Gay marraige is NOT the issue!

vince

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The trouble is that very often the disruption over orientation in a workplace comes from people who can't handle the simple fact that another person is openly gay. I saw it in a company from the UK that supplied us with carbon fibre structural fabrics. One salesman outted himself by talking about going to some event or the other with his boyfriend and a couple of his colleagues started to harass him and lobby for his dismissal because his being gay might effect sales. They were successful and that is why I used the past tense "supplied us with". We dropped them and do business with a French supplier now. So they were right, because it did impact their sales and I do everything I can to see to it that it continues to do so.
 

PhillyPrick

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Since when is it professional to discuss sexuality in the workplace?

To be blunt being gay boils down to sexual preference, and it is never acceptable to discuss sexuality in a workplace environment. Gay, Bi or straight, if you make sexuality a dominant topic, you're canned. And you don't get to play the "They fired me because I'm gay" card.

You sound like you have never worked a day in your life.

Since when is being openly homosexual the same as discussing sexuality in a work place environment?

Your basically saying that having a photo and talking about weekend plans with your husband and wife is sex talk.

It's not. It's normal office conversation and is not sexual at all. It happens all the time:

If a woman can say "My husband and I are going to Atlantic city for the weekend."

A man can not say "My husband and I are going to Atlantic City for the weekend."

A man can display a picture of his wife on his desk.

A woman can not display a picture of her wife on her desk.

You see what I'm getting at? None of the above is sexual, it's called normal workplace chat. A homosexual person has to hide who they are or get fired. That means a fake office photo, and a fabricated story. Living a lie.
 

Klingsor

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I think sillystring is onto something. His point is, you should keep your homosexuality entirely out of the workplace so that it remains a secret. Similarly, none of your co-workers has the right to confront you about it directly.

Of course, if someone *does* happen to find out that you're gay, by whatever indirect means, you have no protection against being fired for it.

If I had to come up with a name for this admirable policy, I think I would call it, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
 
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sbat

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I think sillystring is onto something. His point is, you should keep your homosexuality entirely out of the workplace so that it remains a secret. Similarly, none of your co-workers has the right to confront you about it directly.

Of course, if someone *does* happen to find out that you're gay, by whatever indirect means, you have no protection against being fired for it.

If I had to come up with a name for this admirable policy, I think I would call it, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

If you want to get to the second floor of a building from the first and the elevator is out, you have to take the stairs. Let's say in this building there are 24 steps per flight of stairs. It's not possible to jump directly to the 24th step from the 1st, right? Similarly, if you live in a society with all sorts of emotional confusion about sex and sexuality, you can't go from religious intolerence to acceptance in one step.

Don't Ask Don't Tell is like step number 7. When you're on it, you know you're getting there, but you still have a ways to go. Just like racism or sexism. First you stop the physical violence/persecution. Then you work on acceptance, then you get to your goal, equality.
 

Klingsor

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If you want to get to the second floor of a building from the first and the elevator is out, you have to take the stairs. Let's say in this building there are 24 steps per flight of stairs. It's not possible to jump directly to the 24th step from the 1st, right? Similarly, if you live in a society with all sorts of emotional confusion about sex and sexuality, you can't go from religious intolerence to acceptance in one step.

Don't Ask Don't Tell is like step number 7. When you're on it, you know you're getting there, but you still have a ways to go. Just like racism or sexism. First you stop the physical violence/persecution. Then you work on acceptance, then you get to your goal, equality.

Fair enough. I just found it more than a little odd to hear someone essentially advocating Don't Ask Don't Tell in the workplace after it's been decisively repudiated and overturned in the military.

We may have a ways to go, but we're further along than *that*. :smile:
 

PhillyPrick

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I think sillystring is onto something. His point is, you should keep your homosexuality entirely out of the workplace so that it remains a secret. Similarly, none of your co-workers has the right to confront you about it directly.

Of course, if someone *does* happen to find out that you're gay, by whatever indirect means, you have no protection against being fired for it.

If I had to come up with a name for this admirable policy, I think I would call it, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

I can't believe what I'm reading here. Why do you think people should be completely closeted in the workplace? When people are discussing weekend plans with significant others, the homosexual has to keep their mouth shut so as not to offend anyone?! 40 hours a week?

If you are disgusted that gay and lesbian people exist and work at the same place as you, that's your issue, not theirs.

