Further Attempts at Transparency

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Lex, Sep 23, 2006.

  1. Lex

    Lex
    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Messages:
    9,536
    Likes Received:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    In Your Darkest Thoughts and Dreams
    It was not our intention to have 3 mods have the final word on the Spladle/Beautifulthings matter.

    For my part, I wanted to offer a clear explaination so that we can all be clear regarding the things that some know and the things that the mods know regarding Chase's history with the ToS.

    I'd like to offer this thread as a place where we can continue to discuss where the "lines" need to be drawn and how we can all move forward when someone who is loved by a lot of people is no longer here.
     
  2. Lex

    Lex
    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Messages:
    9,536
    Likes Received:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    In Your Darkest Thoughts and Dreams
    When someone registers a new account on LPSG, they have to enter their date of birth and agree to these guidelines:

     
  3. D_alex8

    D_alex8 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    8,602
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    As far as I am concerned, Chase was banned for having an alternative, early-21st-Century sense of net humor.

    The fact that people didn't understand his 'homophobe' comment was proof enough of this.

    It's just an extended version of the gag where a white guy asks: "Are you picking on me because I'm black?". It's a nonsense folly that plays around with stereotypes by subverting them and turning them on their head. It's a straight guy lightheartedly saying, "You hate me because you're homophobes!"... It has no hateful intent. It's just a different sense of humor than many here seem used to.

    Chase is highly intelligent and in many ways has an amazing handle on the 'contemporary', and on subverting this to highlight the ironies of current socio-cultural trends.

    Unfortunately, much of the rest of the world has yet to catch up, it seems.

    Chase used irony throughout his Spladle posts, often highlighting the stupidity of our 'human condition' in so doing.. it's not his fault that many of his targets were too dumb or entrenched within conformist thinking to understand that. Yes, it was a confrontational style, but maybe it made people think too. Or at least, it should have done. If they would only have opened their eyes a little more.

    Beautifulthings was a malicious, racist, sexist, homophobic troll who posted with venom and spite. Chase was the opposite of that. It's a shame to see them both felled with a near-simultaneous banning, which implies some kind of similarity between the two, when in fact they could not be greater opposites.

    Maybe LPSG will be mature enough for the social commentary of a Dr. Rock or a Spladle again in the future, rather than mired in a pile of recycled Red Skelton gags forevermore.
     
  4. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    4,730
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Plimoth Plantation
    I'm riding on the heels of alex's post. He's covered it all.

    I do think Spladle finally said "fuck it" and encouraged his own demise in today's display of one-liners but no one was understanding the nature of the fellow's clever inclusion in this board.

    My fear is that in the very near future (as Zora has said in her own fashion) this place will become nothing but 'ass-wiping' central with more endless posts of subjects like "Do you like the feel of the head when it goes in?" :rolleyes:

    Come on guys. Work with us here.

    It's the ones who rattle the cage like Dr. Rock who make the place interesting. Does popularity really count as much as it appears?? Of course Spladle (at his tender age) isn't going to respond well to a reprimand... but perspective folks.... perspective.....

    I beg you not to let this turn into just "another message board". The board's in a truly odd place right now and it seems vital EVERYONE be very mindful of that situation before we crucify anyone else and offer them up to hush the masses.
     
  5. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    4,730
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Plimoth Plantation
    Thanks Lex too for giving us a forum to express our opinions on the thing. The doing so is significant.
     
  6. Lex

    Lex
    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Messages:
    9,536
    Likes Received:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    In Your Darkest Thoughts and Dreams
    Your take on this is off, alex. I explained the entire timeline HERE.

    They are not similar. The simple fact is that Chase was told to stop flaming BT and we (the mods) were well on our way to banning BT. It's the first thing I did when I logged on this morning. Had he not gone back and flamed BT after he was asked not to, Chase would still be here. He self-destructed. Let's call it what it is, please.

    How many times should anyone be able to say "Fuck it, I'm not following the rules and guidelines!" before they incur consequences?
     
  7. Dr. Dilznick

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,662
    Likes Received:
    1
    Vs.

    . . .
     
  8. Mr. Snakey

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    24,702
    Likes Received:
    25
    My main concern with Chase was he even 18 years old?
     
  9. mindseye

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    5,685
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Do you find

    funny, Alex? 'Cause I sure don't. In my opinion, the twisted logic that you've used to defend Spladle over the past few days has cost you a lot of credibility.

    You claim Spladle's 'humor' is some strange new form of funny that old farts like me don't get. Who knows, maybe you're right. But our TOS doesn't make exceptions for funny. Spladle continued to abuse another member of the board after having been unambiguously warned not to do so, and we upheld our end of the warning. Whether we did or did not understand his alleged humor is irrelevant; Spladle knew how we interpreted his posts, and chose to continue on his tirade.
     
  10. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    4,730
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Plimoth Plantation
    Love you too Dilzy..

    It is possible to not like a poster and want him to remain.

