrogen produced.

I'm more concerned that the terrorist will harness antimatter. The energy produced is pretty much E=mc2! One glassful would destroy a continent!

You want "real" power, consider Hydrochloric acid and Francium. The expolsion would kill nigh on anything.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

I have always wondered why a ban of liquids being taken on board by passengers hasn't been discussed seriously earlier than now.

That's what I meant when I snarked off about TSA suddenly learning that liquid explosives could bring down aircraft. I mean, I'm glad to see the bomb plot thwarted but liquid explosives are nothing new and I fail to understand why they weren't taken seriously before now.

Still, I strongly bet that all the terrorists have to do is try again in a few months or years when our heightened vigilance subsides and we're back to business as usual (zzzzzzzz). I don't know if anyone else has noticed but the security searchers at U.S. airport terminals are already reverting back to the low-bidder private contractors that were in vogue prior to 9/11.

In any case, I'm glad to see any policy that reduces the ridiculous amount of carry-on baggage most passengers tote with them. :smile: