Why don't quit beating around the bush and just say what you mean? I'm not stupid. If you don't want me to reply, don't snipe at me while I'm sitting on the sidelines. "Snarky" goes both ways, you know. Fine, I'll respond to your previous post. Honestly and directly, if that's okay.
Well I probably wouldn't if you weren't taking shots at me. I think "making accusations" is a rather exaggerated characterization of my post, don't you? What I objected to was the roundabout, backdoor, and I would say disingenuous way you presented the topic - which forced you to redefine the thread when you didn't get what you were hoping for. The responses you received illustrate just how oblique (and I would say intentionally so) your presentation was from the beginning.
Why didn't you just put that out there to start with, instead of sneaking around the real topic you had in mind? Reading back over your posts, it's now clear to me what your intention with this thread was from the beginning. It was not to ask a sincere question, but rather to set yourself up to make a statement - namely that gay men have an agenda, and that they make erroneous assumptions about other men underestimating their homosexual quotient. Here, your opening post:
I wondered why you were tiptoeing around what seemed like a fairly innocuous question, and now I understand. You weren't asking about gay men's understanding of "sexuality", you were making a statement about gay men's 'erroneous' perceptions of orientation, i.e. being able to detect homoerotic interest and energy emanating from self-identified "straight" men, in short, gaydar. The fact is, most gay men, even if they have not gone through the stages themselves, have seen enough homo denial to recognize when a fella is pretending to be straighter than he really is - even when the fella isn't ready to admit it to himself. Quite often it's obvious.
This is very true, and emphasis added. Though again, it would be helpful if you could use the term "sexual orientation" when that's what you're actually talking about, rather than the very broad and nebulous "sexuality". Anyone who has an educated and honest view on the subject recognizes this continuum, myself included. The problem lies with how people self-identify, in particular self-identified "straight" men, who fail to acknowledge - even to themselves - where they truly fall on that continuum. The reasons behind their self-justifications and rationalizations have been discussed ad nauseum on this board, and since Hilaire has already addressed them to an extent, I'm really not interested in pursuing that any further. Rarely if ever do the discussions shake any of these guys out of their defensive posture of denial. On the contrary, it just seems to make them more obstinate.
You are proposing a false equivalency, and you are also fallaciously generalizing and stereotyping the attitudes of most homosexual-leaning people. Perhaps your perception derives from the unwillingness many men have to acknowledge that their orientation lies closer to the gay end of the spectrum than they want to admit. Perhaps that applies to you, and that is the real reason behind your wanting to "make a statement".
Laying out the facts and the scientific consensus is "bullying"? Give me a break.
And why did you put "studies" and "scientific evidence" in quotes? To trivialize and dismiss the science? The definition of sexual orientation is well established, and despite your statement to the contrary, the huge body of scientific research on the subject has been well presented here in many, many discussions. It consistently supports the same conclusions. So really, where is the validity in a 'discussion' that attempts to dismiss such overwhelming scientific and logical consensus, unless one is blind to reality or being defensive and willfully irrational?To recap, anyone with an educated honest view of the subject recognizes that individual sexual orientation falls somewhere along a continuum, and a relatively small percentage of people fall at either extreme. I have stated this myself many times on the board, to little effect I'm afraid. Many people, many self-identified "straight" men in particular, seem locked into their own definition, rationalization and denial, whether or not it comports with reality, and they can become quite defensive and combative when the subject is discussed. Hence, my acute boredom with the topic. It just seems pointless to waste any more time and energy on people who are unwilling to be rational and open their minds to reality - as I have most likely just done again.
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