Gay guys know more????

[jaimer]

Thank you for the replies, but this is kind of my point. These are all assumptions. While much of what you say may be true, I think many of your perspectives may be a bit skewed. Quite a few straight guys have experimented sexually and have discussed it ad nauseum. I'll take myself for example: Whatever I was curious about I did. No qualms, no fear, I just went for it I can be turned on physically buy a guy, but emotionally, its almost exclusively women that turn me on. Now some of you gay men will insist that I am more gay or bi than I feel I am and I guess that's because you feel you know "better"

It seems like gay guys are under the impression that you can't be straight if you've had the desire to experiment and/or have acted on it. I think that's bull. I think it can help you know exactly who you are. At the same time, you can know who you are without ever experimenting sexually. For some people, what they have or haven't experienced is enough for them.

I realize that my opinion may also be based on my view regarding sexuality. I find it interesting that everyone or at least so many people have jumped on board with the "You are born this way" train when there really is no proof of it. (I know that will not sit well with some and I apologize. My intention is not to be a jerk.) I don't feel that a baby is hardwired thinking "When I grow up I'm going to enjoy vagina. or penis." for that matter. I think the sexuality portion is more about what feels good physically. I believe we are just born sexual and our personal experiences drive us toward attraction. Our experiences cultivate our likes and dislikes. When a kid shows behaviors that are stereotypically "macho" we as a society push him toward being a ladies' man that should sleep with as many women as possible and if he accepts and finds that it feels good, those feelings have a tendency to evolve and solidify. If a kid seems effeminate, we as a society tell him he must be gay, if he accepts, the same happens to him. Grant you the latter is more difficult because the societal "push" is generally tinged with disapproval so there is generally an added desire to "fit in" but since the criteria is based on "macho" behavior, a more feminine energy male never feels like he quite fits. Since when did non-sexual behavior become such an indication of sexual desire? Since when did a love for fashion become a sign post for interest in penis? When did a love for sports become an symptom of vagina love?

My point is that we are quick to assume we know just because we feel we know; not realizing that personal experience and impulse can alter our view to be nonobjective. Children of divorce tend to have a much different view of marriage than children of happily married homes who differ from children of not-so-happily married homes, but does one of them know more about marriage? Also, are people with fetishes born that way? We are so quick to jump to conclusions about sexuality and other things because I guess we just feel we have to know. I think there is so much more to learn.

 

[D_Delbert Peecock]

Yeah, what 'ericbear' said just about sums it up.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Now that you have had an introduction, it's time to learn your craft!
YouTube - How To Spot FAKE Christian Louboutin's

I give lectures in this at Dublin City University. Man alive you can a degree in anything these days. Still nice little earner for me.

 

[BigInBellevue]

Jaimer: I have known a lot of gay men, and I would say that the vast majority are not very effeminate. The effeminate gay is a stereotype used for public consumption because it shows more clearly to the audience that the person is gay. You do run into some like that of course. There are all types of hetero and homosexuals. I think that it has been pretty well established that homosexuality is not acquired. You are right that we have much more to learn. The Puritanical view of sex has retarded growth of knowledge.

 

[jaimer]

Jaimer: I have known a lot of gay men, and I would say that the vast majority are not very effeminate. The effeminate gay is a stereotype used for public consumption because it shows more clearly to the audience that the person is gay. You do run into some like that of course. There are all types of hetero and homosexuals. I think that it has been pretty well established that homosexuality is not acquired. You are right that we have much more to learn. The Puritanical view of sex has retarded growth of knowledge.

Forgive me if my posting came across as saying that all gays or most gays were effeminate. I think if you read it more closely I was intending to make points that lessen the strength of those stereotypes.

However, I don't think that it has been pretty well established that homosexuality OR heterosexuality for that matter are not acquired. It just seems to be fairly widely believed. If there is a concrete study that you know of, please post the link because I think it would be a beneficial read.

 

[overninept5]

:scratchchin:I've weighed up the pros and cons and, on balance, I'd rather be the latter and stay a women. That way I get to keep wearing my Louboutins.:biggrin1:


Sorry honey. That is soooooooo gay. lol

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

:scratchchin:I've weighed up the pros and cons and, on balance, I'd rather be the latter and stay a women. That way I get to keep wearing my Louboutins.:biggrin1:


Sorry honey. That is soooooooo gay. lol

You do know Louboutin now does men's shoes right?

 

[nudeyorker]

You do know Louboutin now does men's shoes right?

But they are just not the same! If I ever become a pimp or a rock star I'll consider buying a pair.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

But they are just not the same! If I ever become a pimp or a rock star I'll consider buying a pair.

Hmmm I quite like the ones I've seen, I'm not sure if I'd wear them though...

 

[ericbythebay]

Forgive me if my posting came across as saying that all gays or most gays were effeminate. I think if you read it more closely I was intending to make points that lessen the strength of those stereotypes.

However, I don't think that it has been pretty well established that homosexuality OR heterosexuality for that matter are not acquired. It just seems to be fairly widely believed. If there is a concrete study that you know of, please post the link because I think it would be a beneficial read.

You are conflating behavior with identity. Being gay is not acquired, finding that you enjoy having sex with men regardless of how you identify can be.

See the APA for some clarification.

 

[maxcok]

I had to phone a friend from the Gay Police on this one. :cop: The punishment is that you have to hand in your gay badge and live life as a hetero for the next 5 days. I know! It does seem a harsh sentence. I will be disappointed if I'm not in receipt of a flurry of "nice tits, hun" PMs from you forthwith.

hmmm . . . I've had a little experience at that, I think I'll survive. I'll get to work on the PM's, but just because I'm straight doesn't mean I have to be a pig, does it? :wink:

:biggrin1: I got to 2 mins 45 secs. She's so annoying! I think it's best that I take Nudey shopping with me so he can point out the fakes.

That's probably best. Then we can meet up at some cozy cocktail lounge and have you model your purchases.

I'm considering whether to sell my mother so I can purchase these.

How much is your mother worth? Aren't those the same as these I hauled out before? If so, I found them on sale here for a mere $369USD, no tax, free shipping. Maybe we should check with the fake lady to make sure they're genuine first. *holding breath for possible onslaught of metrosexual ridicule*

 

[maxcok]

Thank you for the replies, but this is kind of my point. These are all assumptions. While much of what you say may be true, I think many of your perspectives may be a bit skewed. Quite a few straight guys have experimented sexually and have discussed it ad nauseum. I'll take myself for example: Whatever I was curious about I did. No qualms, no fear, I just went for it I can be turned on physically buy a guy, but emotionally, its almost exclusively women that turn me on. Now some of you gay men will insist that I am more gay or bi than I feel I am and I guess that's because you feel you know "better"

It seems like gay guys are under the impression that you can't be straight if you've had the desire to experiment and/or have acted on it. I think that's bull. I think it can help you know exactly who you are. At the same time, you can know who you are without ever experimenting sexually. For some people, what they have or haven't experienced is enough for them.

I realize that my opinion may also be based on my view regarding sexuality. I find it interesting that everyone or at least so many people have jumped on board with the "You are born this way" train when there really is no proof of it. (I know that will not sit well with some and I apologize. My intention is not to be a jerk.) I don't feel that a baby is hardwired thinking "When I grow up I'm going to enjoy vagina. or penis." for that matter. I think the sexuality portion is more about what feels good physically. I believe we are just born sexual and our personal experiences drive us toward attraction. Our experiences cultivate our likes and dislikes. When a kid shows behaviors that are stereotypically "macho" we as a society push him toward being a ladies' man that should sleep with as many women as possible and if he accepts and finds that it feels good, those feelings have a tendency to evolve and solidify. If a kid seems effeminate, we as a society tell him he must be gay, if he accepts, the same happens to him. Grant you the latter is more difficult because the societal "push" is generally tinged with disapproval so there is generally an added desire to "fit in" but since the criteria is based on "macho" behavior, a more feminine energy male never feels like he quite fits. Since when did non-sexual behavior become such an indication of sexual desire? Since when did a love for fashion become a sign post for interest in penis? When did a love for sports become an symptom of vagina love?

