Gay Homophobes

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by Gillette, Oct 14, 2006.

  1. Gillette

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    Are closeted gay men jealous or resentful of openly gay men?

    I ask this because of an instance that happened recently. A few weeks ago while standing outside with some coworkers we saw a gay couple kissing in a back parking lot. They weren't making a big show of it, just showing the natural affection you would expect to see in a relationship. I thought it was sweet, most of the others looked then carried on with their conversation. One guy, however, made a big stink about how offensive he found the display of affection, "That's so gross","Get a room"," Jesus christ do I have to watch this?", etc.

    The irony I found in this is that I have long suspected this guy is gay himself despite the fact that he has married a woman. I admit my gaydar is weak, but jazz hands? C'mon.

    As of four days ago my gaydar has been confirmed. His wife caught him having sex with a man. The marriage is over and now he is openly embracing his new boyfriend in front of the world just 3 weeks after bitching about seeing someone else do the same thing.

    WTF?

    Was it jealousy that made him so vitriolic before?
     
  2. dong20

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    Maybe, I can't speak for Gay men but like much human interpersonal behaviour I don't suppose it's cut and dried. I can imagine that a straight guy may feel jealousy on some level if he saw a beautiful woman kissing a guy he thought was unsuited to her (i.e. not him!) and transpose that into some form of resentment. When I was younger I may have felt the same, turning that jealousy into resentment and/or mock outrage when in reality I simply wanted to be him. :wink:

    On the other hand it could be that he simply dislikes public displays of affection, many do. I have to say there have been occasions where I've felt marginally uncomfrotable when a couple have been getting it on in a major way next to me on a train say, I'm never sure if I should enjoy the show or pretend it's not happening, it's like involuntary voyeurism!! In this case I suspect the former rather than the latter, combined with some repressed anger from 'conformed' for so long thrown into the mix perhaps?

    In either case I doubt I'd speak out about it so vehemently though.

    PS...what are Jazz hands..?
     
  3. DC_DEEP

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    No, dear, he's just an asshole. A self-loathing asshole. The fact that he's gay isn't really the issue; he knew he was gay and wanted everyone in the world to suffer for it. Including his ex-wife.
     
  4. Gillette

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    I don't think this is it as he and his boyfriend have been showing copious PDAs since he's been outed, and the original PDA he was bitching about was actually relatively private ( back parking lot of a small business ).



    Jazz_Hands_Tutorial
     
  5. dong20

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    I agreed, from what you said that this was more likely but I don't like to reach snap judgements. Jealousy has the potential to screw up the best of us! :smile:

    Thanks....now I think about it I've heard it before..:biggrin1:
     
  6. Sklar

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    I think jealousy sums it up nicely.

    In the closet, he hated public displays of affection.

    Out of the closet, he embraces it.

    let me tell you from experience, life got much easier for me once I came out of the closet.

    I was never a self loather but it did feel like the weight of the world was lifted from my shoulders.

    And I see that quite a bit from others who have come out of the closet.
     
  7. DaveyR

    DaveyR Retired Moderator
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    I have seen this scenario many times over the years. I like to call it deflection. If they make a fuss about what others are doing it deflects attention away from themselves. It is also meant to make others think "he cannot possibly be gay reacting in that way". The problem is for these guys is that most people are getting wise to this tactic and can see through it like a plate glass window.
     
  8. Gillette

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    I guess that I should specify what the jealousy is about.

    I'm wondering if closeted men are jealous of the fact that an openly gay man no longer has to hide who he is and can therefore live and celebrate his life without the self-censorship that a closeted man would impose on himself.

    Do closeted gays resent the emotional freedom of those who are openly gay?

    Thanks Sklar and Daverock, that's what I was thinking.
     
  9. dags

    dags New Member

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    Both I think Gillette, and such drama you have had at work lately! You know that kind of thing really gets my drawers in a twist. You would have thought this guy wanted to stay closeted, as such he should have stayed still when you all witnessed the PDA. HELLO! Peoples lack of intelligence continues to precede them. Like Roseanne said "The squeakiest wheel needs the grease" AND THEN only a few weeks later after making such a stink HE get busted? LOL Its like whatever. Thanks for the post I needed a good laugh.
    Seriously though. I think closeted men are still dealing with thier own issues about themselves and thier feelings, and for some its a very difficult struggle. I did'nt experience that struggle when I came out, I just did'nt feel I had to make excuses or justifications to anyone. Thats just me and my family situation, but I know some really have a hard time.
    I've known one or two closeted or questioning guys in my day and for them their experience is very real and scarry. I seem to be the goto person, dont ask me why, probably because I am a different type of person. I have one guy I used to work with seven years ago who I have been communicating with who is still struggleing to come to terms with his sexuality.
    I feel bad, but hey we all have struggles and lessons to learn here on our journey. "If you dont get the lesson you will repeat it untill you learn it." Additionally I have to say there are alot of Bi-sexual people who still feel they have to choose one road or another. And some people just want to experience both sexes. I truly wish Bisexuality was the norm and some people just seem to lean towards one gender or another but it was'nt such a big deal people has to classify and label everyone to understand it. I think it would be great to happen to be dating a man or a woman at any particular time, Love does'nt care about gender anyway.
     
  10. AndrewEndowed24

    AndrewEndowed24 New Member

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    This hypothesis is too obvious and intuitive to possibly be right:smile:
     
  11. NCbear

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    Gillette,

    Before I came out I was extremely jealous of straight couples for the PDA they could enjoy without anyone thinking anything of it. I'm talking about holding hands, walking around arm in arm, sitting side by side with their legs touching, and other signs that two people are really intimate and in love.