    ... for instance there's you....:cool: :rolleyes:
     
  11. Lex

    Lex
    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Messages:
    9,536
    Likes Received:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    In Your Darkest Thoughts and Dreams
    What Matthew said here is really the crux of it:

    Many reported beuatifulthings' posts. One member reported a post by BT and noted "how is that any more defensible than Spladle's reactions to it?"

    Answer: It's not.

    The ToS clearly say that people are free to be racist, homophobic, etc.

    So, where does this leave us? Free speech for those we admire and like, restricted speech for everyone else? ChimeraTX, anyone?!?
     
  12. tallguypns

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,663
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    nw florida
    I dont normally like to stick my neck out. I have enough people around here with unfavorable opinions of me already. But sometimes you just have to stand up regardless of the consequences. I offer the following analogy, though flawed may it be:

    Someone opens a restaurant that serves very delicious, very nutritious, great food. The owners of The Restaurant don't even care of the customers can pay for the food. The owners only ask that the customers try not to make too big of a mess. The Restaurant garners a reputation as a fantasitic place to go where you can sate the hungers you've had and fulfil your nutritional requirements. But, as could be expected, the word starts spreading about The Restaurant. People of all sorts begin flocking to eat. Some can afford to pay; some cannot.

    The owners decide to subtly change the menu in hopes of attracting more paying customers. No one notices at first, but as time progresses and more changes are made, some of the very first, long time customers notice the food isn't as good as it once was. They decide to start seeking their nutrition elsewhere. Over time, some of the other regular members notice that the old timers are no longer coming and begin to question why. They reexamine their food and the people around them. They notice the food isn't nearly as good or nutritious as it once was. They, too, decide to no longer eat at The Restaurant.

    A few restaurant critics begin to review the place. They appear on the television talking about the type of food being served, and the general atmosphere.

    "The Restaurant is the exact sort of place you should come if you like baguettes, because there are lots of waitresses there that just LOVE serving you baguettes. In fact, you're find lots of people around The Restaurant looking to serve you their own baguettes if you'll only go home with them"

    The Restaurant is flooded with new customers now. These new customers do not understand the true nature of The Restaurant. They only know what they've heard on the television. Food fights begin to break out between the new, clueless customers, and the remaining old timers. Some customers even fake their own deaths, for whatever reason.

    As the fights continue between the new customers and the old timers, the old timers begin to get very vocal that the food is much more like you can get at McDonald's than what you used to be able to get at The Restaurant. In fact, they even begin petitioning the chefs, in subtle ways, to go back to the old style of cooking. Many of the chefs even agree that the food isn't as good as it once was. But, they're told by the owners of The Restaurant to continue cooking the new way. Most of the old timers are gone now, and what you have coming through the new revolving door is a steady stream of new customers that are only looking for a quick meal. They dont care if the meal is tasty or nutritious, but only that they've got a bit of something to eat.

    I've noticed that the food at McDonald's is about the same, but doesn't cost as much.

    Maybe it's time to ask the waiter for my check.
     
  13. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    4,730
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Plimoth Plantation
    So he said 'I want you do die' ... where exactly does it say that it's THAT particular sentiment that crosses that invisible line? Isn't that precisely the sort of candor so many call "honesty" here?:rolleyes:

    Chase added immense play and confoundment to the board.

    Weird thing is I suspect if he'd kissed mod arse just one time he'd be among us yet.
     
  14. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2002
    Messages:
    83,922
    Likes Received:
    34
    I'm the one who, upon logging on this morning and finding member complaints about his latest 'frivolity,' banned Spladle. That seems appropriate since I was also the one who gave him his penultimate board action (which was a temporary ban.)

    I also closed the Spladlethread so that any further discussion could be less centered around him an more on the board members' (and that includes the moderators') concerns.

    As long as we keep our heads we'll ultimately come out of this for the better and LPSG will be able to serve that majority of members who don't care a whit about board politics.
     
  15. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    4,730
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Plimoth Plantation
    That's helpful Pecker thanks. It makes things much clearer. I've often wondered if it's the volume of poster complaints that can result in warnings/bannings.

    Personally I've pretty much stopped using the "report" feature.

    I think even those of us who do care about board politics in as much they respresent equal application to all members (politically inclined or otherwise) want the same thing;

    To come out of the thing as you say 'for the better'.
     
  16. D_Elijah_MorganWood

    D_Elijah_MorganWood New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Messages:
    5,361
    Likes Received:
    6
    Alex's post pretty much says it all and Tallguypns clever Roman a clef underscored the situation. I've kept out of the mudslinging for a while now and haven't sounded off on this particular issue but I will now.

    I lurked for a year here before coming into the light so to speak. I've seen changes and cycles. This is the mudslinging and witch hunt cycle. Whenever this happens, people start taking things too seriously. The cliques become evident and the power trips rage. People come and go with finality, often within the space of the same day.