It's not like having pictures on the desk, or talking about weekend plans is going into graphic detail about sexual acts.

if any person, whether homosexual or heterosexual says something like "I'm going to stick my ____ into his/her ____" THATS unprofessional. that should not be discussed in the workplace.

But people have a right to say "I'm going to the concert with my boyfriend this weekend, here is a picture of us on my desk" without it being a huge issue that they could get fired for.
 
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sbat

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I can't believe what I'm reading here. Why do you think people should be completely closeted in the workplace? When people are discussing weekend plans with significant others, the homosexual has to keep their mouth shut so as not to offend anyone?!

If you are disgusted that gay and lesbian people exist and work at the same place as you, that's your issue, not theirs.

It's not like having pictures on the desk, or talking about weekend plans is going into graphic detail about sexual acts.

if any person, whether homosexual or heterosexual says something like "I'm going to stick my ____ into his/her ____" THATS unprofessional. that should not be discussed in the workplace.

But people have a right to say "I'm going to the concert with my boyfriend this weekend, here is a picture of us on my desk" without it being a huge issue that they could get fired for.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Klingsor, but I think he was being tongue in cheek with the Don't Ask Don't Tell comment.
 

Klingsor

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I can't believe what I'm reading here. Why do you think people should be completely closeted in the workplace? When people are discussing weekend plans with significant others, the homosexual has to keep their mouth shut so as not to offend anyone?!

If you are disgusted that gay and lesbian people exist and work at the same place as you, that's your issue, not theirs.

It's not like having pictures on the desk, or talking about weekend plans is going into graphic detail about sexual acts.

Sigh . . . I guess I've got to use this guy :wink: every time I mean to be taken ironically.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Klingsor, but I think he was being tongue in cheek with the Don't Ask Don't Tell comment.

Yes, thank you. :smile:
 

sbat

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Fair enough. I just found it more than a little odd to hear someone essentially advocating Don't Ask Don't Tell in the workplace after it's been decisively repudiated and overturned in the military.

We may have a ways to go, but we're further along than *that*. :smile:

Perhaps you are right.
 

ravenx

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I could be wrong , but I think PRESIDENT OBAMA could sign an Executive Order to disallow such actions.

HH

Only as it applies to government work/government employees, which he did. He cannot mandate this of private employers by executive order.
 

sillystring

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You sound like you have never worked a day in your life.

Since when is being openly homosexual the same as discussing sexuality in a work place environment?

Your basically saying that having a photo and talking about weekend plans with your husband and wife is sex talk.

It's not. It's normal office conversation and is not sexual at all. It happens all the time:

If a woman can say "My husband and I are going to Atlantic city for the weekend."

A man can not say "My husband and I are going to Atlantic City for the weekend."

A man can display a picture of his wife on his desk.

A woman can not display a picture of her wife on her desk.

You see what I'm getting at? None of the above is sexual, it's called normal workplace chat. A homosexual person has to hide who they are or get fired. That means a fake office photo, and a fabricated story. Living a lie.

I said if you make it a dominant topic in a workplace environment, that's unprofessional. If you make being gay/straight/religious a disruptive factor to the job you were hired to do, you have no right to complain about being dismissed.

I'll obviously concede that there are employers out there that will dismiss a person on no other grounds than discovering their sexual preference. Some good examples were posted here. That is wrong in every sense of the word and should be fought. No professional should be denied a job because they espouse views differently than their employer.

Now if you want to take what I wrote and apply a label to me and lump me into some hateful bigoted group, that's your intellectual loss. You miss the boat on what I am saying entirely and I'm not going to distinguish your drivel with a reply because you're not worthy of one.

(this is not applied to the person I am quoting presently, I actually think you took what I said well outside the context of my meaning which is why I am reiterating my stance to you. Minus the ignorant quip about me not working a day in my life, I appreciate your view).
 
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redneckgymrat

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Taxation authority lies with Congress, not the Executive branch, but he could get on TV and press for hetero couples to get no special treatment, or all couples to get the same tax breaks.

At which point he'd be channeling Ron Paul, who has been saying this for most of his career.

Rock. Meet "hard place."

It boils down to this. If Obama actually believed in it, he could wrangle a way to make it happen...as opposed to merely using it as an election year issue.

Several here *have* voiced well-reasoned cautions since, love him or hate him, he *is* ultimately a politician trying to get reelected.
 
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Thedrewbert

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Since when is it professional to discuss sexuality in the workplace?

