Gay is a choice... NOT!

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Rugbypup, May 14, 2009.

  1. Rugbypup

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  2. BikerBear

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    Couldn't agree more.... I've known all my life that I am gay. Can't stand the female genitalia (smell, feeling, appearance, etc.) and, yes, I've tried it. Don't get me wrong, I totally enjoy being around my female friends (straight & lesbian); I just can't get my head around have sex with them.
     
  3. overninept5

    overninept5 New Member

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    WELL KNOCK ME OVER WITH A FEATHER!:biggrin1:
     
  4. musclemonkey5

    musclemonkey5 New Member

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    Yeah.. w/e. They only ran this test on 90 people both women and men. At most it only suggests that the brains of men with artistic abilities more resemble a woman's, and lesbians whos brains are more wired like a guys resemble of course a guys more. This has nothing to do with being gay and everything to do with fitting in as gay.
    Sorry, but 90 people doesn't even suggest anything. I hope even people who do believe it is not a choice can see that.
     
  5. Joll

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    Hmmm
     
    #5 Joll, May 14, 2009
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  6. Rugbypup

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    Nothing to do with being gay and more to do with fitting is as gay?

    I'm sorry, what? Care to explain that? Kinda reads as utter horse shite on first glance?
     
    #6 Rugbypup, May 14, 2009
    Last edited: May 14, 2009
  7. eddyabs

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    If someone becomes aware of my sexuality, and asks...'so when did you choose/decide to be gay?'...it never fails to wind me up the wrong way. I KNOW for a fact that I was born this way....and I knew that it would be only a matter of time before science discovered the truth.

    90 adults tested....half heterosexual, half homosexual.....in every single case, volumes of the cerebral hemispheres were symmetrical in homosexual men and heterosexual woman....ALSO...the scientists also found that homosexual men and women showed sex-atypical connections in the part of the brain called amygdala.

    That's pretty much conclusive....more brains will be scanned, and my suspicion is that the results will keep coming back the same.

    Good news.
     
  8. StrictlyAvg

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    I seem to recall from the BBC doc that Dr Robert Winston presented that boys are genetically programmed to NOT like girls very much - and girls likewise for boys - until the hormones kick in to trigger adulthood that is. So to say gay is programmed from birth is not going to be easy to see. Even once those hormones kick in, where you settle on the scale still may not be clear for a few more years. Your ability to change your environment to better live how you want will usually improve as you move to adulthood - that's where choice comes in as your growing up environment may be hostile or even dangerous toward your orientation.

    But it's not a lifestyle choice like whether to own a dog or do the recycling - that's a ridiculous notion. Societies where the most stringent penalties i.e. death, exist for homosexual acts (or indeed hetero adulterous acts) still don't stop it so it is an extremely strong piece of programming.
     
  9. freeballing

    freeballing Active Member

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    Who chooses to be gay? With all the hatred, bigotry and homophobia that comes along with it... If it were a "choice" then everyone would "choose" to be straight. Socially acceptable in school growing up. No fear of being kicked out of your home or beaten up because you're gay... The special-privilege to marry... Having kids the old fashioned way... No sexual discrimination at work or Church...

    Anyone who still thinks it's a choice, is living in denial of basic human behavior...

    No, 90 people isn't an accurate sample for any scientific study. But seriously, how much science do you need to accept the obvious?
     
  10. D_Jerry_Atric

    D_Jerry_Atric Account Disabled

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    Yikes! I have no idea what some brain scan would say about me and my sexual orientation! Let alone scientists who are forever looking for ways to categorize and classify people. I'm not that easily classified and I know that makes some people nervous which I do not care about.

    Also what would such studies or brain scans say about people who are bisexual, people who are not heterosexual, lesbian, or homosexual, someone who has a sexuality that revolves around fetishes/Sadism/masochism, people who fall into multiple sexual orientations or none of them at all, people who are asexual, or people who are solosexual?

    I don't see sexuality as a choice, since it's so infinite in the ways I wrote above.

    More Brain scans need to be done. Anyone up for one? <g>
     
  11. B_Bonky

    B_Bonky New Member

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    The people who think sexual orientation is somehow a "choice" are the same people who think there's no such thing as global warming. They're living in la-la land. Fortunately, the vast majority of those folks are older and becoming more and more elderly every day. In another generation, acceptance and understanding of homosexuality will be much much higher.
     
  12. Deno

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    If only, I never would have chosen such a lonely life.
     
  13. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Oh, Deno. This makes my heart hurt.
     
  14. crescendo69

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    I wonder what the bisexual scans are like?
     
  15. Wish-4-8

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    What would it matter in the end. Acceptance is acceptance. I think homosexuallity can be an aquired taste if given the right social context. In ancient Greek times, society accepted it so I think it would have been easy to at least "experiment". Or like trying a cigar. You either like it or you dont, but at least you try it.