    Spladle was a great asset to this board. We have a cast of all sorts of characters here. I've seen other members, including myself use the same language and phrases he did. I've personally told people (on more than one occasion) many of the things Spladle did. I've told people to die on more than one occasion and felt it was appropriate. 21st Century web vernacular? Absofuckenlutely. Satire and innuendo? Yes. Immaturity running rampant? Fuck yeah.

    I agree with most of the bans insituted here but not this one. Quote anything Spladle said and I'll remind you that LPSG is a message board. Period. We can mostly police ourselves here. I came here in the first place because of the nearly total lack of censorship which I need to feel totally comfortable. I now realise why I left several months ago. This is nauseating. Ban Spladle? Give me a fucking break.
     
  17. D_alex8

    D_alex8 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    8,602
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    It's an ironic comment. He isn't telling anyone to go commit suicide. It's a means of virtual communication, telling someone he thinks they and/or their ideas are stupid. It net-hyperbole. It's all over the www. It's part of this realm.

    As for my 'credibility', I have consistently stood up here for the values I believe in and the way I perceive the world. That has not changed. If people think less of me for daring to consider Chase an insightful (ex-)poster on the basis of his confrontational, satirical style, then I really don't give a shit. Contrary to common misperception, I never came here to be popular; hell, I never intended to be more than a wallflower.

    Anyway, who's out next? Shelby? Dilznick? Because they're both excellent, confrontational pot-stirrers as well. And without them this place would be as dead as fuck. There's no point in a site where everyone agrees and mindlessly nods their head the whole time because they have no differences of opinion. Shelby, Dilznick, Spladle, and others have driven me to absolute apoplexy at times with stuff they've written.. but go back to many such threads and you'll often find a whole profitable discussion that ensued. Without disagreement, we are stuck in a non-progressive void.. the board needs waking up regularly by such posters, or else LPSG does end up in a vegetative, 'ass-wiping' state. The restaurant that used to be popular, but whose menu soon grew staid, so that people went to "Tall Guy's Burgers" around the corner instead.

    Someone who is a troll and who is removed from the boards within minutes of Spladle... do they really count as a 'member'? They were vermin. Do you wait for the police (read: mods) to come when someone has you fired up in the street and is kicking you in the shins? Of course you fuckin' don't. You get heated up and fight back. At least, that would seem to be typical human nature. Then the schmucky police come along and arrest both parties, with the more innocent of the two receiving the stiffer sentence. Yeah, that sounds about right.

    One final point à propos of a few PMs I've received: I was not especially close to Chase. He and I had exchanged 3 ultra-short PMs and a one-line email in our time here. Yes, I liked his board personality.. perhaps my humor and logic are "twisted" enough (thanks for the review, Heath, I'll be sure to mention it to the publisher of a piece I have coming out soon on film comedy to see whether we can include it as a quote on the cover, albeit in German) to have appreciated him. Perhaps the outpouring on his thread suggests that others did too.

    Did many of us think he was a 'goner' (not a GoneA, natch) the second after we saw his opening post on that thread? Yeah, for sure. Was he going to stand back, cool off, and then come back as a meek little sheep? No way, not his style. It wasn't a question of if he'd be banned, but of when. Chase wasn't one for wiping asses.

    Anyway, I'm a little pissed and a little sad that he's gone.. not for his sake, because he'll go on and be great somewhere else, so long as he makes the most of his vast potential. But for LPSG, which takes a further step towards being less of a highly-charged community, towards internet-blahness.

    I have more to post, but you're gonna have to wait while I organize myself. *can sense the smiling faces already* :rolleyes:
     
  18. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2002
    Messages:
    83,922
    Likes Received:
    34
    Aaron Burr to the dying Alexander Hamilton, just after the duel:

    "What do you mean you were only speaking to me in early 19th century virtual style?"
     
  19. mindseye

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    5,685
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Do you want our TOS to become that "particular"? A list of what may and may not be said? I claim that "consistently . . . abusive to other members" is specific enough to cover this.

    No one ever complains when we ban "Buy cheap Viagra here", but banning "I hope you kill yourself" gets first-amendment vanguards out in droves?

    Since no one has ever kissed my ass on here, we may never know.
     
  20. jeff black

    jeff black <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Messages:
    11,866
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    CANADA
    I think that in this particular case, Spladle was doing what many of us do when we encounter a troll. I have seen Zora do it, and Rock, as well as others including myself.

    We yell, scream, hit, pinch etc, trying everything to get the poster to be removed.

    Correct, Spladle has had the tendency to go overboard with his comments in the past, but this time was different.

    He was removing a troll/Flaming like others on that thread were doing. Each of us just has our own unique style. Some throw big words, some mock,some throw insults, Chase wishes people to die.

    Perhaps he should have stopped, but since he was doing what others were doing, to ban him for that particular offense (flaming BT) seems silly.
    If Chase's post flaming BT was just the icing on the cake... then that is the mods business. Not mine.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted