Gay guys acting "gay"

bigbull29

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BTW, the word "ghetto" has various meanings and has been adopted by many different groups of people and it does not always have an economic connotation.

Thank you for saying that.

I am not at all against using the term "gay ghetto" because that's what it is. I feel right at home there. :biggrin1:

Yes, there are many effeminate muscle men, twinks and leather daddies in the gay scene. Some of it is genetic, some of it is learned behavior. I believe the gay scene does attempt to feminize men to some degree, despite intense focus on muscles, penises and butch uniforms. Why? The male gay scene is a culture. As in any culture, we are influenced by our surroundings.

But, remember, gay men can never be women. They are no less a man than any straight man. Men are men. Period.
 

hypolimnas

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But, remember, gay men can never be women. They are no less a man than any straight man. Men are men. Period.

I once asked a womens' rights activist why she was so committed to justice for gay men. Her response was that the two issues are linked.

For the misogynist
" to be like a woman is the worst thing a man can be".

It was a revelation to me!
 

Gisella

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I would say that most of the hyper-masculine men I have met are gay rather than straight. They express their sexuality in a variety of ways. They include those who are in the military and physically demanding jobs. Some have chosen homosocial lives. I wonder how many gay people the OP actually knows? I think to be gay is to be diverse, rather than than a stereotype.

Gisella, I think you are right!:wink:

Oh wad some power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
-Robert Burns

Sometimes we have glimpses of our own self deception -Steven Pinker


Hmmm...

Yeh Hypolimnas...when we try box ourselves and have manual we have to follow, it can get hard..because we have to follow strick make sense instructions ...

Angry person is a scared person many times. Strange how we can pop up ugly like that, scare everybody away they running like crazy - when we really want have people closer to us... :rolleyes: :biggrin1:
 

Bonanza65

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boy all of you guys pounded on that guy. dont get defensive. I understand where the guy is coming from.

Alot of young adolescent boys would admit and be proud of their bi or gay sexuality if it wasnt so a stigma. And in looking back it was the very fem gay men that would stir up such feelings with all the quasi straight boys. I went to a boarding school which all of us boys from 6-12th (40 of us) never saw the fem gay man, we never saw a admitted gay man. Yet all of us sometime or other circle jerked or did stuff and we all accepted open sexuality but obvsiously discrete to any adults. now as we are grown and adults, i find at reunions when very fem gay men are seen or come upon we accept them the way they are. These negative feelings can come from adolescence when the effem behavior is frown about and disrespected by most adults. ... so boys dont want to be labelled anything that is disrepected by the adults, family or especially peers....whether its an effem gay man or a drug looser, alcoholic, thief.

i new an older gay man who had a on going sexual relationship with one of my friends from 8th grade (for the sake of conversation omitting the legal issues today that would be involved) my friend and the older guy did stuff until he was in 9th grade and his brain had developed and matured from innocence to self-indepedence. my friend by then stopped it and didnt want any more involvement and was content with it was an experience that he has guilt feeling now doing but not back then and was willing to go on with life and treat it as a curious and positive experience.... That is until he saw the same man 2 years later and instead of his masculine, mentor demeanor he had before was "flaming effem". My friend told me in 11th grade every time he sees that guy he is disgusted and regrets all he ever did with him. And even in 2nd year of college he was so pissed off at that guy. Now I being there and knowing my best friend realized that if the older guy had just maintained his masculine demeanor around this boy as he grew older, the boy would have always liked him as a friend and respected him. I dont know how this affects his sexuality. The boy choose to have the sexual relationship back in the beginning and if it wasnt with him it would have been with someone else. But i think in his mind he felt betrayed that the man turned out to be someone he would have never choosen in the beginning.

Anyway i thought i would post this for all to read and absorb and just think about the human nature of example of one guy. No judgement here. just a shared insight to the thoughts of 2 boys and 1 older gay man
 

agnslz

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And who among us has the right to decide what a man "should" act like?

Straights?

Thank you.

People are free to be who it is they are. If you've got a problem with the way some gay men are not fitting into your notions of what it is to be a man, then that is your problem to deal with, not theirs!

Make no mistake about it, homophobes really don't make a distinction between the gay couple with a dog in the suburbs and the drag queen in the city.
 
8

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i new an older gay man who had a on going sexual relationship with one of my friends from 8th grade (for the sake of conversation omitting the legal issues today that would be involved) my friend and the older guy did stuff until he was in 9th grade and his brain had developed and matured from innocence to self-indepedence. my friend by then stopped it and didnt want any more involvement and was content with it was an experience that he has guilt feeling now doing but not back then and was willing to go on with life and treat it as a curious and positive experience.... That is until he saw the same man 2 years later and instead of his masculine, mentor demeanor he had before was "flaming effem". My friend told me in 11th grade every time he sees that guy he is disgusted and regrets all he ever did with him.

