gangsta rap invented to encourage black on black crime??
- Thread starter marleyisalegend
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i am not speaking for him...I am simply saying, that Martin Luther King would, in fact, be ashamed, by young men black men advocating and glorifying killing other young black men, stealing from them, treating women with flagrant disrespect and these people thumbing their noses at education, work and community support and unity.
I am not presuming to speak for him.
I am drawing a very simple and accurate portrait about how he would feel, in regards to the topic as reflected by the ideals and goals that he stood so nobly for.
as far as the dr. king thing, it's funny yall mention that because a cartoon i watch had an episode where dr. king wasn't dead, just in a coma and woke up in 2008 to the very environment we're talking about. he tried holding a press conference and all the gangstafied youth there turned it into a party that lead to violence, it was pretty interesting and funny to see dr. king's reaction when "nigger" was no longer a degrading nickname but a common euphamism for friend being used by black people. that was cute. anyway as far as the blame, i'm not blaming any one person but it's foolish to think that corporations are clear of any guilt. there aren't enough black-owned business with enough power to launch gangsta rap into what it has become today, this DEFINITELY required the help of larger companies supporting these artists with deals and endorsements. it's impractical to say that the black community built this catastrophe on our own
i think something that needs to happen is better parental involvement. there's a reason kids are idolozing gangsta rappers, because their parents are out at the club or doin their own thing. hell, even if they're home that doesn't mean their parent is actively being involved in the actual raising of that child. i grew up knowing right from wrong and a million 50 cents and Eminem's won't change that, but i think today's kids are being tossed in front of a tv by their parents cuz its an easy distraction/parenting technique. has anybody seen the latest numbers for how much time kids spend watching tv as opposed to spend with their families?? its atrocious
the only people who produced and sold it were the artists, the producers and the record companies...Gangsta Rap was censored if you remember back in the early days, and was never shown on MTV in its rawest forms. BET did participate as well as many black geared and own music magazines.
I should remind you, that back in the day, gangsta rap was considered a pariah by corporations who would not touch it with a ten foot pole...lest you forget the days of "Cop Killer" by ICe T and "Fuck Tha Police" by NWA.
Gangsta Rap had absolutely ZERO mainstream support in terms of all the endorsements you speak of.
NOBODY gave gangsta rappers endorsements throughtout the 90s...it was only with the mainstream commercializing of Gangsta Rap's "nice face" with people like Puff Daddy, Jay Z, a "reformed" Snoop Dogg, and all the rest of the posers who put on the nice corporate facade that endorsements came in, and lest you forget the massive wealth of this new breed of "corporate gangsta rrappers," comes not primarily from endorsement deals, but from their music and producing empires, finding and nurturing other acts, investing in black-focused enterprises, such as clothing lines geared towards the scene among many other endeavors.
The only "deals" gangsta rap had up until the late 90s was with their record companies, for whom they produced music.
can you name the "endorsements" that NWA, Compton's Most Wanted, Cypress Hill, Onyx, Tim Dogg, ICE T, Dr. Dre, Eazy E ....and a whole host of others had, during the 90s?
of course you can't...because corporations wouldn't touch them then...
and even today, the majority of endorsement deals made, are with select artists, for select products, like soft drinks (who are also endorsed by pop and other music stars) who have mainstream appeal, and who have put on a more corporate and streamlined, hip-hop, as opposed to gangsta facade. While 50 Cent and other more gangsta types have endorsement deals...It is the PDiddy's, Jay Z, Kanye West types who have secured more of the endorsement deals, since they are pretty much considered the main sellouts anyway, with little or no actual "street cred".
you can blame corporations as much as you want, but the facts don't bear out your giant corporate conspiracy theory.
Phil Ayesho
Superior Member
Again, who said you were monolithic?
My neighbors include two black families... One pediatrician... the other a former engineer and ambassador to New Guinea.
I don't hear no rap music coming out of their homes.
But just the same... saying you are not monolithic is failing to address the fact that there is a very strong criminal subculture... over-represented in the media because it is over-represented in black entertainers...
No one is saying All blacks are gangstas anymore than anyone is saying all blacks are poor...
So what?
The question concerned rap music and its origins and effects...
Don't be so quick to defend your experience that you essentially dismiss the fact that 20% of black men will spend time in prison.
And another 20% will live immersed in the environment that creates that statistic.
I certainly recognize that part of that percentage reflect race inequality in our legal system... but that it not the issue...
The issue is that prison time and a life of crime and guns have become a COMMON experience for a large number of black communities.