My point is that we are quick to assume we know just because we feel we know; not realizing that personal experience and impulse can alter our view to be nonobjective. Children of divorce tend to have a much different view of marriage than children of happily married homes who differ from children of not-so-happily married homes, but does one of them know more about marriage? Also, are people with fetishes born that way? We are so quick to jump to conclusions about sexuality and other things because I guess we just feel we have to know. I think there is so much more to learn.

Not really. Okay, I get it now. This thread and your long rambling posts are a roundabout attempt to justify your personal definition of sexual orientation. Like that's never been discussed here. Color me bored.

You are conflating behavior with identity. Being gay is not acquired, finding that you enjoy having sex with men regardless of how you identify can be.

See the APA for some clarification.

This. ^ I think I'd rather talk about boots.

 

[latinluva]

Yeah ya know this is a Large cock forum, and gay men would know more about sex with men as they have it more often with more partners. However, if this was a vaginal forum, gay men would probably not be able to tell you what it's like to have a vagina and to please one. Justu more experience with cocks, unless there's a female pornstar in the forum. And I think its more about knowing alot as opposed to knowing more.

 

[jaimer]

Not really. Okay, I get it now. This thread and your long rambling posts are a roundabout attempt to justify your personal definition of sexual orientation. Like that's never been discussed here. Color me bored.

This. ^ I think I'd rather talk about boots.

Nah, I don't need a justification. Just wanted to have an intellectual conversation with others to discuss an important topic.

ericbythebay - Thanks for the link. I don't think it negates my point or shows any proof of other claims, but I appreciate the fact that you support your claims. Thanks for taking it seriously.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Nah, I don't need a justification. Just wanted to have an intellectual conversation with others to discuss an important topic.

ericbythebay - Thanks for the link. I don't think it negates my point or shows any proof of other claims, but I appreciate the fact that you support your claims. Thanks for taking it seriously.

Well to be fair you started a thread asking why it's a presumed fact in some circles that gay men know more about sexuality than straight men.

Since you then proceeded to a disquisition of your beliefs about whether or not sexuality is an inherent or acquired trait Max has a fair point that you did seem to take your thread in an entirely alternative direction, a direction which it is fair to say has been well traveled on these boards. The relative importance of the issue you have redirected your thread towards is highly debatable.

 

[maxcok]

Nah, I don't need a justification. Just wanted to have an intellectual conversation with others to discuss an important topic.

ericbythebay - Thanks for the link. I don't think it negates my point or shows any proof of other claims, but I appreciate the fact that you support your claims. Thanks for taking it seriously.

You just confirmed what I said in my prior post.

Jaimer vs. APA and all the overwhelming scientific research into the definition of sexual orientation.

 

[jaimer]

Well to be fair you started a thread asking why it's a presumed fact in some circles that gay men know more about sexuality than straight men.

Since you then proceeded to a disquisition of your beliefs about whether or not sexuality is an inherent or acquired trait Max has a fair point that you did seem to take your thread in an entirely alternative direction, a direction which it is fair to say has been well traveled on these boards. The relative importance of the issue you have redirected your thread towards is highly debatable.

I agree that the post's direction did veer a bit. I think its related though. The concept of intuition, acquired knowledge, and origin of sexuality don't seem like disparate concepts to me. You are also right about its importance being relative. It was a thought I had, its an open forum, so, I just decided to post. However, getting snarky and making accusations just seem unnecessary. Max, if the topic bores you, you don't have to reply.

The original post came from the my seeing so many guys that didn't identify with being gay being told by gay guys that they were more gay than they wanted to admit, and that's just not always the case. I know quite a few people that wouldn't care about calling themselves gay if that were the best representation of who they were. This is where the talk of orientation came into play. Its seems like sexuality lies much more on a continuum than some like to acknowledge.