================================
Wow i just watched that PBS series Frontline the other night because i was bored but it talk about sexual exploitation of young boys or something like that.

and it was basically about a guy who came into a family where the dad was dieing of cancer and the man who was 30 was a big brother to the boy 12. in the interview the boy now 20 describes what he is going through...he is a meth addict (nice looking) and in middle of interview starts crying about the past. he said the man was gay but he never knew it. the man and him start jerking off and he thought it was kewl and it wasnt till he was 14 and got a girlfriend that he didnt want to do anything else with this guy. but the guy i guess want to continue it and pressure him for more jerking and sucking he says but then one night fucked him and that screwed him up. he got major guilt feelings he said didnt want to tell his gf and became depressed and into drugs. his mom said on tv he was so involved with school and radio station and sports but then stopped it all. the mom said she was playing tennis with her boy and was mean and broke the racket and she begin crying asking him why is he acting this way and the mom said he finally said "He F'd me mom, He F;d me" of course you know then they called police and all.
but the boy on the tv says he was mad his mom called the police and wouldnt testify. he just wanted it to go away. and he said he wanted to do it with the guy so he shouldnt be arrested for it. and the police couldnt press charges. but then like that other guy said above, the boy saw the man 2 years later and the man was "a fag now acting like so little gay feminie" and the boy started crying again and said that was his final insult and so embassed and disgusted with him. He then called the police and said I want to press charges.

Im glad i watched that frontline.
i would agree if i want to do stuff with a guy i would choose a straigth guy too and wouldnt be at all too please if he wasnt straight what i thought he was. its just the way i take it all in and my self esteem

when in rome, do as the romans do or ye shall be shunned and banished by they all
 

Bryan_Lyte2

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First, Who strecthed out the board with their overly long signature (Grrr) second, appearances are always decieving.

Though I can't stand seeing a grown man act like a sixteen year old little girl, it happens. Sometimes I think of gay as a mental instability (not like a disease, chemical imbalance, or psyco string just imbalance), but only sometimes. I seem to act "gay" at random times and can't catch myself from doing it, but nobody thinks of me as flaming, just strange at times, partly because I can come off as princess peachy, at one moment, and dredge dread at others, the prior not as often. I don't act "straight acting" I'm just "straight", but as everyone knows there is no such thing as a straight line only what you think to be straight.

(O.k. now I'm going to start a rant & ramble session skip this post if you don't have time for complete randomness, and poor sentence structure). I knew in high school the queen of the school, and living in a rural area as I do there wasn't too many of his kind. I into guys tried to aviod him like the plague as if I could catch "gay" and didn't want it. Ultimately I was forced to get to know him as my social circle became his social circle, and in order to keep them I had to accept him (Bleh). While his openess was the premier reason why I disliked (hate is such an ugly word) him it quikly shifted to his being a showoff, (I strongly dislike showoffs). He would talk with a lisp, switch when he walked, twirl his wrist around when he wanted to convey a point in coversation, and booty dance like a girl on the dance floor (neeedless to say the only person ever behind him was a woman, an odd picture always). It wasn't immediately aparent, but all of his actions were natural attractions for people to stare at him, and for a showoff he got all of the attention he craved. Naturally the more atention he got the less I got, and the more upset, I was in the end. It wasn't untill he literally bested me that I got over myself and accepted him. He was in second level calculus in the honors in highschool (graduated in gold), an accomplished dancer, and his feministic demeanor gave way when his twiggy, lanky arms not only beat mine out, but a few of the football players as well in arm wrestling (he worked out more than his body showed). In the end, I respected him for being able to be flamboyent and repuslive to though on the outside, and really be someting impressive inside.

Srill...no coin has a face without an ass to ruin the whole scope. Case in point? I seem to attract feministic guys as they like the way that I can be on every shade of grey without being neither black nor white (gay or straight for those who missed it). And I've seen the selfish, concieted, flashy, spoiled, self-centered brats that are more flaming than a propane tank on fire. I'm dating one right now, and I've paid through the embarrasment, wallet, and tarnishing of social status. I don't havwe a point so I'll end on that. (It doesn't have a point and that's why it's called ranting.)
:cool:
 

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I know it's OK to be gay - so don't consider this really gay bashing, BUT...

I just don't get super-feminine gay guys. Just cause you like cock, doesn't mean you have to act like a girl. You're still a man - you still have testosterone flowing through you - it doesn't make sense.

Why oh why - someone please tell me - why do gays guys feel the need to act like girls????????:confused:

How come straight guys don't act like girls??

It just ain't the way God made things, right?
 

Nelly Gay

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I know it's OK to be gay - so don't consider this really gay bashing, BUT...