They write songs about... sell the songs to those who share, or fantasize about sharing that experience... and suddenly, criminals are celebrities.
Shooting someone sells albums.
They wear fancy, identifiably criminal costumes, get grillwork and bling, and leave a life of real criminality behind to make millions romanticising the Image of criminality.
And just as every young black kid with a basketball dreamed of being Like Mike... now we have young people indulging in guns and drugs and practicing their stage presence so they, too, can be like 50 cent.
This is the core of creative expression coming from blacks in america, today... and even some successful suburban blacks, in wanting to "stay black", embrace this culture as the black community's unique creative arena...
just as they used to feel about Jazz.
I don't see a lot of black performers on television who DON'T fit this stereotype.
As far as White culpability in media?
Black people represent only 12% of the US population... that is a fairly small market to pull money out of....
If black people will buy records full of hate and violence, then the White media are happy to sell it to them.
If your creative community was producing, and BUYING, music about peace and love... that is what would dominate the airwaves.
Phil Ayesho
Superior Member
Lighten up.
Its not a racist comment... we are discussing a real phenomenon that really is originating in poor inner city black communities... that has managed to make money by commercializing the image of criminality.
Two crackers ridin the coattails of a black music phenomenon does not make white america equally responsible for rap music.
The fact that many white youths want to borrow black music because being black is cool is also a weak argument.
You want to argue it both ways, to suit your agenda... Elvis was riding a black music phenomena, too... I hear a LOT of black people make that complaint.... and now here you are arguing the exact opposite...
Rock and roll ended up being far more mainstream than rap, because, unlike rap, its message was not inherently racist.
It has taken over a decade for rap music to penetrate the white mainstream... and that still isn't a fraction of ticket or album sales.
Rap is not something being done to your communities...
Its something black Americans are choosing to do to their own community.
And its proximate cause in rooted in the black community desperately wanting to keep themselves culturally distinct from the mainstream.
Even non- criminal blacks tend to endorse and buy the hip-hop and rap products that stereotype their own race.
you must not have seen the various interviews where Snoop Dogg, Ice-T, and 50 cent and Nas all gangsta rappers, have stated that they've done numerous concerts where most of the audience was white. to say white people aren't supporting this music is gross understatement and denial.
to say that this is core creative expression coming from blacks in america is almost offensive. its the only one that gets publicized but there is much more black entertainment out there than gangsta rap
if these rappers were rapping about peace and love would the millions of white people attending their concerts still buy tickets??
a real-life example, i hate a white coworker who came over just last night asking me to hang out. i told him i was busy because in the years that i've known him all he's ever talked about is how many felonies he has (4), how many guns he buys and how many times he's been arrested. you can't ignore the fact that large white audiences are buying into this gangsta lifestyle. my white coworker is buying into the lifestyle being presented by these rappers, but may be discredited as a statistic because whenever he gets arrested for crimes like assault and robbery, his parents hire an expensive lawyer to get him out of trouble. the fact that black people are overpopulating jails doesn't mean other ethnicities aren't committing the same crimes, it does indicate that the justice system may be more prone to lock up a brotha before anybody else. are we committing crimes at a rampant rate?? yes. are we the only ones?? hell naw.
couldn't agree more. although before they shoot each other up it'd be nice if each would take out a bigot or two
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Phil Ayesho
Superior Member
Again, a reading comprehension course might be in order..
I didn't say whites weren't supporting it.
I said it took a decade to penetrate the white mainstream.
Doing numerous concerts does not alter the fact that OVER 50% of their sales, both concerts and records... are to the 12% of the population that are black.
As offensive? Again, lighten up...
ideas you don't agree with are not offensive, they are ideas you don't agree with.
Calling them offensive is an attempt to emotionally blackmail rather than come up with an actual argument.
I don't succumb to PC propriety as a substitute for reasoned debate.
I did not say rap was the ONLY creative expression from the black community... I said it was the CORE.
Its the one you SEE the most because its the one the black community endorses the most by PAYING for it.
You get what you are willing to buy.
That's how capitalism works. They put out black love ballads... and black gangsta rap... and the one that sells best gets the most airplay.
Criminy... stop trying to shift the responsibility for everything negative in your culture to someone else...
As to your real life examples... so what?
2.9% of white males will end up having served time. 2.9% of 70% of the population is a huge number. fully HALF the prison population is white.
In the black community... 20% of men will end up having served time.
20% of 12 % is also a huge number.
Nationwide... 2.9% of the population is incarcerated.