    Then there are all the "lesbians" or bisexual chicks in porn. In that environment, women learn to like it, or at least convince themselves they do.

    Then there are the guys who live in an isolated area away from even the thought of anything homosexual, (ie the Bible Belt), and dont understand the feelings they have. (being gay). They dont want it but cant help who they are.

    The point being, if you accept in one context, you have to accept in all contexts, and the argument is moot.
     
  16. Steve26

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    One of my earliest gay (and out) friends said something similar during our freshman year of college. It's a pretty powerful rebuttal to the claim that homosexuality is a "choice."

    Steve
     
  17. B_Think_Kink

    B_Think_Kink New Member

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    Please tell me you have enough brains to know that it's not a choice.
     
  18. MarkLondon

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    I'm suspicious of these brain scans and the gender-stereotyping ideas they ironically support. i.e. gay men are feminine, dykes are masculine. What about the butch homos and femme lesbians, how do they fit in? And what about the frot guys? Not to mention the bisexuals and married men who have sex with men.

    However, the bizzarre reasoning behind the "choice" idea is that you are going for the easier option. That you, as a gay man, could choose to be heterosexual and get married, but because you can get loads of hot promiscuous no-strings gay nookie all the time (as if it was that simple, lol), you don't. Which also implies that straight people are straight by choice too. And if straight people are only straight because they choose to be, then they must all naturally be bisexual, at the very least.

    I think it's wise to remember that the very ideas of gay and straight are recent social constructs, only invented in the late 19th century. And although I did embrace those ideas in the past, I've come to see that human sexuality is a lot more complex than two polar opposites (male/female), or even two polar opposites with a minority mirror image (gay/straight).
     
  19. karldergrosse

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    This type of testing on brains is by now old news, despite the article's claim--was done at least once two or three decades ago, with reports in the popular media. Essentially the same conclusions. [Can google it.]
    - - - - - - - -
    At a get-to-know-gays event I once heard a couple of young guys claim to nongays that they had definitely made a conscious choice. Thereupon I couldn't resist explaining to the listeners that they had just heard a load of BS. The only choice involved--repeat, the ONLY choice involved--is whether or not to act upon one's orientation. The orientation itself is in no way, form, or fashion a choice. One may choose to accept the fact of his gayness or to deny it, but he is still gay and still never made a conscious decision. Whether homosexual orientation is established in the womb or soon after birth in very early months/years I wouldn't venture to speculate--but the person himself never makes a conscious choice. I knew that I was somehow attracted in a mysterious way only to men (and their "equipment") at a very young age, though with no notion of just what that attraction was or of its significance, long before I had any real concept of sexuality of any kind.

    There's no explaining this, of course, to religion fanatics who insist, and probably have been brainwashed actually to believe, that it's a choice. That gives them divine permission to carry out their saintly [psychologically devastating!] duty to "cure" and "save" the poor ignorant sinners from their own willfully chosen satanic lusts. But to doubting or dubious nongays of supposedly goodwill and open mind, I always pose one simple question: "Okay, if I could choose to be gay, how easy would it be for you, as a straight person, to do the same?" Answers vary, but sadly always come down to one defensive denial: "Well, I couldn't do it, of course, but..."

    But what...? Where now are goodwill, open mind--and good sense...?
     
    #19 karldergrosse, May 14, 2009
    Last edited: May 14, 2009
  20. karldergrosse

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    Notes and further musings:

    Bonky, Many thanks and congratulations! You're one straight guy with his head on completely straight!!! You certainly are not one of the majority of nongays that I refer to above. Too bad all straights are not as intelligent and sensible as you...!

    Wish-4-8, You're obviously thoughtful and of friendly good will, too, and I cordially salute you for that. However, just to clarify, I believe that the specific examples you give would more accurately be described as opportunistic adaptation to a given situation than as "acquired taste." Thus they do not, I submit, support in any way a supposition that sexual orientation can be a matter of choice.

    As for Greek civilization, pederasty as a mentoring arrangement was certainly accepted and even encouraged, but I doubt that sexually it meant mere short-lived "experimentation" and nothing else. It was not at all mandatory, so there must have been genuine sexual enjoyment involved (witness the many vase paintings of male-to-male activity) in addition to personal/civic responsibility. For obviously it is quite possible to train and educate adolescents to become responsible, mature citizens without fucking them! I am convinced that the Greek system realistically acknowledged and accommodated what we would now, in our historically late, "modern" view and terminology, label bisexuality. Kinsey, to the shock and surprise of many a good burgher, posited a continuous scale of presumably inborn human sexuality. Just scanning the profiles of LPSG members and their "percentages" of orientation lends a good deal of credence to his theory.
     
    #20 karldergrosse, May 14, 2009
    Last edited: May 14, 2009
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