I just don't get super-feminine gay guys. Just cause you like cock, doesn't mean you have to act like a girl. You're still a man - you still have testosterone flowing through you - it doesn't make sense.

Why oh why - someone please tell me - why do gays guys feel the need to act like girls????????:confused:


Perhaps those super-feminine gay guys you refer too are so supremely confident in the sexuality that they don't need to "act straight".
I admire the likes of Boy George, Quentin Crisp, et al who stood up for their orientation ... Remember, it was the Drag Queens of Stonewall who rioted and not the truck-drivers !
Personally, I don't "get" gay men who marry and lead closetted existences ...
Straight-acting, anybody ?
 
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Matthew

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boy all of you guys pounded on that guy. dont get defensive.
I couldn't see it more differently. I saw lots of thoughtful, constructive, appropriate challenges to the OP's perspective. I didn't think people were defensive at all. Anyway, if you objected to the responses so far, you may really have a problem with what I'm about to say.
People are free to be who it is they are. If you've got a problem with the way some gay men are not fitting into your notions of what it is to be a man, then that is your problem to deal with, not theirs!

Make no mistake about it, homophobes really don't make a distinction between the gay couple with a dog in the suburbs and the drag queen in the city.
Great post, A. If you are a gay man, unless you are eating/fucking pussy, the way you act is gay-acting.

Dividing ourselves like that doesn't help anybody - it doesn't win us any more freedom, and as you pointed out, "straight-acting" gays = just some more faggots to the people who hate us. Instead, we need to unite with each other, and with everyone who has a shred of humanity, and focus our scorn on those who really deserve it: for example, the minority of guys here who are laughing and sneering at this thread right now. They're not used to a place like LPSG where gay men actually have a voice and aren't afraid to use it, and so they're often too afraid to fully assert their hackneyed, lowbrow worldviews (which of course we'd pick clean to the bones in a snap). But even a halfwit and a chickenshit can just sit back and revel in his contempt for the queers.
 

Lex

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Matthew & anglsz--thank you.

"Straight acting" is a term of self-loathing and internalized homophobia within the gay community. Masculinity is not the sole province of heterosexual men; neither is femininity the sole province of the heterosexual female.

Further, masculine and feminine are not opposites of the same continuum, but two separate continuums. We are all a certain degree of masculine and a certain degree of feminine. That is how there can be butch gay men, feminine straight men and everything in between.

Moreover, masculinity and femininity are not totally separate. They are more like Yin and Yang- interrelated and connected with a piece of the other in each.

I am a man, I am gay, and I am masculine. I have both masculine and feminine gay and straight friends and I embrace them ALL.

All the colors of the rainbow.
 

fortiesfun

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boy all of you guys pounded on that guy. dont get defensive. I understand where the guy is coming from.
Perhaps they did pound on the OP a bit, but it happens to almost all posters who start from an enormous self-privileging of their own view. These variations on the original question would get equal objection, I suspect:

Why are straight men afraid to wear tight pants that really show off their cocks?
Why do women automatically expect respect?
Why do black activists dress all African?
Why do some Latinos speak English with a Spanish accent when you know damn well they can eliminate it when they want to?
Why do vegetarians have to make a big deal out of it every time they go out to eat?

In effect, these are all just short-hand for "Why do some people act different from me?"

Sorry, but those who assume their own perspective is the "right" one, and that others ought to conform to their standards are going to have a hard go of it.

It is a tough lesson to learn, but the world is actually enormously complex, and people behave in ways they find useful for their own purposes. Sometimes those purposes are different than ours. That is just the way it works.
 

DC_DEEP

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There is much about the "stereotypical flaming gay male" that I find unattractive or annoying (in particular, what I call "the gay accent" [lisp] and "gay sign language" [flailing hands when they talk] and "gay vernacular" [calling everyone girlfriend or Mary] or the "gay look" [makeup, waxed eyebrows, rooftop hair, all-designer wardrobe]) but just because I find those things unattractive, that doesn't mean I am bigoted or that I give them a hard time about it. I just simply don't find it attractive. Yes, they are free to be themselves. No, I won't make disparaging comments about them.

Chances are, if I meet a person and either "faaaaabulous!" or Cher's latest farewell tour or Prada's new fall line or dancing at Club Chaos come into the conversation, I won't have much in common with that person. That doesn't make them either good or bad, just different and not a good match for friendship.

I'm just as comfortable working on a car engine as I am cooking; just as happy to go to a rodeo as watching a ballet; I have a tuxedo AND flannel shirts in my closet. That doesn't make me any more or less a man than anyone else, nor any better or worse than anyone else, it just makes me me. If others are OK with that, fine. If they are not OK with that, fine.
 

Male Bonding etc

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BTW, the word "ghetto" has various meanings and has been adopted by many different groups of people and it does not always have an economic connotation.