This means that white incarceration reflects the national average for incarceration.
Why is black incarceration nearly 10 times that?
I already stipulated that some of that obvious bias reflects bias in the legal system, from unequal prosecution to unequal means to defend oneself.
So what?
At the end of the day the black community is producing a very large percentage of ex-cons.
And white community is producing a smaller percentage
The black community is extolling and celebrating their men's criminal behavior thru entertainment.
I don't see a large ex-con crime music/clothing/jewelry/dentistry movement coming out of the huge white prison population.
No one here is speaking of the black community in absolutes.
I am sure there are Black people who love country music and dress like the Amish.
But they are not the one's filling stadiums for concerts.
They are not the ones starting clothing lines.
When 90% of what I see on television is reflecting this particular subculture...
its because even those NOT in that subculture are buying into it.
Or it means that this particular subculture is the majority of black Americans.
Not all.
Not necessarily you...
I didn't say whites weren't supporting it.
I said it took a decade to penetrate the white mainstream.
Doing numerous concerts does not alter the fact that OVER 50% of their sales, both concerts and records... are to the 12% of the population that are black.
As offensive? Again, lighten up...
ideas you don't agree with are not offensive, they are ideas you don't agree with.
Calling them offensive is an attempt to emotionally blackmail rather than come up with an actual argument.
I don't succumb to PC propriety as a substitute for reasoned debate.
I did not say rap was the ONLY creative expression from the black community... I said it was the CORE.
Its the one you SEE the most because its the one the black community endorses the most by PAYING for it.
You get what you are willing to buy.
That's how capitalism works. They put out black love ballads... and black gangsta rap... and the one that sells best gets the most airplay.
Criminy... stop trying to shift the responsibility for everything negative in your culture to someone else...
As to your real life examples... so what?
2.9% of white males will end up having served time. 2.9% of 70% of the population is a huge number. fully HALF the prison population is white.
In the black community... 20% of men will end up having served time.
20% of 12 % is also a huge number.
Nationwide... 2.9% of the population is incarcerated.
This means that white incarceration reflects the national average for incarceration.
Why is black incarceration nearly 10 times that?
I already stipulated that some of that obvious bias reflects bias in the legal system, from unequal prosecution to unequal means to defend oneself.
So what?
At the end of the day the black community is producing a very large percentage of ex-cons.
And white community is producing a smaller percentage
The black community is extolling and celebrating their men's criminal behavior thru entertainment.
I don't see a large ex-con crime music/clothing/jewelry/dentistry movement coming out of the huge white prison population.
No one here is speaking of the black community in absolutes.
I am sure there are Black people who love country music and dress like the Amish.
But they are not the one's filling stadiums for concerts.
They are not the ones starting clothing lines.
When 90% of what I see on television is reflecting this particular subculture...
its because even those NOT in that subculture are buying into it.
Or it means that this particular subculture is the majority of black Americans.
Not all.
Not necessarily you...
great use of cleverly constructed phrasing although it's beginning to feel a phil we may have to agree to disagree cuz i dont have the mental energy to spend all day hearing how everything i say is wrong. i'm posting to find people to relate to and converse with, not people telling me to lighten up about things that cross my mind. if im posting about it, it's because its important to me, if you're disagreeing with me on, well, just about everything i have to wonder what your motivation is for continuing to communicate with me since i'm clearly far inferior to you:wink:
Rap music has certainly influenced most youths to dress and talk like slobs...everything sagging and loose and sloppy....no one is gonna take these youths seriously and they will miss many opportunities in life because they refuse to speak or act professionally...who's gonna hire them...whos' gonna want to try to educate them when they have negative attitudes because they're 'tryin' to act hard' like some ghetto rap artist! It's sad..because you can't tell most young black men anything...they don't want to hear it....they look like circus clowns walking down the street with their pants half-way down their legs! To think that a stupid rap artist can influence some youths to walk down the street with their asses hanging out of their pants! Sad! I heard that 'sagging first started in prison when gay black men would 'advertise for sex'! I don't think many youths know this or they would stop sagging!
Phil Ayesho
Superior Member
I am not saying you are wrong... you keep telling me I am.
I have no problem with you disagreeing with me.
Mine is just my perspective... take it or leave it....
but consider it, is all I ever ask.
You are the one who asked for it.
phil, this just isn't working for me, i wanna see other people. i feel like you're smothering me, always two steps behind (or probably in front is how you'd envision it). we don't see eye to eye on a single thing, i...i just can't do this anymore honey
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