Fundamentalism

[Pecker]

fund - a - men' - tal -- v. to donate money to a politician

 

[rawbone8]

fund - a - men' - tal -- v. to donate money to a politician

Brilliant! :biggrin1:

 

[Dr. Dilznick]

If you are lucky enough to visit Luxor, you will see thousands of cut off genitals on the walls of Karnak depicting those enemies killed in various campaigns. The whole place is completely phallic, and the Pharoah was ritually masterbated at dawn each new day. Why did Moses leave that bit out?

Yeah, that is odd. I mean, Moses did get the whole monotheism thing from Akh...whoops.

 

[Lordpendragon]

Yeah, that is odd. I mean, Moses did get the whole monotheism thing from Akh...whoops.

Tut Tut Doc

Aten's name is also written differently after Year 9, to emphasise the radicalism of the new regime, which included a ban on idols, with the exception of a rayed solar disc, in which the rays (commonly depicted ending in hands) appear to represent the unseen spirit of Aten, who by then was evidently considered not merely a sun god, but rather a universal deity. It is important to note, however, that representations of the Aten were always accompanied with a sort of "hieroglyphic footnote", stating that the representation of the sun as All-encompassing Creator was to be taken as just that: a representation of something that, by its very nature as something transcending creation, cannot be fully or adequately represented by any one part of that creation.

 

[JustAsking]

Tut Tut Doc

Aten's name is also written differently after Year 9, to emphasise the radicalism of the new regime, which included a ban on idols, with the exception of a rayed solar disc, ...

And later on the Pope's coopted the hat and the sceptre, didn't they? I am out of my element here, on Epyptian sun gods.

 

[dreamer20]

And later on the Pope's coopted the hat and the sceptre, didn't they? I am out of my element here, of an Egyptian sun god.

That sun-god would be Osiris. His distinctive crown of divinity and sceptre are shown in the attachment. The high cap and the hooked staff of the god became the bishop's mitre and crosier.

 

[Pecker]

That sun-god would be Osiris. His distinctive crown of divinity and sceptre are shown in the attachment. The high cap and the hooked staff of the god became the bishop's mitre and crosier.

Ra was the Sun god. Osiris was the merciful god of judgement in the afterlife.

 

[joyboytoy79]

I think what Just Asking and dreamer20 are trying to point out here is that Christianity (in this specific case: Catholicism) borrowed elements from preceding religions. In fact, all of the great religions of todays world share some symbols and ideas with other religions. The idea of one "true" or "pure" religion is a difficult sell if one is to simply study another religion and note the repetition of themes among them.

In that sense, Fundamentalism is akin to ignorance.

 

[dreamer20]

Ra was the Sun god. Osiris was the merciful god of judgement in the afterlife.

I beg to differ Pecker. Egypt had at least 2,000 dieties with more than one sun god amongst them e.g. Re. The Egyptians who worshipped Osiris believed that two contrasting forces were necessary for their existence. These forces were the generative power of the sun-god Osiris and the destructive power of his evil brother Typhon (also known as Seth). Most frequently the obelisk symbolized the former god and the pyramid the latter. By the conflict of these two deities , that mixture of good and evil, of procreation and death, it was thought this brought about the harmony of the world.

Osiris did indeed become ruler of the underworld after being killed by his brother Typhon. Osiris' son Horus ruled the world of the living after avenging his father's death. When a man died his soul would go forth to be judged by Osiris. Osiris would weigh a man's faults and virtues and decide on either a renewed life in eternity or a second death of extinction.

 

[hot-rod]

The sons that you mentioned were Ishmael and Isaac. Both were legitimate sons. Hagar fled from Sarah of her own accord, taking her son Ishmael with her, but Hagar was told to return to Abraham by an angel. Abraham's third wife, Keturah, bore him 6 sons. He had concubines that also bore children for him but both were eventually abandoned by him, see Genesis Chapt. 25 :6.

Re: the "Jewish mother" quote Both Abraham and his sister/wife Sarah were Chaldeans.

I mentioned the reason for circumcision here:
47

Is this crap suppose to have anything to do with ones salvation?

 

[tripod]

Nah, this is all stuff surrounding Moses and the Old Testament. Salvation, I think was introduced through Jesus Christ, although I don't know the judaic roots of salvation. All of this Egyptian talk has something to do with Moses being the son of a Pharaoh (I think), not a semitic baby found in the rushes, kind of a biblical conspiracy theory. I'd like our more knowledgeable members to elaborate on this if they could.

 

[dreamer20]

...All of this Egyptian talk has something to do with Moses being the son of a Pharaoh (I think), not a semitic baby found in the rushes, kind of a biblical conspiracy theory.

The Greek and Hebrew cultures were formed from Ancient Egypt's civilization which existed 2,000 years before these later peoples. Ancient Egypt has no record of Moses appearing before a pharaoh though.

Re: the origin of Moses:
Amram married his aunt Jochebed, Exodus 6 vi. 18-20. From this incestuous union the children Aaron, Miriam and Moses were produced.

Re: salvation: the Jews possibly were influenced by a religion known as Zoroastrianism during their captivity in Babylon. Excerpt from wikipedia.org:

"Zoroastrianism has been proposed as the source of some of the most important post-Torah aspects of Judaic religious thinking, which emerged after the Babylonian captivity, from which Jews were liberated by Cyrus the Great. This is also a view put forward by King and Moore, who wrote in The Gnostics and Their Remains that
it was from this very creed of Zoroaster that the Jews derived all the angelology of their religion... the belief in a future state; of rewards and punishments, ... the soul's immortality, and the Last Judgment - all of them essential parts of the Zoroastrian scheme. (King, 1887)"

See this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism


N.B. I also forgot to say that Osiris was also a saviour god.