Thanks, FP. I guess I was having a Biden moment (thinking "articulate" means "speaking intelligently" and not recognizing that context can change it to something insulting). I was using "ghetto" in the sense of a "segregated neighborhood."

This comment and your defense of it later on are spot on and very astute .....in my opinion probably coming closest to explaining some gay behavior patterns! You think intently about things, don't you!:smile:

Thanks, DB9. I can say stupid things and be frivolous, just like anyone else, but I do, in the main, try to consider what I say carefully. It usually helps diffuse rather than enflame situations, and in the long run I expect education and thoughtful interactions will lead to more respect and happier lives.
 

DC_DEEP

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<...>
I was using "ghetto" in the sense of a "segregated neighborhood."
I understood that the first time around, I was surprised to see some of the responses...
<...>
and in the long run I expect education and thoughtful interactions will lead to more respect and happier lives.
We can hope, but good luck to both of us on that one.
 

NCbear

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There are also quite a few guys out there who camp it up because it's what they like to do - especially amongst younger guys who can turn it on and off. One of my buds went from raging camp queen to deadly straight driving though hicksville on the way from Miami to Key West. Now that was an eye-opener.

[...]

But isn't that what academic "queer theory" experts have been saying for two decades -- that gender is purely outward performance, and that sex and sexuality can be (and often are) something quite different from the outer appearance?

Maybe that's why I recognized Vida Boheme as a woman, emotionally speaking, in "To Wong Foo," even though intellectually I knew "she" was really Patrick Swayze in drag in a movie. [To me, the movie was like a gay drag "Steel Magnolias."]

NCbear (who unfortunately remains much more comfortable with clearly defined genders but who is learning --slowly -- to ignore gender when faced with someone who is between or outside those clear "female" or "male" characteristics, like the "Pat" character on SNL)
 

Onslow

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I know it's OK to be gay - so don't consider this really gay bashing, BUT...

I just don't get super-feminine gay guys. Just cause you like cock, doesn't mean you have to act like a girl. You're still a man - you still have testosterone flowing through you - it doesn't make sense.

Why oh why - someone please tell me - why do gays guys feel the need to act like girls????????:confused:

Oh Mary, do get over yourself and your self-loathing.

Acting gay? If a person behaves according to what they feel inside then they are not acting. There are days when I can be over the top in absurdity and that is just who I am--no acting involved. The gay guys who swish and swoosh are in many cases just being true to their inner being--no acting involved. A limp wrist does not always mean "Danger, danger! Queer approaching due east" it is just a way a person (male, female, gay or straight) holds their wrist.

Behaviors are what they are, and most are in the person and are not an act. According to you, when I get loud over sports I am 'being a man' but if I am equally loud about the latest musical being served to us, I am being feminine. How odd that you see things in such a cut and dry manner.

And what of men who get pedicures or manicures? There are lots of heterosexual men who do that, and get their eyebrows twittered with or have the gray hairs colored--they aren't gay or acting like girls even though these are activities which according to society are meant for women. (Heaven forbid a man wear a spot of makeup to cover a hideous zit or scar).
Get used to the world Pablovian, people are who they are and it ain't always an act.




Next up--women who act like men (and we have proof--they wear trousers and smoke cigars while donning their slinky negligee for a night of romance with their man)
 

RoyalT

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So, I assume a man acting effeminate would be that guy off Will & Grace?
It just seems to me as though it's all done for effect. In the show and a lot of the time in real life. Are they being themselves or are they trying to live up to some expectation/hide from their gender/sexuality? If they have many women friends, are they trying to be one of the girls? That isn't what I call being yourself.

But I have no problem with them. If that is really how they are then cool. But I don't think it is. Most gay guys, you wouldn't know are gay. The ones making a show of themselves and acting like teenage girls always seem to be trying to prove something. Do they (some of them?) put on that front because they're unhappy or conflicted on the inside? eg be the life of the party, and 'flaming' but go home and cry?

My point is...not all womanly gay men are naturally so effeminate. Some are putting it on. Which I don't agree with. I don't like to see it but there are much worse things in the world. I just think its kind of sad someone putting on an act trying to be someone they are not.
 

Male Bonding etc

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Anger comes into this a lot, methinks.

Some of the "nelliest" gays I've met are very quick to anger. Perhaps they over act the aspect of themselves that society says they shouldn't because they are so angry that ANYone would want to repress who they are. The anger and the resultant behavior are really quite understandable in that light.

I've also seen drag shows that are so funny my (facial) cheeks have hurt from laughing so much. Still, there is often an edgy anger in those performances. It's rather like, "I gotta be me, in your face... and if you don't like it, I'll be even more in your face!"

Surely a solution is to not only be tolerant, but to actively care about our fellow humans, even when we aren't attracted to their look or behaviors.

It sure beats segregation, mistreatment, anger and hatred.