    Do I appreciate people trying to suck their partner down their throat in public? Or kissing so deeply it might as well be horizontal? NO, regardless of their orientation. I'm one of those who say, "Get a room!"

    But back to your topic: Yes, I've seen this phenomenon often. In fact, I'm seeing it now (drained of most of the homophobia, but keeping a lot of the pretensions toward heterosexuality) in a guy who my BF and I know from the gym.

    We both think he's gay or at least bi-curious because he tends to stare at our crotches--at length, no pun intended--when we're in the showers at the same time. We also saw him at a Friday night block party downtown this past summer with a rather effeminate man (we both thought the other guy was openly gay). But our acquaintance deliberately didn't look in our direction and pretended later not to have seen us--and his reason for going to the block party was "looking for girls." Yeah, and I'm a representative of the government and I'm here to help you. Unh-hunh. Whatever.

    But as my BF explained to me, we're forgetting how we felt when we were deep in the closet and tremendously fearful that anyone might guess our orientation. Hell, at that time I wouldn't cross my legs with one knee over the other because I thought it might "look gay," and I made sure I wouldn't let my wrist dangle, because that'd be literally "limp-wristed." I flirted with as many girls as I could to try to hide the fact that I was really not interested in them in that way. And the BF is still closeted enough that he doesn't want to do anything that makes us look like an openly gay couple in public (but I'm working on that).

    On a more serious note, we're also forgetting that physical affection between men can attract amazingly negative reactions, including violence and murder. The learned pathology of homophobia is still that strong.

    So yes, there do continue to be good reasons why someone might choose to be closeted; I recognize those as valid reasons, even though I believe the benefits of being out (and being honest about who you are and whom you love) are more compelling and, ultimately, more self-affirming.

    NCbear (having a philosophical moment)
     
  12. dags

    dags New Member

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    Exactly!
     
  13. pacificfiveoh

    pacificfiveoh New Member

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    Funny that this thread was created because just yesterday I had this conversation with two girls i work with. I work in the biggest gossip mill created by man. Its so funny!

    To get along with my story, I was trying to explain to them that there are gay people out there that really cant stand other gays. Me being very close to being one of them. I really cannot be around flamboient gays.. it makes me really uncomfortable and cant really explain why. I just dont want any unwanted negative attention brought to me for something like that.

    But, while I support my fellow gay rights etc... Im a gay homophobe to a certain extent.
     
  14. SomeGuyOverThere

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    My considered opinion (wow, that sounded pompus), is that some people who resent an aspect of themselves, will attempt to make other people resentful of that aspect too. They try to spoil other people's positive opinion of whatever it is they opress.

    For example, at school, being called a "wanker" was an insult, and a big one, used very often. Now, how many of the idiots who ran around calling one another wankers were actually going home and having one off the wrist and feeling resentful about it afterwards?

    Probably most if not all of them.

    Similarly, I think that a lot of the most strongly homophobic people are those who have failed to come to terms with their own homosexuality, and are resentful of it, so they want to make other people resentful too, often without realiseing it.

    I think one of the biggest problems facing society is guilt - we have too much of this religious, guilt tripping claptrap, which is designed to make people feel guilty about themselves and seek forgiveness in Church. The guilt in this case lands mainly with the Roman Catholic Church, and also with the Reformists like John Knox. Even though society is more secular than it has been, I think the guilt enforced by the church still stains it greatly.
     
  15. Rikter8

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    I wouldn't classify it as Jealousy.

    I feel incredibly Uncomfortable around effemminate guys.
    I don't like the cold stares people give, and I feel like a Target.
    Guilty by association.

    I dated a guy, was really cute, and at home he was "normal", just his normal voice, typical guy.
    When we got out to shopping or to eat, he turned into the Flame of Notre Dame instantly, flinging his hands about as he talked, and with a LOUD lisp.

    Living in a conservative state, with no laws to protect, and limited police, anything can happen.

    I think the Gay community needs to turn down the Flame a bit, and extinguish the hetro community's common perception that all gay men are nelly queens that dress up like women and drive cutsie cars. (At least here thats what they think)

    Once the community proves itself (Which we are most capable of doing), and the cheezy cliche's are gone, Flame on.
     
  16. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    No. Not jealousy.

    Fear of being "found out" is what I suspect was at the root of his reaction.
     
  17. Gillette

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    I've had this conversation at work as well with the same consensus. My coworker finds the screeching queens as irritating as nails on a chalkboard, which does describe the speaking voices of some I've talked to. I think it's the difference between being who you are and broadcasting it on high volume.

    Could this be considered a form of overcompensation?
     
  18. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    Could what be a form of 'over-compensation'? -being flamboyantly effeminate?

    Well let's put it this way; If belching and farting in front of the television set in a three-day-old tee shirt and stained underwear watching a football game of a Sunday afternoon is a form of "overcompensating" for wanting to appear extremely straight then I say yes.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    Of course it isn't!

    Newsflash:

    Gay folks come in as many variations as straight ones... :rolleyes:

    Are you people for real?
     
  19. Gillette

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    I'll take that yes since I consider your given example to be extremely obnoxious behavior as well. Being offensive or irritating is just an easy way to create a superficial reason for people not to like you rather than exposing your real insecurities.
     
  20. GoneA

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    Yup, I agree. Y'know, "the loudest talkers ...".
     
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