Gay Marriage from the (Mostly) Straight Perspective

Do you support marriage rights for gay citizens


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Perados

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Well, I know quite a bit of US-Americans living here in Switzerland who maintain their language, celebrate Thanksgiving etc. but told me they would never go back for good.

I only can confirm... Some of my best friends are americans and none of them will return to the usa... Maybe its cause they are all "artists" and thats why they like the sosiety freedoms in europe more then their home culture...


About marriage and same rights... Why should two persons who desite to live together get benefits??? These is no spezial reason for this

I dont think that any marriage should get any benefits in tax system or money support... There should only be support for people who desite to get a child

About the rights for your partner in case of desise or death they should stay and count for every partnership the same...
 
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wappingite

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I only can confirm... Some of my best friends are americans and none of them will return to the usa... Maybe its cause they are all "artists" and thats why they like the sosiety freedoms in europe more then their home culture...

Having lived in both the US and Europe, I can confirm that the US has just as many Europeans there to find themselves and start a new life, and they aren't particularly keen to return to Europe. I think it's really more about wanderlust or maybe rebellion that fuels that kind of sentiment.

There are pros and cons in terms of freedom living in both places that make it difficult to place into categories or sound-bites, but as a gay man, I know I have many more freedoms in Europe than I would in the most US states where I would be a second class citizen.

I also know many Americans in London who don't want to go back, but it's for a variety of reasons....but there are also many Americans who move here to work and bitch constantly about how things are different and never stop wearing chinos with sneakers and bad fitting suits.
 

SR_Dee_Zasther

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There's a lot of things that I think could be done better in the U.S., particularly after the past ten years of mostly backwards political and social progress. But at the same time, I love my country, and I truly believe that the United States is one of the greatest nations in history; we're just not always the greatest. But whether you love the U.S. or not, there's no denying that what the U.S. does makes an impact on the rest of the world, and we are indelibly linked with the ideals of democracy and freedom, even if we fall short of those ideals at times. It's because of that that I'm so passionate about and involved in politics (particularly the gay rights movement) because victories for social justice and equality here will ripple around the world. That said, it's an uphill battle right now, and it's going to take decades to undue the damage of the past 40 years of conservatism/corporatism in this country and make us a country that Americans can be proud of again.
 

Perados

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There's a lot of things that I think could be done better in the U.S., particularly after the past ten years of mostly backwards political and social progress. But at the same time, I love my country, and I truly believe that the United States is one of the greatest nations in history; we're just not always the greatest. But whether you love the U.S. or not, there's no denying that what the U.S. does makes an impact on the rest of the world, and we are indelibly linked with the ideals of democracy and freedom, even if we fall short of those ideals at times. It's because of that that I'm so passionate about and involved in politics (particularly the gay rights movement) because victories for social justice and equality here will ripple around the world. That said, it's an uphill battle right now, and it's going to take decades to undue the damage of the past 40 years of conservatism/corporatism in this country and make us a country that Americans can be proud of again.


If you would have asked me 20 years ago if i would like to make it in the usa i would propably say yes... But america moved at some theams to a very conservativ side. And after 2001 you offered to mutch freedom for "the elusion of more safety". In spezial the right of privat data...

Yes america has a huge influenc on the world. Thats in a lot of parts good but sadly arent our culturs strong enough to not addopt all the negativ desitions... Our gov also try to cut our right of "privat data self destination"




The rights for gays are another problem. They arent perfect in europe or america.

But i think homosexuals also should get the right for a child. Yes it can be problematic for a child at shool... But thats a soziety problem. As long as we say thats not "natural" it wount be.

And what is natural? Till more then 20000 years we define by our culture what is natural. With the first pic in a cave WE define what is natural. And for more then 1000 years in europe only one "standard" position was "natural" at sex... cause the pope defined it
 
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Klingsor

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Marriage rights no problem, divorce rights as well (the most painful), but no adoption rights kids have a right to have a father AND a mother - sorry but mother nature didn't plan for homosexual procreation.

I know you're trolling (again), but couldn't you at least come up with something more current? It's legal in all fifty U.S. states for gay couples to adopt children.

So I guess the only conservative position left is that it's OK for a gay couple to raise a child as long as they're "living in sin" while they do it. :smile:
 

dandelion

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Some of my best friends are americans and none of them will return to the usa
maybe that explains it. Seemed to me your spoken english is pretty good but the difficulty is writing it down.

I dont think that any marriage should get any benefits in tax system or money support... There should only be support for people who desite to get a child
Living in an overcrowded country I reckon there should be taxes on children.
 

Perados

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maybe that explains it. Seemed to me your spoken english is pretty good but the difficulty is writing it down.

Living in an overcrowded country I reckon there should be taxes on children.

Yes as i sayd... Writing is my main problem

I dont think that realy overcrowded countries give couples any benefits :biggrin1: useually a hunger disaster every dekade solves that problem:mad:
 

dandelion

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I would rather not resort to killing people to reduce the population. I would hope to solve the problem by persuasion before that point.

Marriage rights no problem, divorce rights as well (the most painful), but no adoption rights kids have a right to have a father AND a mother - sorry but mother nature didn't plan for homosexual procreation.
Hmm. What is your objection? In the Uk there is apparently a shortage of adoptive parents. You would rather the kids rot in council care? The statistics say it is approaching a guarantee of a life of crime if they do.

I love my country, and I truly believe that the United States is one of the greatest nations in history;
Some friends of mine who are chrisitans once commented to me on a story I was telling them, about someone invoking God to cure the perceived failings in another while missing their own failings. I found it interesting my friends agreed this other person had rather missed the point of christianity. It seems appropriate to mention this, because one of the apparent failings of the US is religious fundamentalism. Something it abhors in others. I suppose if pushed I would say I love my country too, but I would never put it like that. When americans say it, it appears to be the national religion, that the US is better than anywhere else. I certainly do not believe that about the UK. The US seems extraordinarily unaccepting of anything different. It isnt even comfortable about its own variety.

there's no denying that what the U.S. does makes an impact on the rest of the world,
For the last 100 years or so, yes. A small period of time in human history?

and we are indelibly linked with the ideals of democracy and freedom, even if we fall short of those ideals at times.
A country riven by civil war over slavery which has yet to reconcile itself to equal rights for everyone regardless of race, already mentioned religion, sexual diversity, cultural differences? Yes, very proselytising for 'the American way'. Happy to enforce it militarily on the rest of the world.

I am sceptical about the degree of democracy in the Uk, and indeed in the US. The US government is designed to be incompetent, but the way it has turned out now it pays little attention to the majority of its citizens. A democracy is meaningless if it does not represent the will of those people. American democracy was designed to be powerless exactly to prevent it intervening in the lives of its citizens. Such as the right to own slaves, but the right to be rich and the right to starve penniless. In this modern age, no sensible national system of healthcare?

it's going to take decades to undue the damage of the past 40 years of conservatism/corporatism in this country and make us a country that Americans can be proud of again.
Sounds as though you may agree with me. My problem is how can a country as good as you believe it to be do what you say it has done? What makes you think it has now gone into reverse?
 
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