 

[joyboytoy79]

The Greek and Hebrew cultures were formed from Ancient Egypt's civilization which existed 2,000 years before these later peoples. Ancient Egypt has no record of Moses appearing before a pharaoh though.

Re: the origin of Moses:
Amram married his aunt Jochebed, Exodus 6 vi. 18-20. From this incestuous union the children Aaron, Miriam and Moses were produced.

Re: salvation: the Jews possibly were influenced by a religion known as Zoroastrianism during their captivity in Babylon. Excerpt from wikipedia.org:

"Zoroastrianism has been proposed as the source of some of the most important post-Torah aspects of Judaic religious thinking, which emerged after the Babylonian captivity, from which Jews were liberated by Cyrus the Great. This is also a view put forward by King and Moore, who wrote in The Gnostics and Their Remains that
it was from this very creed of Zoroaster that the Jews derived all the angelology of their religion... the belief in a future state; of rewards and punishments, ... the soul's immortality, and the Last Judgment - all of them essential parts of the Zoroastrian scheme. (King, 1887)"

See this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism


N.B. I also forgot to say that Osiris was also a saviour god.

Zoroastrianism is a Persian religion and had nothing to do with the Jewish Captivity in Babylon. If you read that closer it says post-torah (meaning after the "torah" [the christian 'old testament'] was written). Zoroastrianism survives as a religion today.

 

[dreamer20]

Zoroastrianism is a Persian religion and had nothing to do with the Jewish Captivity in Babylon. If you read that closer it says post-torah (meaning after the "torah" [the christian 'old testament'] was written). Zoroastrianism survives as a religion today.

This is what I read from that link joy , notice the word during:

"Some scholars (Boyce, 1987; Black and Rowley, 1987; Duchesne-Guillemin, 1988) believe that large portions of the eschatology, angelology, and demonology (see Asmodai) of Judaism, a key influence on Christianity and Islam, originated in Zoroastrianism, and were transferred to Judaism during the Babylonian captivity (apparently 100 years before the emergence of "one god" Zoroastrianism) and the Persian era, despite the numerous structural differences in the belief systems, crucial to the faiths, as in the issue over whether the evil spirit is a product of the good spirit.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

Most of it reads like Aesop's fables to me. It is allegory (morality tales) not history.

 

[tripod]

We didn't even mention the Sumerian religion. I think this pre-dates Zoroastranism by a mile. It seems that the Sumerian, Babylonian, and Assyrian Religions are basically one and the same. With the Summerian religion influencing Babylonian, and Babylonian in turn, influencing Assyrian religion. Since the Aramaeans and Chaldeans are different names for the various peoples of Mesopotamia. Some looked to Marduk, some looked to Ishtar (who replaced the old Gods as new Gods always do). It is these beliefs that had an influence on the Babylonian captivity and exile. I think it is believed that Jesus was exposed to Zoroastranism as a young adult (widely debated amongst scholars). It is also theorized that he came in contact with Jainism and Buddhism as well. I do believe that Sumerian mythology and astral theology had a huge influence on Judaism and Christianity probably to the same extent that the Egyptians did. Actually there is a debate over the influence of Sumerian culture in the development of the Egyptian culture! That is definately one for the scholars, or my very educated peers dreamer, Joy, or LPD (sorry if I left anyone out) to answer.

 

[Pecker]

I wonder if there's such a thing as athiestic fundamentalism....

 

[B_dxjnorto]

I wonder if there's such a thing as athiestic fundamentalism....

Atheism has the status of religion in my mind. Look what the Soviets tried. They were fundamentalists.

I have to think that homicidal bombers are apostates. Don't know about atheistic though. But they have definitely left all religions by the side of their twisted road way before they blow up. Makes Communist atheism seem very reasonable in comparison, but it doesn't work well either. Kept some from killing each other for awhile. That was substantial, but the merit of state religions, including atheism are debatable.

 

[JustAsking]

I wonder if there's such a thing as athiestic fundamentalism....

Yes. PZ Myers would be a good candidate, but the more fun comes from reading the comments to his article. The problem with a lot of these scientists who are commenting on the article in that link is that they subscribe to a kind of naive epistemology from the 19th century that empiricism is the only path to eternal truth. Before you say, "whats wrong with that", I need to tell you that I am a phycisist by training. And I can tell you that science does not hold to that conceit as a rule. We discarded that early in the 20th century.

I spend a lot of time on these blogs because I am interested in the cultural wars on science. This PZ Meyers guy is a really brilliant biologist and a great popularizer of science on his blog. He is such a rabid atheist, however, that he will distort and misquote and do anything he can think of to make sure that there is nothing about religion that can be within 10 parsecs of science.

Also Daniel Dennet and Richard Dawkins come to mind. All brilliant scientists, but subscribe to a scientific arrogance that is so closeminded in its ontology that it is surely rabid atheistic fundamentalism.

What PZ Myers is pissed at here is that the Pope did not make a fool of himself as PZ predicted he might when he had that conference with a few of his advisors that included a Cardinal that was an Intelligent Design supporter. So PZ is trying to dig out anything that the Pope said after the conference that shows that the Pope is a superstitious nimcompoop. It galls him that most of the mainstream denominations have clear and definitive science-embracing and even Evolution-embracing position statements. It interferes with his daily campaign of castigating all religion.

This is basically what is called "scientism", and if anything is atheist fundamentalism, certainly scientism is.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

I agree. Atheism can be just another brand name for promiscuous ignorance shoved down people's throats.