It seems like homosexual people are responding to the assimilation pressure of a heterocetric society by pushing back in the same way. Both sides seem to be using "studies" and "scientific evidence" (without showing it) to bully people into a side that's more favorable for their group. I think this is unhealthy and unfair for those who don't fall on the polar ends or dead center on the continuum.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

I agree that the post's direction did veer a bit. I think its related though. The concept of intuition, acquired knowledge, and origin of sexuality don't seem like disparate concepts to me. You are also right about its importance being relative. It was a thought I had, its an open forum, so, I just decided to post. However, getting snarky and making accusations just seem unnecessary. Max, if the topic bores you, you don't have to reply.

The original post came from the my seeing so many guys that didn't identify with being gay being told by gay guys that they were more gay than they wanted to admit, and that's just not always the case. I know quite a few people that wouldn't care about calling themselves gay if that were the best representation of who they were. This is where the talk of orientation came into play. Its seems like sexuality lies much more on a continuum than some like to acknowledge.

It seems like homosexual people are responding to the assimilation pressure of a heterocetric society by pushing back in the same way. Both sides seem to be using "studies" and "scientific evidence" (without showing it) to bully people into a side that's more favorable for their group. I think this is unhealthy and unfair for those who don't fall on the polar ends or dead center on the continuum.

Hmm, there's a quid pro quo though. While no one, least of all me (my 1% exists for a reason), would deny or contradict that human sexuality exists on a huge spectrum of variation, there are many who use this concept as cover for disguising aspects of themselves which they feel might earn them opprobrium.

I have many friends who would see themselves as very much in the middle sections of this sexual spectrum rather than at its extreme ends, and because I know that they live honestly and openly in the middle and don't disguise themselves with socially more acceptable terminology I respect and honour them as human beings and would never be so presumptuous as to tell them what I thought about their sexuality because I would hold no opinion of it because it is none of my business.

However I frequently encounter people who specifically identify as heterosexual who engage in sexual activities which contradict that self appellation.

Confronted with this contradiction I must presume that these individuals either do not yet recognise that they have moved somewhat along the sexual spectrum (in which case I keep my own counsel unless asked for it) or given the right kinds of evidence that they simply refuse to accept any indication that they are no longer purely heterosexual it might become clear that they are deliberately referring to themselves as something they know they are not.

Lets be clear there are absolutely undeniable social benefits in most societies in being regarded as heterosexual, and often serious problems related to being regarded as anything else. The conscious decision to deny that one is anything else when evidence clearly suggests something else is one which contributes to the notion that to be regarded as anything other than heterosexual is less desirable than being regarded as heterosexual.

From the perspective of someone who lives openly and honestly as something other than heterosexual (and therefore is prepared to deal with how society reacts to this, and who may by this very honesty be making it possible for those being less open to enjoy whatever unowned sexual practices it is they enjoy) a person who deliberately calls themselves heterosexual when it is apparent by their behaviour they are not (what ever they may think of themselves) this denial is both undermining and contributory to the circumstances which make it difficult to live openly and honestly as anything other than heterosexual.

This is why the issue of coming out is such a central one to the emancipation of people who are not heterosexual, because living openly and honestly as the person you actually are gives a clear unequivocal sign that you do not regard your own sexuality as a matter of shame, or inferiority of any kind.

Ultimately issues around sexual orientation are political, though none of us wish that were the case, and more than that they are charged with intense personal emotions related to individual experiences of a wide range of differing levels of prejudice and discrimination. I think you would therefore expect that the kind of issues you describe will arise.

I don't think Gay men know intuitively more about the sexual orientations of other people than anyone else, but many of them will often recognise when other people are deliberately deceitful about their sexual orientation in an attempt to avoid having to deal with the kind of bullshit gay men deal with, and by doing so contributing to that bullshit and compounding it.

 

[D_Coupeland Clydesdale]

Staggering.

 

[jaimer]

Hilaire - You bring up a lot of really good points and if more gay men behaved and spoke the way that you do, I believe more guys would feel less threatened by the talk of sexuality and sexual orientation.

Being abrupt, insinuating, and belittling or dismissing a person's perception of their own sexuality helps no one. I think more people need to realize that. The process is different for everyone. You are the type of person that I'm hoping more can be like. I'm sure there is a lot more we could discuss, but it seems that its not the best forum for some.