To be blunt being gay boils down to sexual preference, and it is never acceptable to discuss sexuality in a workplace environment. Gay, Bi or straight, if you make sexuality a dominant topic, you're canned. And you don't get to play the "They fired me because I'm gay" card.


You mean like the picture of me and my husband I have on my desk?
 

sbat

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Taxation authority lies with Congress, not the Executive branch, but he could get on TV and press for hetero couples to get no special treatment, or all couples to get the same tax breaks.

At which point he'd be channeling Ron Paul, who has been saying this for most of his career.

Rock. Meet "hard place."

It boils down to this. If Obama actually believed in it, he could wrangle a way to make it happen...as opposed to merely using it as an election year issue.

Several here *have* voiced well-reasoned cautions since, love him or hate him, he *is* ultimately a politician trying to get reelected.

There's no doubting he could. If he made that his Waterloo, he could make it happen. Then he'd have no chance at all of re-election.
 

tamati

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Taxation authority lies with Congress, not the Executive branch, but he could get on TV and press for hetero couples to get no special treatment, or all couples to get the same tax breaks.

At which point he'd be channeling Ron Paul, who has been saying this for most of his career.

Rock. Meet "hard place."

It boils down to this. If Obama actually believed in it, he could wrangle a way to make it happen...as opposed to merely using it as an election year issue.

Several here *have* voiced well-reasoned cautions since, love him or hate him, he *is* ultimately a politician trying to get reelected.

id have no problem repealing the tax break married couples get....( and the spousal medical privileges too:rolleyes:- "oh sorry ma'am you cant go in to see your husband, you are not direct family.")
 

joyboytoy79

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Thanks for the comment Thedrewbert. Keep reading, the book doesn't end at chapter 1.

So far, it does in fact end at chapter 1. You have failed to address the heterosexuality that is rampant in even the most conservative of workplace settings. Wedding rings - you say you don't notice them. Good for you. I do. Does that mean they're inappropriate in the workplace? Should heteros be prohibited from calling a significant other while in earshot of their co-workers, even if they're on break? Should company events, such as picnics and holiday parties, exclude spouses?

Everything I've described is a commonplace display of heterosexuality. Until you start advocating for the abolishment of all of that, your argument comes across as very one-sided. You can say the same thing many different ways, but that doesn't mean you've said more.

So please, give us chapter 2, and if you are unwilling to do so, stop taking offense to people reading what you're writing.
 

sillystring

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So far, it does in fact end at chapter 1. You have failed to address the heterosexuality that is rampant in even the most conservative of workplace settings. Wedding rings - you say you don't notice them. Good for you. I do. Does that mean they're inappropriate in the workplace? Should heteros be prohibited from calling a significant other while in earshot of their co-workers, even if they're on break? Should company events, such as picnics and holiday parties, exclude spouses?

Everything I've described is a commonplace display of heterosexuality. Until you start advocating for the abolishment of all of that, your argument comes across as very one-sided. You can say the same thing many different ways, but that doesn't mean you've said more.

So please, give us chapter 2, and if you are unwilling to do so, stop taking offense to people reading what you're writing.

So until I advocate from your position I am incorrect? Hardly. And I don't take offense, I just know my OP is the first one he read and the first one that illceted a response. I advised him to keep reading and see if my position was clarified.

If you make this aspect of yourself a disruptive factor in a professional environment, and you are let go because of that....you're out of luck.

Point out to me where I said you cannot have the trappings of a gay person in the office? And don't cut a single line of text out from a paragraph to misrepresent what I am saying and suit the needs of your topic.

I don't think anyone should be let go simply because of their beliefs, their sexual practices or the gum they chew. I've said that several times in this thread. When it happens it should be fought with all the vigor and conviction that any injustice to human dignity should emote.

If you're expecting me to advocate everybody getting along and accepting each other, you're in La la land. It would be nice if that could happen, but it isn't going to happen.

I agree with your point about removing the trappings of heterosexuality as a way of balancing the scales but that's not even remotely feasible. Talking hypotheticals is alright in the interim, but change comes in gradual steps from within. If it is forced from without it becomes a much longer process in the key aspect of change, the minds of the people.
 
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Klingsor

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. . . change comes in gradual steps from within. If it is forced from without it becomes a much longer process in the key aspect of change, the minds of the people.

Is that why we no longer have "whites only" hotels, drinking fountains, and restrooms? Because change came in gradual steps from within?

Check your history.